Mavimao said:
Darth Lucas said:
Someone make a meme of Gordon Gekko saying "grain is good" please. haha
You asked for it. You got it. Toyota.
haaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahaha.
That was a great show
towne32 said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
BuddhaMaster said:
That's another ignorance here.
You can't also really say the color-grading is not final. Because movies are not a production that works in incremental steps, as the color-grading will be upgraded to the final look and become better. The initial look is right there. The only thing changing will be minimal cleanup in various elements. Not the general look.
The same argument is made about cgi effects. They do not upgrade them as if it's some kind of a software. The final composition of a movie or scene should be there right from the beginning.
That's a bunch of arrant nonsense ^. Wrong in every respect.
Watch this video comparing what you would describe as the "Final" colours and "Final" FX in the Hobbit trailer, to the "Actual final" colours and FX...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi94JM3zkxk
Also, as anybody who has ever watched a Deleted Scene before will tell you, the colour grading can be vastly different.
CGI changes dramatically throughout production. The sea dinosaur thing in Jurassic World received updates with each trailer. Color grading can also occur as a near final step. I lost track of the ignorances.
The first trailer (I think that was the superbowl one), had a strong green tint. The later trailer was more teal. Thats interesting. The same happened with Mad Max, previously shown it had less strong oranges before the release. This same thing happens to countless movies, I can't name any else right now, but it happens endless times.
And then someone said a trailer does not represent a final look of a movie. That is to say they do additionally re-grade a trailer to show off? They do show a movie-preview with a different color than the final release?
Seriously that is questionable.
Why so much pandering? Is everyone so insecure.
How do they decide for what kind of color-grading to go? The only thing I can think of is a chart like that:
First global release = have a balance of 40% teal, 20% yellow and 40% orange. Official movie release = 45% teal, 15% yellow and 45% orange?
This all sounds way too forced. How can you even have some degree of creativity with those forced ways of looking at things.
As someone other said. Yes I would like to see a movie with a different color-grading, strongly if that.
I.e. What about strong reds and strong blues, or greens? Why must it always be teal and orange? Doesn't that sound like forced restriction?
How do you go about the fact that one movie would probably profit from a different color-palette if the only one at disposal is teal and orange?
ilovewaterslides said:
TV's Frink said:
Harmy said:
I'm more interested in what's in those cans.
WHAT'S IN THE BOX???!!!
Obviously it's a surviving copy of the cancelled Holiday Special release.
That's another ignorance here.
The picture is bad quality, but as I stated one can read the information out of it. It is not a coincidence the colors teal and orange are dominating.
You can't also really say the color-grading is not final. Because movies are not a production that works in incremental steps, as the color-grading will be upgraded to the final look and become better. The initial look is right there. The only thing changing will be minimal cleanup in various elements. Not the general look.
Pandering a defined look over a final movie is not what I would call a creative process.
Let me throw an analogy in here. If a ugly girl uses makeup just like a beautiful girl, they will both look similar but the former girl will look beautiful in an artificial way.
The same argument is made about cgi effects. They do not upgrade them as if it's some kind of a software. The final composition of a movie or scene should be there right from the beginning. Software solutions to clean up and alter images are, or should, only be additional tools to be used if they are appropriate.
But in modern movies I guess the color-grading and post-processing is already strongly integrated and pre-calculated, going from that how can you even have any dynamics in the process? No the look is basically pre-calculated from the beginning. Because there is too much money involved to be dynamically. This is a bad thing right, because movies are always a dynamic process and not a stiff production enterprise.
The talk about "complimentary colors" is a joke.
Those colors are simply contrasting. You will see the colors as a strong contrast, therefore the brain sees a strong pattern, thats what the brain usually goes for first.
White and Black are perfect contrast.
Teal and Orange as you noted are strong contrasts, not even perfect though.
But I really find the teal and orange strange and so forced. In the nineties the two main colors were simply red and blue. I'm almost sure those two primary colors are the ones that occur more often or naturally.
But then you can of course say "it's just a movie". That's the point that drives me mad. Because it's just a movie, seriously? Does one even care about the movies he's watching? I mean stating that, you could literally go watch a porn, because it's still a movie right?
I just hate the ignorance. Those teal and oranges looks are NO WAY a artistic choice.
Thanks for looking into it.
Is it just me or is the music different at 01:11:36 ?
Especially 01:11:48
The end of the motif sounds a bit like something out of Jaws. I'm not sure but can this be a leftover musical cue?
Here you go:
http://color-rant.blogspot.ch/2015/06/they-did-it-star-wars-does-now-look.html
(Beware of the strong critical thinking! If you can't take it don't read the analysis.)
When I saw that new screencap from TFA on makingstarwars.com, which clearly shows a unaltered image straight from the movie, the truth was no longer to be ignored.
You can browse the blog for more information on modern movie-looks.
We miss you, mverta!
I've seen your restoration videos countless times. The information concealed within is so educational and gives me hope for the better. You go into details so precisely and nonchalant, it's like listening to my spiritual mentor.
The work you accomplish is the best I've probably ever seen from a guy which seriously understands what he's doing. I also figured out that you work as a composer and it's just inspiring, really inspiring listening to your comprehension of the work you do!
A little fan-talk from my side. Hoping to see and hear more analytical videos if you get the time.
I especially like the "Reality Check", because it's so fucking true. You said that word and it's appropirate.
I'm so tired of modern production values and marketing decisions of the art form I learned to love and relate to it with life-hearth at young age. It's literally getting teared apart. I learnt things like effects of primary colors and their use's, it seems things like that are just thrown away and worth nothing anymore. Same with music (compressed to hell), the same happens with colors right now (it's like black and white all over again, but in teal and orange).
I hope your masterful work will be able to chance some decisions made soon. If not, at least a little bit.
Btw I hope not getting ripped apart for posting that. I've started a little blog to rant about modern movie colors on this page: http://color-rant.blogspot.ch/
Very nice colors!
Of all the versions I own, this looks to be the best.
I like the tendency for earthly, red tones. While being very vivid. The color correction manages to bring out the depth of some images, which is often a sign to do it correctly. Thank you I'm judging from the screenshots.
If you are unsure about the Aspect Ratio you could analyse the capsule ejection scene. A trained eye should always be able to spot any unnatural warping in the dimension. Or a Death Star shot of course, I just know it's not entirely circular.
or you can have an original 70mm print, fade free and die happily
Hello.
It's been discussed before, but my biggest concern looking at various shots is the crushed white-levels.
Is that really in the source, couldn't that be prevented by lowering the projector level?
I just hope for the best quality and you won't needlessly crush the white-levels which are so vital in the regrading process. I'm not well known in that process but I know you can edit images without getting the crush. As in upping the gamma, instead of overall brightness.
dave88 said:
DrDre said:
Here are a few more 1080p screenshots without dehaloing:
.....
Holy shit! The amount of detail gained by simply using a resizing and frame interpolation? Especially that one, where C3PO's arm is damaged.
What kind of sorcery is that!
I've seen the devil, the lord all mighty!
This is really, really impressive. I would've NEVER believed such thing to become possible, that it actually uncovering true detail.
hairy_hen said:
...Try some different EQ to see if you can bring it down a bit. Still can't do it without destroying the singer's voice? Turn off the filters and just get used to it being there. Nobody else can hear it but you? Maybe it wasn't much of a problem after all. The truck noise is getting into the reverb send on the vocals and making this neat effect in a key part of the song that wouldn't have been there otherwise? Go with it and maybe even find a way to emphasize it a little more to make it sound even cooler.
Sometimes the little idiosyncrasies of an artistic work can add up to create a whole that was unintended but awesome all the same. Even the mistakes can turn out to contribute to the overall effect. You have to decide whether something like that is enough of a problem to warrant fixing,...
Very well spoken.
Thats exactly the inspirational talk I"m looking for.
So far I love mvertas project for exactly those inspirational things. Doesn't matter if I can never watch his restorations, but the social commentary sure inspires me a shitload! :-)
R6S001
That you just uploaded. Reminds me some of the silver-metal color grading school I hinted to from Terminator Salvation. I'm sure you familar with it was quiet hyped when that movie was around some 2006 and color grading was becoming that new crazy thing.
Another possibility is the darkness introduces some 3d effect when viewed on LCD displays (yes I have one shitty LCD display, god I miss my good old solid CRT, I think they're still unbeatable.)
There are no CRT anymore. Same with mobile phones. Can't even buy one with classic keypads. Because business takes away all freedom. And tags it freedom, individuality and personality.
So that very thing you've just taken away from us? blah-blah, I can't hear you anymore.
btw: I like that restoration. It makes it look like a well lit working space, which makes sense. Reminds me of movies from the 60-70s where they literally spent every dollar to light every inch on screen. I love bright colorful pictures. Especially Technicolor era
Is that really how the 4k remaster is gonna look like, uncertain if that even applies?
It's like... the depth is completely gone and well, LOL.
Those are not professionals, right? Those are some hobby-kiddies trying to make SW look like your next casual Hollywood blockbuster. There is not even a decision made, just apply that general blockbuster blue/grey almost-teal-not-totally but very silverish-chrome-green-blueish ...it looks like cardboard made of metal. But very old and tarnished metal, not a industry-new shiny metal.
Remember the color grading of Terminator Salvation? It had that "new chrome/silver" color grading, like you've never seen before. Don't know that was good for the industry, but I think seeing something of that here.
This is the worst state of color's i've ever seen SW being at ever.
Even a bad 8mm copy looks lively and organic compared to this trainwreck. Thank you for being patient towards critique. It's not an easy thing to do :)
@ MVerta. Your restore looks phenomenal as usual. First I thought 3CPO is a bit bright and blunt, but looking at it for a moment. Phenomenal. I love how you always manage to make the pictures look 3D. Even more depth than actual 3D.
Thanks again for interpreting so well, why Star Wars is so special.
A true form of art. That's why the prequels are nothing compared to the original movies, nor will the new trilogy.
To approach Star Wars as a franchise where you can simply extend upon is just ignorant. Please leave that fantasy-bubble. Nothing against expanding a fantastical world, but please do not try it in a ignorant way as just "well, we love SW, people do, let's do more of that" rather do it in a respectful way where you admit that you can never surpass an original. Standing on the shoulders of geniuses, trying to slap it on a lunchbox and selling, selling you know!
That accounts to George Lucas handling the originals, his prequels, the prequel-fans and what movies are yet to come.
You do not simply repeat art. Those are things that are once in a lifetime. I don't see enough respect for that in the world.
Thanks mverta for putting it in words where many fail.
You're the Gandhi of SW preservation.
(please excuse the pathetic wording)
Hello.
It is not easy to criticize something without coming over as harsh. There is the slight possiblity that one, committed to an artistic work looses the view of relevance, might be colors, tones such fundamental things that become even harder to grasp with increasing commitment.
So I saw the sandcrawler scene in which is undeniably the best fan-edit of a pop cultural piece of art, trying to recreate that based on original sources and endless skill, I can't even touch a microscopic level of that. I'm a nobody and I have near no experience in video-editing nor the tools to do so.
So I tried to improve the colors in that sandcrawler scene and thought that's quiet an improvement, I wanted to share that. And I was slightly surprised to have actually offended anybody. Because there should be absolutely no personal perception of what I did. I was just trying to help.
But then I realized that your fan-edit is not my work and I have probably no right to criticize your decisions. I'm absolutely convinced the colors in the scene are way off, so simply making the image look worse because some source says so, felt ignorant and irritating.
Thank you for your work and may the best come out of Star Wars. I will delete my posts in your thread, but if you like to share, feel free.
-
Harmy. Which sources did you use for the sandcrawler scene?
Film can be used as toilet-paper?
*edit* let me correct: If the Special Edition's were not on disc, they could've been a lucrative business
Yeah mverta.
I can feel you have so much passion and it's simply inspiring!
That color-grading madness, same thing happened in music-industy, although they seem to reach an end to the loudness-war.
It is simply compressing the shit out of everything, literally destroying information. I don't think one should be allowed to such a degree.
In a thousand years when new civilizations will dig up old films, they will go like "why do movies from >2'000 look so bad, did the world turn blue?".
It's so crazy, can't even take it really serious. And I hear all those professionals saying about the need of color-grading and how much it enhances the picture. In reality it's just become as simple and harsh as pulling a total teal-orange rule over everything. There is not a grain of artistical enhancement or improvement and every child should just look and the screen and laugh!
Hey Mr. Verta. I wondered if you must be one of those rare people that seriously get a lot of anger and simply sad of what's happening in the film-industry -> color-grading etc.
Honestly myself, I can't even watch movies anymore. Only rarely. Those color-decisions and film-making decisions seriously make me ill. Like I can't even endure a film in cinema anymore, that feeling of something is wrong with life generally prevents me.
Recent best example being
Seein in-production screens that have juicy colors, then the final graded movie looks like a puke-bucket.
I've just discovered that restoration project.
That's some breathtaking process.
I must say the sandcrawler shot looks just the way as it's supposed to be or as I'd expect it. Great work. I'm trying to follow up this project but thats some impressive effort!
Yeah but hear. The picture is obviously a top-reference and the way to go, but don't actually "literally" match the photos taken by those screenings right?
Your version is supposed to look like the reference material that print is, not how it will look when screened on canvas
