CO

I haven't had a chance to read through the whole thread, so someone probably has talked about this point.  The biggest problem of the third movie is they are usually running out of ideas and make too many nods to the original movie and it comes off as cheesy.  People like me always roll my eyes, "Been there done that!"

Back to the Future III is a perfect example of this.  Now BTTFIII is an OK sequel, but they have the typical 'Marty wakes up next the Lea Thompson character and doesn't know what year it is...."  or "Marty had to evade Biff or Griff cause he insults him and Biff/Griff usually ends up in horseshit.

I think the reason of this is the writer feels you know the characters at this point, so they know its an easy laugh to bring up something from the original movie just in a different setting in the 3rd movie. 

I love HDTV, I love BluRay movies, as I just don't get what you guys are watching??  Are your TV's HDMI ready, cause I know alot of older HDTV's don't have that option.

I still have a few channels on my cable lineup that are still standard , and I honestly can't even watch them anymore.

The irony is if Lucas stayed with the supposed Kurtz Jedi version which is not 'as happy' as the movie ended up being, I probablyl wouldn't have liked it at the time when I was 10 years old in 1983.

But the movie would have aged better, and the overall story arc from SW to Empire to Jedi would be a much better story years later.  As a kid, I wanted all the heroes to survive and have one big picnic at the end on Endor, but seeing the movies now, a bittersweet ending that has alot of subtext would have made Jedi and the Trilogy that much better today.

doubleKO said:

CO said:

doubleKO said:

I've been wrong about everything lately. I just hope I am wrong about the MIAMI CHEAT winning the NBA Championship. Wrong thread, I know... wrong again :(

 I'm predicting Mavs in 6, it's Dirk's time to win a title!

^ Win. Hope you had some money on that CO!

 I picked the Heat in 6 in 2006, and didn't bet either series!  -:)

From what I have read that 3D/HDTV's are not selling well, and I honestly think it is a fad in theaters right now and will be an afterthought in 5-10 years.

I don't blame the movie studios for trying to increase revenue anyway they can, because they are essentially a business that looks at its bottom line.  But this is masking a larger problem in the industry that movies overall just aren't as good as they were 10-20 years ago and they have to try anything get people in the theaters.

As great as a job Kersh did with ESB, I am always weary when a fan says that the next sequel of that series he directed would be a slam dunk.

Jurassic Park is a classic directed by Spielberg, but Jurassic Park II is a horrible movie (IMO) also directed by Spielberg.

Lethal Weapon series gets ALOT worse with Richard Donnor directing all 4 movies.  The original is great, part II is a very good sequel, but part 3 is OK, and part 4 is really awful.

Many fans say Jedi (or the PT) would have been better if Kersh directed, but you just don't know.  Classic movies in Hollywood are very rare, so the easy bet is that they probably can't duplicate the greatness of the previous movie.

Bingowings said:

 

While the CGI makes some of the concepts in those films easier to render I am tempted to think that some of the sequences were built around the ability to make those images rather than to illustrate the story in the best way possible.

The water tendril in The Abyss looks good to this day but is it necessary to the story?

Terminator 2 (putting aside my belief that it wasn't that good and not at all necessary) sometimes used CGI to make core story concepts possible but like The Abyss was often used to tediously show off what was then possible and shoe-horned it into the story.

 But The CGI aspects of the Robert Patrick character do make the movie better, simply because it shows the difference between the Arnold Terminator Model, and a new advanced Robert Patrick Terminator model.  So in that sense, Cameron succeeded because you are seeing the technology of the Terminator right in front of your face.

Now of course Cameron, Spielberg, Lucas, etc, all want to use the CGI to show off something new to the fans, but Cameron doesn't go overboard in T2 and The Abyss where the movie becomes a videogame with actors.  They use CGI specifically to tell the story better, and I have no problem with it.

I'm sure we have all talked about this before, but Coruscant is a CGI environment that looks exactly like the real environment from Bladerunner.

T2 and The Abyss are perfect movies where CGI makes them better, but does not overtake the movie.

The Prequels are loaded with CG and just looks like an animated movie (Episode I isn't that bad as that actually has real environments)  Episode II & III are just animated movies with real life characters and wont age well 20 years from now.

George Lucas walks into his office and Spielberg, Coppola, and Cameron and many other fellow directors are sitting there waiting for him:

Lucas:  Hey guys, whats going on?

Spielberg:  Sit down George, we need to talk

Lucas:  What is this about?

Coppola:  George, this is what's called an intervention, and we think you've hit rock bottom

Lucas:  Are you kidding me????

Cameron:  George, enough of tampering with the films, we see there are more changes to the BlurRay release?

Lucas:  Well, I thought it was cool if Jar Jar was inserted into all scenes in A New Hope where R2 and C3PO are in, like a third sidekick

Spielberg:  George, you have a problem, and the first step is to admit it.

Lucas:  But....  I also thought it would be cool to insert a CGI Yoda in Empire and Jedi.  And I thought it would be cool to put QuiGon and Mace in the ghost scene in Jedi....

Coppola:   George, its over, you need help!

Lucas:  (Breaks down crying)  You guys are right, I do have a problem, someone help me!!!!!

(Mr. Lucas is admitted to CGI-anyomous rehab center with fellows addicts like McG and Michael Bay) 

Six weeks later the OOT is then announced to be fully restored and released in September :)

doubleKO said:

I've been wrong about everything lately. I just hope I am wrong about the MIAMI CHEAT winning the NBA Championship. Wrong thread, I know... wrong again :(

 I'm predicting Mavs in 6, it's Dirk's time to win a title!

doubleKO said:

 

I agree with this but Star Wars fans should not bother George's family about Star Wars at all. She isn't responsible for his revisionism and shouldn't be looked down on or pitied for defending her father's view no matter how outrageous it seems, nor should fans put her in a position to have to do so.

I don't think she has been brainwashed, as some have put it - George really believes that's what Star Wars is now. I think the scenario zombie laid out above is extremely likely. I'm sure she is not forbidden from watching OOT/97SE, she is probably sick to death of Star Wars, hasn't bothered to check it out and is defending her father because that's what people do.

Baiting such as this only hurts our cause, we come off as rabid fans and it is likely to make the bearded one dig his heels in even further.

 I agree with you that fans shouldn't bother her on Twitter or on the street, but this happens oll the time with kids of famous people.  Michael Jordan's son was battling it out on Twitter last year when he was defending his dad saying he was the greatest, and better then Kobe Bryant.

From my perspective, I could never fathom asking Katie Lucas something about SW on Twitter, because she shouldn't have to deal with it.  But when she baits the fans, "They will complain and complain.....and then they will buy the BluRay set."  or "Han never shot first."  She is opening the door from certain SW fans to challenge her.

As I said, if she doesn't address it and doesn't answer it, she would only get the real extreme fans bothering her at that point.  Personally that is why I hate Twitter and Facebook because people don't need to know what you're doing every 5 minutes of your life!

TheoOdo said:

Well, when you're a member of a cult of personality, it's normal to show hostility to those who question your flawless leader and his "immaculate vision".

They're just being vindictive to us dirty, dirty apostates.

 I guess that's the difference between us and them.  I wouldn't have any problem if Lucas inserted all the deleted scenes in the PT, and put both versions in the boxset.  

Thats pretty sad that she doesn't even address the Han Shooting First question and just blatantly lies. 

I would have more respect for her if she didn't address any SW questions, and told us she didn't make the movies and she'll let her dad answer for the work he does. 

Baronlando said:

And in the context of people talking about this blu-ray box, it's seems particularly weird to go around proclaiming to the world how much you don't care that the originals aren't on it, even though other movies have multiple cuts. What, you like getting less for your money? 

 Oddly, many of these SE fans actually are HAPPY the OOT version aren't on the BluRay set.  Remember the line from the TFN'ers in 2006 after we found out we were getting laserdisk masters, "Well, you're getting what you deserve!"

It just shows that the SW fanbase is just bizarre these days.  I look forward to releases like T2, Bladerunner, etc because of multiple versions, even though I prefer one over the other.

Alexrd said:

 

Indeed. I only said that because while reading other recents posts here, he gets accused of being a troll for that same reason. Or at least, that's how I perceived it.

 He is a troll, because he keeps talking about that he isn't that heartbroken that Lucas isn't releasing the OOT.  Has he checked the name of the website?

It would be like myself going to a place called 'ThePrequelTrilogyFanClub.com" and then start talking shit about the PT to all the members there, and wondering why everyone was mad at me?

Alexrd said:

 

Being okay with the prequels and the SE?

 Because I know the talking points he is arguing with, as I heard them a ZILLION times when I used to post at TFN.   If you want, I can list the usual tagline arguments I used to hear at TFN.

And as I said earlier, I don't mind someone who disagrees with me (as long as you have a valid argument, but I don't want to hear the usual BS I heard  talking point I heard over at TFN, "These versions are rough drafts."  Those people will believe any BS Lucas says, and repeat it in their posts.  If Lucas said he was inserting Jabba taking a shit in ROTJ, they would defend that too.  :)

Easterhay, what was your username at TFN, just so I have a frame of reference of who I am talking to? 

Easterhay,

Please stop with your naive BS that you are giving an opinion.  You have been all over these forums in the past 2 days with your condenscending remarks, just to get a rise out of us.

No one minds other opinions on this board, as I am not lockstep with alot of the fans here.  I have many different opinions about the OOT, SE, and PT then many here, but in the end I believe the OOT should be on EVERY BluRay/DVD release.

Getting back to the point we were originally arguing, you said, 'The fights in the originals were all the same style...." 

And I will say again, YOU ARE WRONG!  ANH was TOTALLY different then ESB and ROTJ simply because Lucas/Kershner chose to make the lightsabers less heavy when ESB was being filmed.  So ANH looks alot slower because it is more on par with Conan the Barbarian, where ESB and Jedi are much faster and more on par with the PT.

Easterhay said:

 

The fights in the originals were all one style and look pretty arthritic now.  Easily explained away, with Vader being half machine, Obi-wan being an old codger and Luke being a callow youth...but Anderson's approach would not have worked for Jedi who were supposedly in their prime.

 Apparently, YOU dont know what you're talking about.  SW'77 fight is like it is simply because Lucas envisioned the lightsaber to be like heaving swords somewhat like the movie Excalibur (As Luke explained in a SW Insider in 2004 referring to that movie).  That is why it is slower, and Vader is using both hands.

Then in ESB, Kershner nixed the 'Excalibur' style and wanted to make it faster, so he changed it so the Lightsaber would be much lighter and free up movement, hence Vader is fighting Luke with one hand.

So if you are going to come here and just troll like you have for the past day or so, gets your facts straight ;)

Nobody likes a troll with the wrong facts ;)

Easterhay said:

Does it depress me?  As a fan since 1977, no it doesn't.  Serious things depress me, like the question of whether I will always be able to provide for my family, or the thorny issue of shooting unarmed terrorists because there isn't enough evidence to convict them in court, but does the fact that the older versions of some favourite films won't see the light of day on Blu-Ray depress me?  No, course it doesn't.

Should they be available?  Well, maybe as works-in-progress or from a curio's point of view, then perhaps.  The fact that I haven't seen the originals since nineteen-oh-spit probably speaks volumes on my perspective on this most trivial (in my mind) of issues.

 Come on, we all have our priorities right, we are talking about being depressed in the context of watching the movies.  Of course the OOT isn't as serious as the unemployment rate, terrorism, the national debt, etc.  We all get that.

In the context of being a SW fan, it just sucks that every BluRay release has every version (Close Encounters, Bladerunner, ET, T2, etc.)  and a SW boxset can't?

And please don't call them works in progess, because you sound like some moron from TFN who gets his talking points faxed to them every morning from Lucasranch   :) 

Could someone just change the name of this thread, "Is Princess Leia a racist?"

;)

I would buy it and gladly walk away from SW boards like this and all would be well.  I never hated Lucas like many on the internet, I always just found it weird that this whole rift was even created.  I can go through each movie series where I like and dislike certain sequels, but I don't think I have ever hated the creator or a section of the fanbase because of it. 

I absolutely hate Rocky V, but I don't think I ever cared what other Rocky fans thought of the movie, essentially because when there is a Rocky DVD or BluRay release, I buy the original and thats it.  The same goes with SW, if Lucas released the OOT in this boxset, the argument of Greedo shooting first or Hayden is a force ghost would never cross my mind because I can essentially watch the version I enjoy.

It is amazing its gotten to this in SW-ville, almost bizzare if you ask me.  Plus we now he Lucas's children tweeting and baiting the fans????  I think EVERYONE needs to take a step back.......

I can't believe it took me 34 years to realize that Leia was racist against the Wookies

;)

I agree with you TV Frink.  Are you guys seriously arguing that there is a tinge of racism by Princess Leia because she is making snide remarks about Wookies?

The next thing you guys are going to complain about is that Han Solo hates old people because he said, "Where did you dig up that old fossil!"

:)

msycamore said:

 

Even though I understand what you mean, when you're describing Star Wars, it starting to sound like a serious heavy drama, quite much overkill IMO. This is pulp and fantasy material afterall. Don't try to pretend it's something different than it is, it's a very well made fantasy film for kids, and when I say kids, I mean 7-18 year olds, (yes, a kid can be 18) don't be ashamed for liking a good film primarily directed towards kids. Just because it showed burned bodies in one scene doesn't directly make the film only made for mature audiences. Good fairytales have always had dark material embedded in their stories throughout history, it should have.

 I understand what you are saying, but I think one of the hardest things in movies is to make a movie like Star Wars actually come off as a movie that appeals to adults.  Now if you are comparing Star Wars to The Godfather, of course The Godfather is going to come off as more serious, more adult, and more realistic.

Movies like Star Wars, Back to the Future and Superman (movies I grew up with as a kid) all have elements of drama that have to compete with unrealistic things that you would never see in a movie like The Godfather or Lawrence of Arabia.  If you are watching Star Wars, you are watching different planets, spaceships, lightsabers and people with special powers, so right there you are compromising the drama that a movie like The Godfather can captialize on because we could believe whatever happens in that CAN really happen.

What is amazing about movies like Star Wars and Empire is that they are able to pull off dramatic moments especially with characters like a puppet (whose speech to Luke before he lifts the X-Wing fighter is one of the most poignant in the whole saga.  If Brando gives a speech in The Godfather, you know it will be great, if Yoda the puppet gives a speech, you don't know how audiences will react.

Again, I agree with what you're saying, but how many SciFi/Action movies can really pull off something dramatic?  I can maybe count a handful of truly great SciFi/Action movies that are truly moving.  Most accomplish their goal if giving the audience good action, good effects, etc, but not many can really compete with some of the great dramatic movies.  So in that sense, Star Wars to me is on the same level of The Godfather, as long as you keep them both in context of reality.