Broom Kid

Regardless of your political leanings, I don’t think it’s very good to simplify one side into being a bunch of complete monsters who do evil things just for shits and giggles. That’s not how real life conflict works.

It’s a fantasy movie though.

I would like for my fantasy movies to contain the fantasy where good people can be good without it being part of a larger, much more important narrative that being good means forgiving and uplifting absolute monsters

The sympathetic Vader/Kylo figures are ultimately THE focal point of all 9 Skywalker Saga movies. There might be something between that focal point and why ultimately the saga is unsatisfying dramatically and emotionally, is all I’m saying.

I also never said “no one in a fascist state should be allowed any sympathetic motivations” (although… why are we worried about fictional fascists being coddled here?) what I actually said was the “redemption” narrative, especially when that redemption is solely centered on genocidal fascists, could take some time off.

Star Wars came out shortly after the country (barely) survived a Nixonian hellscape (and it can be argued it wasn’t defeated, it just metastacized into its current form) and that simplistic take on good and evil is historically cited as one of THE biggest reasons it was a feel-good four-quadrant success. In that instance, it WAS very good to simplify one side.

We could use that now, is what I’m saying. Instead of yet another iteration on the “redeem the bad guy” narrative.

I feel like Star Wars movies whose focus is primarily on “understanding” and identifying with fascist dictators (homicidal/genocidal fascist dictators, at that) is a thing we should be more or less done with for awhile. I don’t need a movie about Darth Vader, or Kylo Ren, or any other bad guy who is REALLY just “misunderstood” and needs the right show of love to turn him to the light.

I’d like a movie by any set of storytellers about good people learning how to be better people at while triumphing over bad people who are doing bad things for their own benefit.

God, I’d love to see a story like that in Star Wars.

Revenge of the Sith had a good enough last act to make people remember it more fondly than it probably should be. It’s very much like “Jurassic World” in that sense: It’s probably not THAT good a movie, but it hits that last half-hour so hard that you’re not against watching it again if given the chance.

The Siege of Mandalore arc on Clone Wars is a better Revenge of the Sith than Revenge of the Sith was. I don’t think that’s exaggeration, either - it does the things that movie wants to do, but does them better. Which is probably why people took on the task of trying to cut the two together despite the fact even the best attempts at it would come off like that weird, ungainly “Watchmen Ultimate Cut”

jedi_bendu said:

Jordan Maison, a guy who’s had reliable Star Wars ‘scoops’ in the past, says there should be a trailer 2:

https://twitter.com/JordanMaison/status/1311698063233372160?s=20

The only thing that guy ever “scooped” was The Clone Wars coming back, and IIRC it wasn’t so much that he scooped it as he was the last person to “guess” it out loud before an announcement was made. He’s really good at “guessing” things that are beyond obvious and then just waiting for that obvious thing to happen. That doesn’t make him a scooper, though.

But then again, he’s also way nicer, and loads less obnoxious than 99% of all fandom “scoopers” or “insiders” so better he gets that attention than someone who honestly believes hearing behind-the-scenes news makes them an important “reporter” with status or whatever.

But still “Sources tell me the most popular tv show on Disney+ will have more than a single commercial” isn’t a particularly hard “scoop” to “leak.”

Jedi Temple Archives is… bad, right?

I thought I remembered them being bad.

aw mannnnn

I keep thinking “wow, enough with Ahsoka already” but then they show me what they’re doing with her and I’m like “OK… alright, you got me again. This is the goods.”

At this point, the idea of her being essentially the GANDALF of Star Wars is pretty cool. Seeing her make the jump to live action will also be pretty cool. Eventually, she’ll pass on, and it seems remarkable (or ridiculous) looking back how this complete RETCON of a person has surpassed so many other characters in the saga in terms of personality, arc, impact, and three-dimensionality, but the way it’s been done has always essentially justified itself, no matter how outlandish it seems on the surface.

Don’t underestimate how many people loathed the direction that TLJ was going in

I’m sure it’s in the thousands, sure. Thousands can seem like a lot of people if you’re packed into a convention hall, or watching a minor league sporting event. But when you’re dealing with tens of MILLIONS of tickets sold, blu-rays bought, and streams counted, thousands aren’t a whole hell of a lot.

Return of the Jedi is correctly rated.

Hey, that’s fine! It’s a good sign that he read the responses, which is what matters. Maybe he won’t be so hasty (and loud) in the future, wherever that is.

Seriously, the blending, detail, grain managment, and DNR is very good on this release. Everything looks as close to uniform as it can considering the obstacles to overcome.

It’s easier to blend the two sources together by using a blend of DNR and film grain overlays. The uniformity of the resultant image texture makes the film more immersive, and the eye is less inclined to spot the seams where sources change and change back again. This exact same method was used for the Oohteedee versions, and will be used for the Harmy 3.0s coming soon, too. IIRC he used the same method on the 2.0 versions? I might have that wrong.

It’s not a matter of “SCREW DNR, IN FACT, LET’S ADD SOME DIRT,” it’s a matter of recognizing the pluses and minuses inherent to the source and using the tools at hand to make the most cohesive final product. Even in DNR’d versions of the OT, there’s still film grain present and visible, which makes sense because those movies were shot on film and grain is inherent to that format.

There are probably blu-rays on your shelf right now–blu-rays you think are amazing–that also, after doing a DNR pass or 2 (or 5) add a low-opacity grain overlay to the image. It’s not a weird, fetishistic film-fanatic-only move. It’s done quite a bit both professionally AND in the scrappier realm of amateur film-restoration.

FWIW, the grain plate added to this version is very subtle. It’s not like they filmed a swarm of mosquitoes and hit the clone tool and then just glued it to the blu-ray footage. It’s a very fine grain, I believe matched as closely as possible to a DNR’d version of 4k83 (which still has visible film grain in it) and laid over the UHD source. I’m sure they could speak to how they did it much more clearly (and authoritatively) than I could, but I think that’s what happened. (edit: while I was typing that, that’s EXACTLY what happened, LOL).

It’s not my preferred ROTJ restoration, but the image quality (detail, resolution) is not one of the things I’d fault for that at all: The job they did in blending the footage together - including their use of a grain overlay to match the sources - is pretty great. And I bet if you’d actually WATCHED this version instead of just reading about it, you’d likely have agreed.

Those are bad things, though.

Your tone is different but it feels like the same hand waving lumping together the general audience opinion based on assumptions of their consensus, then when it swings the other way circumstances

So what about the post I initially responded to sounded like the whistlings of a canary in a coal mine, or “undeniable echoes” as such?

Are you devil’s advocating in general, or do you honestly believe there’s some merit in the unrealistic assertion that people “tolerated” TFA to the astronomical success it enjoyed, and that “pent-up rage” is responsible for TLJ’s lesser box-office success? And did you honestly believe one of the four quadrants in a studio’s four-quadrant audience targeting was “online fandom?” I guess I’m not sure what hypothetical outcome you’re protecting for here, and that you think I’m unfairly dismissing out of hand.

“The deeper conversation” is better and more worthwhile when (observably false) appeals to authority are lessened, not allowed (and made room) for. If you (I’m using the royal “you” here, to clarify) have to gin up mistaken realities to support your personal feelings about a work of art, your personal feelings could probably do with more reflection, investigation, and examination before sharing them.

Also: a possible alternate for the repeated trailer music requests might be the slow statement of the main title heard when Han first sees the Falcon from the Solo soundtrack.

this upcoming soundtrack release might provide a higher quality version

Can’t imagine it won’t be. The current version of that track is ripped from the surround channels, isn’t it? This will be taken from the studio recordings directly, not an after-the-fact rescue job from the film mix.

it’s when you say those feelings are only with the fandom you also are making an assumption of reality

It’s not so much an assumption as it is an accumulation of experience. It’s not dismissing fandom to say it’s a small, much less-important voice compared to the general audience’s, it’s observable fact. Fandom isn’t as important as it likes to think it is, and has proven as such over, and over, and over again.

I’ve never said feelings within the fandom are exclusive to the fandom, and have repeatedly admitted there are members of the general audience whose opinion will (and do) overlap with members of the fandom’s. But that doesn’t validate or elevate the fandom’s status beyond their place as a loud and passionate minority of the much larger general audience.

The initial claim was honestly pretty ridiculous and that’s why I spoke up. I don’t understand what’s wrong with that. YouTube comment rhetoric isn’t the same as a cogent argument with legitimate support.

FWIW - I don’t remember if it was this edit that was using a subtle DOTF drop (taken from John Powell’s Solo score) but the deluxe version of that score is going to be released digitally soon, so a better/cleaner rip of that music can be sourced from there when it comes out.

act on instinct said:

I’m with you through most of this, but this absolutely is important to the studio, they want a four quadrant blockbuster.

The four quadrants don’t include “hardcore online fandom” though. The four quadrants are men, women, young, and old. Again, do small slivers of each quadrant coincide with self-described members of fandom? Absolutely. But the utility of fandom to a studio isn’t ticket sales. It’s free marketing. And even in that instance, free marketing is just cherries on top of an expensive pie they’ve baked to do most of the real work.

I get your point about feeling dismissive, and wanting to combat that dismissiveness - but that’s partially why I responded in the first place, because the initial response I was countering was legitimately dismissive based on basically nothing but a small, skewed, extremely online perspective that sought to reframe reality itself in order to make an argument seem more sound. And that’s also why I made sure to point out I’m not suggesting people’s personal opinions about the movies are invalidated by general audience reception, nor should they be. The Force Awakens made 930mil domestic and made more than a few top 10 of the year lists - and I feel like it’s still borderline incoherent in the editing at points and comes very close to fumbling the third act completely, for example. The argument I’m making here isn’t that “the movie was successful and has a Rotten Tomatoes rating of X, therefore you can’t ever complain about the movie.” That’s not my stance. My stance is “You can’t extrapolate from your own personal opinons, attribute them to millions and millions of other people on a whim, and then act as if that extrapolation is now observable, inarguable reality,” especially when what you’re claiming as reality is that a generally accepted, liked, and inarguably successful movie was merely “tolerated” all the way to the bank.

act on instinct said:

The movie should have always been Lando in the first place, Donald Glover was reaching the peak of his fame, all stars aligned, for those that don’t remember This Is America dropped the same month as Solo.

You are 100% right here. The second Glover was cast as Lando I wanted it to become a Lando movie if it could.

“The community” is a very small percentage of the larger audience though. Fandom isn’t as important as it thinks it is, nor does it have the numbers it thinks it does. “Fandom,” and “The Community” don’t represent a lot of power compared to the general audience. Is there some venn diagramming of the “Silent Majority” as you put it and the vocal side of a much, much smaller segment of that audience that self-identifies as “the fandom?” Definitely. Is that venn diagramming all that important to anyone but the people in that self-identified fandom? Not really.

I’m also not sure what it is you’re trying to argue in this context? That if things were different, they’d be different? TFA was liked. A lot. It wasn’t merely “Tolerated” to the level of success it enjoyed.

It’s popularity doesn’t negate or invalidate people’s feelings about the movie though. I’m not saying “Well, it was popular, so your criticisms don’t count” I have problems with TFA as a movie, too. What I’m saying is that trying to reframe its obvious and observable success both financially and critically as a mass exercise in tolerance doesn’t make any sense to me if you’re trying to reflect reality at all, nor does trying to frame TLJ’s reception (which was remarkably good if not AS remarkable as TFA’s) as a result of the general audience’s collective pent-up rage being unleashed.

I still think it’s more than fair to say many opinions on TFA soured over time

Ok, but that’s not really what’s being argued. Opinions didn’t really sour that much between 2015 and 2017, and certainly not to the point where mass outbreaks of “pent up rage” affected the box-office of TLJ to a measurable degree. Even to the extent that some opinions on the film did sour in the two years (more like 1 1/2 considering its popularity) it certainly didn’t sour to the point where anyone could claim its “tolerated” popularity was only kept afloat due to the power of hope that sequels would “fix” it.

This suggested POV seems to be reflecting a small and extremely online subsect of the film’s (exponentially) larger audience.

Also: earlier in the thread, someone suggested Arndt’s character work is what contributed to TFA’s success, but I don’t believe anything about Arndt’s script save for the general structure survived the process. IIRC, the whole reason Kasdan was there was to effectively page-one rewrite everything with Abrams.

People really liked TFA. Nothing makes 900mil+ domestically out of a sense of “tolerance.”

It’s kinda silly to look at the unprecedented success (and critical reception) TFA got and say people only “tolerated” it. They obviously really, really liked it. Liking a movie and hoping the sequel does the stuff you liked EVEN BETTER aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. TLJ didn’t make as much as TFA for multiple reasons, hashed out in multiple discusssions over the last five years, but I don’t think in any way that “pent up rage” from the audience had any real effect on that box-office dip.

Damn, that’s wild!

So basically, the only guaranteed way to get ONLY the 2020 blu-rays is to buy the UK 18-disc blu-ray box-set.

I do wonder if the same thing will start happening here in the US - when stores finally burn through all their 2011 repackages, will Disney start issuing the new discs for restock? Or will they bother to even press up new discs at all and just steer folks to Disney+

In the UK, if you buy a blu-ray only disc, you get the new masters on that blu-ray.

in the US, if you buy a blu-ray only disc, you get the 2011 discs repackaged. The only way to get new masters on blu-ray in the US is to buy a 4K disc that comes with the new masters on the pack-in blu-ray.

Star Wars has always been popular. I don’t even know how you could argue otherwise. The fact it wasn’t AS popular when it was just books and video games (even though those books and video games were almost constantly best sellers) isn’t a sign that it was unpopular, just that it’s MOST popular when its movies.

The idea that “Sweaty nerds” kept it alive has always benefited sweaty nerds sense of self worth more than anything. It’s not all that reflective of reality. Star Wars sold billions of toys, books, video games, and more between 1984 and 1998. Nerds don’t move billions of dollars of ANYTHING by themselves. It’s never happened. You hit billions because regular folks like it.

I don’t think the PT enhanced the OT’s popularity. It probably enhanced ROTJ’s reputation more than anything, I will give it that. But the OT, and more generally, STAR WARS was always super-popular. Probably always will be. Even if now it seems like it’s most popular as TV instead of as a Movie. But then again, you could argue TV is more popular than movies now. And at this point, pretty much everything IS TV right now. So Star Wars is probably in a good place in that regard - like it basically always has been.

THERE it is.

You love to see it.