C3PX

Ziz said:

Of if they wanted to be really obvious that he was selfish, mean and egotistical, they could have called him "Vaderisnothayden Bane".

Seriously, what do comments like this really add to the discussion? You may not like VINH, or find him annoying, but it is still pretty lousy to just toss out insults like that.

Well, I guess Star Wars doesn't. Being as we have droids used for war in the PT and for assassinations in the OT.

I can think of many other works that have droids killing people as well. So yeah, I guess there are plenty that don't use the three laws.

Was there ever an indication Lucas actually borrowed these laws? We know it is against Threepio's programing to hurt people, but that seems like just a natural safety feature a responsible manufacturer would put on a droid intended for household use. I personally wouldn't consider adhering to the three laws.

Actually, with IG-88, my young self assumed/invented a back story for him where a company manufactured these droids and clients could sort of rent them. For example, I have some idiot that is making my life miserable and I need him out of the way, this company would look into the situation, and if they deemed it a job worth taking/something that wasn't going to get them in more trouble than it was worth, then they'd sent one of their programmable hitmen to deal with the situation for me.

As far as I know, there is no real canon backstory for IG-88 beyond the fact that he is somehow and bounty hunter and an Imperial model Assassin Droid. The EU backstory for IG-88, while being a very amusing and fun to read IMHO, is absolutely and utterly ridiculous. The EU story is that he became self aware, killed his makers, made copies of himself inside other IG droids, and started working as a bounty hunter to pass time until his plans for universal domination came into action. Oh yeah... and there was that bit about him transplanting his conciousness into the Death Star and essentially becoming the Death Star.

So yeah, I guess if we take the EU story to be canon worthy, then IG-88 was an exception to the seemingly rule of droids having owners. But from what we see in the actual movie, it is reasonable to assume he has an owner, but the owner didn't deem it necessary to travel across the galaxy meeting with Vader and hunting the bounty when he could simply sit on his rear end and let his robot do it for him.

Dude, I can't believe Artoo wasn't on the list to start with. I am as straight as they come, and even I can see what a sexy beast Artoo is. None of those other guys even hold a candle.

miker71 said:

 Only the later EU stuff paired these together (and West End RPG IIRC) until then I thought all the bounty hunters worked alone.

Hmm, I always just assumed that the droid belonged to the alien (perhaps this is very droidist of me? Nothing in the movies ever gave any indication of robots living independant, though they exhibit their own personalities, they are always refered to and treated as property). The robot (don't even know what to call him anymore) is obviously built in the image of the race of aliens from which the humanoid belongs to, so it would be natural to infer that they work together, or that one owns the other. 

By far, without question and beyond absolute doubt... R2-D2.

I actually have the entire collection of Empire Strikes Back cards from the 80s, but I shudder to think of the time it would take for me to locate them within the piles of my old junk. Perhaps I am wrong, but I sustinctly remember being somewhat confused by conflicting sources of his name and deciding on my own that obviously Zuckuss was the alien and 4LOM the droid. Had the figures been the only source of the names, I am sure my young self would have just went with the nonsensical 4LOM as the alien and Zuckuss as the droid. But I really have no way to confirm if the cards had their names without resolving myself to dedicate a few hour digging through boxes. I am surprised the internet doesn't have a more detailed story behind the bounty hunters identity confusion.

From what I read while trying to look into this, Kenner was in charge of naming many of the background characters that got figures, so if that is the case, and the names came from them and not anywhere else, then I concede that the original names they gave them were initially correct and the change may have been made retroactively.

The cards called the droid 4LOM and the alien Zuckuss.

Err, was the name messed up in any other publications? From comic books and trading cards I had at the time, I only remember the action figures making this mistake. Everywhere else Zuckuss was the guy in the mask and 4-LOM was his droid. A name like 4-LOM being numbers and letters seems like a very droid like name, so it stands to reason that it was intended this way and Kenner just make a mistake.

Also, judging by the fact that Kenner later corrected the mistake, I'd take this as overwhelming evidence that the names were in fact mixed up, and not just a change forced on us after Star Wars "turned bad".

Nice one. :D

Vaderisnothayden said:

Greedo may have loosely been a bounty hunter, but he wasn't a Bounty Hunter the way the ESB guys were.

But those guys were the finest bounty hunters the galaxy had to offer. With names like, Boba, 4-LOM, Zuckuss, and Dengar*, you know these guys are HARDCORE. Poor ol' Greedo was just small time. 

*Wow, if I hadn't been an SW geek all my life and watched these movies for the first time in adulthood, I'd be expecting those guys to whip out a banjo and start playing blue grass for Vader and his crew. I can almost imagine barefoot Bossk in overalls chewing on a piece of straw.

Left 4 Dead's new Crash Course DLC

I'd been looking kind of forward to this DLC. Having played plenty of the original four campaigns, the idea of a fresh brand new scenario sounded pretty nice. Valve clearly stated that this campaign consists of only two maps, and was designed with vs. mode in mind. Even with those warnings lowering my expectations, I was pretty disappointed with this new DLC.

First off, it is really short (this is an understatement, words fail to express how short it is), it is also not very exciting. Since zombies are coming at you much more frequently than in the other campaigns, this one comes off as very intense, but the level layout itself is pretty bland in comparison to some of the cool stuff we were treated to in the original campaigns. Though the finale is actually pretty interesting and quite different from the other finales, that is most definitely the highlight of this DLC. But honestly, the uniqueness of the finale doesn't make up for the fact that the rest of the campaign feels like something a 12 year old threw together with a level editor in half an hour. It is pretty clear that not a whole lot of time and effort went into this thing, and that it was very likely thrown together as a knee jerk response to the mass quantity of complaints pouring out of the internets regarding Left 4 Dead 2 being released merely a year after L4D one was released, and the expressed concern that L4D would be forgotten and never get all the extra DLC that was once promised for it.

Beyond being short and bland, it is horribly glitchy. This is a small complaint, since glitchy DLC is pretty common and usually fixed in a day or two, but it is still annoying that it is almost unplayable for the first two days of its existence. Perhaps they are working on the servers, because everytime I have tried to play this online, I lose the connection within a few minutes of playing and get sent back to the lobby. Many of the walls in the game are glitchy, and the infected can attack you through them. Once, I even got pulled into a large crate by a smoker, only to find myself permanently trapped in it once the smoker was dead. Fortunately I had a team mate who was kind enough to toss a gas can into the crate with me and shot it a few times allowing me to die a firey death and respawn. Or, at least I thought they were being kind and trying to help me, that is, until the same asshole fired a few shotgun rounds into me during the finale, helped me back up, then shot me a third time finishing me off. Jerk. Maybe he was just really pissed off that he had spend 560 MS points on it.

@Ziz I know that about the Firefly episodes having been aired out of order. My question was directed at VINH. He said that even in the proper order, they still don't connect.

Here is his exact quote, "being seen in order doesn't improve Firefly -it still doesn't connect properly."

I am interested in hearing him elaborate on this.

Just out of curiousity, what are some examples of how Firefly doesn't connect properly?

I have only ever watched the episodes in the order in which they appear on the DVD, and other than all the loose plot threads that resulted from its being cancelled, the whole thing seemed to flow fairly smoothly.

While we are on the subject of sci-fi shows Fox murdered, I read a few days ago that there is some talks of a Sarah Connor Chronicles direct to DVD film o tie up the series. That would make me a very happy man... I hope it gets made, just to give the show a sense of closure.

Oh hey, look, here is some mud! Maybe I should throw it...

No, that is just the way sports people work.

As for soccer, yeah, it is a painfully dull American bastardization of what is one of the greatest sports, loved by people around the world. Unfortunately, people from the United States absolutely suck at it, so they made it a women's sport and renamed it soccer. Then, just to be non-conformist and confusing as Americans often are and give the rest of the world the middle finger, they decided to fall head over heels in love with a form of rugby, but they have to be pansies about it and play it decked out in full out body armor out of fear of getting booboos :( and then they call their little padded rugby game "football" despite the fact that they rarely use their feet, rendering the name fairly nonsensical, and despite the fact that that name ALREADY BELONGED TO ANOTHER SPORT!!!

Didn't really find any of it funny, just reminded me of how much I hate sports. I just don't get them... I really don't...

Alternatively, I really don't get the extremely obsessed Star Wars/Star Trek/anything guys either. Like the guy in that clip who was proud of having seen Star Wars so many times and bragged about not having a social life.

I really can't think which I'd dislike more, having to watch Episode II again, or having to watch an entire football game... both would be extremely uncomfortable experiences for me.

McCallum is the guy who quite literally starts orgasming every time he talks about George Lucas or Star Wars. Just because this guy dreams of their being five Star Wars tv shows, thank goodness, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Nothing lasts forever, and I think Star Wars has (finally!) run its course, at least with adult/teenage audiences. I have a feeling the live action tv show will never happen, I think it is the sequel trilogy of the current generation of Star Wars fans, but ultimately will wind up being "an invention of the media" sort of thing. 

If it does get made, I can't imagine it aiming for an adult audience (though I wish it would, I'd love to have a live action Star Wars tv show that I enjoy, but there is just no part of me that thinks this could be anything but awful. I certainly wouldn't mind being wrong though). And unfortunately, if it were aimed at an adult audience, I am afraid it would be doomed to failure simply due to the fact that sci-fi shows don't seem to go over to well. If it managed to be more character focused like BSG and be more adult themed, it might fly, but that seems really, really, really unlikely. 

If the live action show does get made, my guess is that it will be more along the lines of a live action kids show with a high budget. Basically a cartoon with live actors.

Either way, I think Star Wars' number is up. From here on out it may endure as a children's cartoon series, but nothing more.

Rhikter said:

C3PX said:

...I chalked it up to typical bad CG, when in reality it is was bad makeup job.

I personally don't have any problem with Tarkin's appearance in RotS.  I felt like they successfully managed to portray him as younger, and even more built.

Yeah, that portrait shot of Wayne Pygram in his Tarkin make-up is pretty messy, but in RotS, since he's only in a wide shot, all I see is a Tarkin that's 20 years younger with broad shoulders and a chiseled jaw.

I am wondering if we saw the same film?

This is what I remember,

Which I think looks absolutely awful. I couldn't find a larger resolution image than this one, but in higher resolution he looks even more awful than this. He just looks fake, even more so when the shot is in motion.

Vaderisnothayden said:

It most definitely does detract. It increases the ridiculous end of ROTS = start of ANH factor, making the universe yet smaller. So nothing changes in 20 years. Tarkin goes with the Death Star, which should never have been in the prequels.

Nor is Tarkin's appearance merely an easter egg like those things you mentioned, because it's an awful lot more conspicuous and part of the central story.

 

True story. We end ROTS with Luke and Obi-Wan on Tantooine, Artoo and Threepio on the Tantive IV, Vader and Tarkin on the Death Star (okay, they were not ON it yet at the end of ROTS but they were standing outside of it waiting for it to get finished... which appearantly took 20 years lol), and Yoda on Dagobah. Twenty years later and none of these characters move so much as a muscle. Leia is the only one who actual moves, going from Alderaan to the Tantive IV. 

Erikstormtrooper said:

I think Tarkin should have been in the PT more. Regardless of the quality of the makeup, it would have bridged the trilogies better. Does anyone complain about Obi-Wan's character because he didn't look enough like Alec Guiness?

No, but Obi-Wan wasn't portrayed by Ewan McGregor in bad makeup made to look like Alec Guiness. Had that been the case, you'd likely have heard me complain about it a time or two by now.

But yeah, I agree with you that Tarkin's character would have made a nice addition to the series, he was a fantastic villian, one of my favorite SW characters actually, way more interesting than wasted and empty villians like poor Dooku and Grevious. I would have liked to see Tarkin's character play a much bigger role in the PT, but as I said before, I am not so sure they could have filled Cushing's shoes (though once I may have said the same about Alec Guiness' shoes, yet I feel Ewan was beyond perfect for that role which makes it all the more ashame he was given nothing but crap to work with).

Yeah, they should have been aiming for a younger version of Peter Cushing, not Peter Cushing from ANH.

I had no idea it was a guy in makeup. Something just looked really off about Tarkin's appearance in ROTS, and I chalked it up to typical bad CG, when in reality it is was bad makeup job.

Though I must say, I am impressed with that second photo, though I'd have a hard time believing it would work in motion, but as a still image it looks great. So ultimately, not that it matters with how awful the movie was in general, it is probably still a good idea they limited his appearance to that brief distance shot.

I wonder if his family got money for his likeness being used in the film?

xhonzi said:

 Some of you are aware of my continued quest to shield my kids from the Prequels.  So it probably doesn't surprise you that we have a Galactic Heroes Yoda floating around the house that has had its lightsabre dremel'd off.

 

Xhonzi, I applaud you! You are a very good man.

xhonzi said:

U did it again!  Please!  Every1!  for the sake of C3PX, will u all stop using 'U' as a replacement for 'you', and 'ur' as a replacement for "your" and "you're"?!?!?

 

Thank u.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

BANG!

THUD!

...

rcb said:

btw, im a fan of yours also.

Whoa! My fanbase is TWICE as big as I thought it was!

The reason he was in such a short cameo was because, what with Peter Cushing being dead and all, he was completely CG, which would have looked weird having him make more of an appearance than he did. Sure, they could have got another actor to play his role, but you have to admit, the man had a very distinguished face that would not have easily been substituted.

Ultimately, the whole Tarkan issue is another problem that was created thanks to the amazing changing story line of the Star Wars Saga. Originally Vader role in the grand picture of the Galactic Empire was quite different from where it wound up. Yeah, the prequels absolutely could have and probably should have retconned a reason for the second most powerful man in the galaxy being ordered around and talked down to by someone the same rank as the guys Vader uses as whipping boys in later films.

But after seeing the Phantom Menace, did you really think there was even the slightest chance this would have been explained? The prequels followed a strict rule of explaining crap that didn't need explained and not even coming close to approaching things that people have been curious about for nearly 30 years. Remember 3PO's mismatched leg? That is one me and my friends always talked and wondered about when we were kids, not sure why it fascinated us so much, but we knew there had to be some story behind his silver leg. Before 1999, I was pretty sure this would be explained in the PT, after 1999 I was pretty sure it wouldn't be touched on at all. PT did a brilliant job of showing us all sorts of crap we really didn't want to see, and not showing us anything we really did want to see.

I am not a big Halo fan or anything, I just got around to playing and beating 1-3 this year. I am by no means a fanboy, and I don't think they are the absolute greatest games ever made, but I do enjoy them for what they are.

That said, the newest game in the series came out today, ODST. And I have to say it is really freakin' good! It is quite a bit different from the other games, in a good way. This is the most I have ever enjoyed playing a Halo game. And as a Firefly fan, it is indescribably cool having Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, and Alan Tudyk all provide voice acting for the game (and in the case of Nathan Fillion, not only did he lend his voice talent, but also his likeness. Pretty cool actually seeing him in the game. Kind if wish they had done the same for the other Firefly guys. Tricia Helfer from BSG also has her likeness used for her character in the game).