Broom Kid

Jedi Temple Archives is… bad, right?

I thought I remembered them being bad.

aw mannnnn

I keep thinking “wow, enough with Ahsoka already” but then they show me what they’re doing with her and I’m like “OK… alright, you got me again. This is the goods.”

At this point, the idea of her being essentially the GANDALF of Star Wars is pretty cool. Seeing her make the jump to live action will also be pretty cool. Eventually, she’ll pass on, and it seems remarkable (or ridiculous) looking back how this complete RETCON of a person has surpassed so many other characters in the saga in terms of personality, arc, impact, and three-dimensionality, but the way it’s been done has always essentially justified itself, no matter how outlandish it seems on the surface.

Don’t underestimate how many people loathed the direction that TLJ was going in

I’m sure it’s in the thousands, sure. Thousands can seem like a lot of people if you’re packed into a convention hall, or watching a minor league sporting event. But when you’re dealing with tens of MILLIONS of tickets sold, blu-rays bought, and streams counted, thousands aren’t a whole hell of a lot.

Return of the Jedi is correctly rated.

Hey, that’s fine! It’s a good sign that he read the responses, which is what matters. Maybe he won’t be so hasty (and loud) in the future, wherever that is.

Seriously, the blending, detail, grain managment, and DNR is very good on this release. Everything looks as close to uniform as it can considering the obstacles to overcome.

It’s easier to blend the two sources together by using a blend of DNR and film grain overlays. The uniformity of the resultant image texture makes the film more immersive, and the eye is less inclined to spot the seams where sources change and change back again. This exact same method was used for the Oohteedee versions, and will be used for the Harmy 3.0s coming soon, too. IIRC he used the same method on the 2.0 versions? I might have that wrong.

It’s not a matter of “SCREW DNR, IN FACT, LET’S ADD SOME DIRT,” it’s a matter of recognizing the pluses and minuses inherent to the source and using the tools at hand to make the most cohesive final product. Even in DNR’d versions of the OT, there’s still film grain present and visible, which makes sense because those movies were shot on film and grain is inherent to that format.

There are probably blu-rays on your shelf right now–blu-rays you think are amazing–that also, after doing a DNR pass or 2 (or 5) add a low-opacity grain overlay to the image. It’s not a weird, fetishistic film-fanatic-only move. It’s done quite a bit both professionally AND in the scrappier realm of amateur film-restoration.

FWIW, the grain plate added to this version is very subtle. It’s not like they filmed a swarm of mosquitoes and hit the clone tool and then just glued it to the blu-ray footage. It’s a very fine grain, I believe matched as closely as possible to a DNR’d version of 4k83 (which still has visible film grain in it) and laid over the UHD source. I’m sure they could speak to how they did it much more clearly (and authoritatively) than I could, but I think that’s what happened. (edit: while I was typing that, that’s EXACTLY what happened, LOL).

It’s not my preferred ROTJ restoration, but the image quality (detail, resolution) is not one of the things I’d fault for that at all: The job they did in blending the footage together - including their use of a grain overlay to match the sources - is pretty great. And I bet if you’d actually WATCHED this version instead of just reading about it, you’d likely have agreed.

Those are bad things, though.

Your tone is different but it feels like the same hand waving lumping together the general audience opinion based on assumptions of their consensus, then when it swings the other way circumstances

So what about the post I initially responded to sounded like the whistlings of a canary in a coal mine, or “undeniable echoes” as such?

Are you devil’s advocating in general, or do you honestly believe there’s some merit in the unrealistic assertion that people “tolerated” TFA to the astronomical success it enjoyed, and that “pent-up rage” is responsible for TLJ’s lesser box-office success? And did you honestly believe one of the four quadrants in a studio’s four-quadrant audience targeting was “online fandom?” I guess I’m not sure what hypothetical outcome you’re protecting for here, and that you think I’m unfairly dismissing out of hand.

“The deeper conversation” is better and more worthwhile when (observably false) appeals to authority are lessened, not allowed (and made room) for. If you (I’m using the royal “you” here, to clarify) have to gin up mistaken realities to support your personal feelings about a work of art, your personal feelings could probably do with more reflection, investigation, and examination before sharing them.

Also: a possible alternate for the repeated trailer music requests might be the slow statement of the main title heard when Han first sees the Falcon from the Solo soundtrack.

this upcoming soundtrack release might provide a higher quality version

Can’t imagine it won’t be. The current version of that track is ripped from the surround channels, isn’t it? This will be taken from the studio recordings directly, not an after-the-fact rescue job from the film mix.

it’s when you say those feelings are only with the fandom you also are making an assumption of reality

It’s not so much an assumption as it is an accumulation of experience. It’s not dismissing fandom to say it’s a small, much less-important voice compared to the general audience’s, it’s observable fact. Fandom isn’t as important as it likes to think it is, and has proven as such over, and over, and over again.

I’ve never said feelings within the fandom are exclusive to the fandom, and have repeatedly admitted there are members of the general audience whose opinion will (and do) overlap with members of the fandom’s. But that doesn’t validate or elevate the fandom’s status beyond their place as a loud and passionate minority of the much larger general audience.

The initial claim was honestly pretty ridiculous and that’s why I spoke up. I don’t understand what’s wrong with that. YouTube comment rhetoric isn’t the same as a cogent argument with legitimate support.

FWIW - I don’t remember if it was this edit that was using a subtle DOTF drop (taken from John Powell’s Solo score) but the deluxe version of that score is going to be released digitally soon, so a better/cleaner rip of that music can be sourced from there when it comes out.

act on instinct said:

I’m with you through most of this, but this absolutely is important to the studio, they want a four quadrant blockbuster.

The four quadrants don’t include “hardcore online fandom” though. The four quadrants are men, women, young, and old. Again, do small slivers of each quadrant coincide with self-described members of fandom? Absolutely. But the utility of fandom to a studio isn’t ticket sales. It’s free marketing. And even in that instance, free marketing is just cherries on top of an expensive pie they’ve baked to do most of the real work.

I get your point about feeling dismissive, and wanting to combat that dismissiveness - but that’s partially why I responded in the first place, because the initial response I was countering was legitimately dismissive based on basically nothing but a small, skewed, extremely online perspective that sought to reframe reality itself in order to make an argument seem more sound. And that’s also why I made sure to point out I’m not suggesting people’s personal opinions about the movies are invalidated by general audience reception, nor should they be. The Force Awakens made 930mil domestic and made more than a few top 10 of the year lists - and I feel like it’s still borderline incoherent in the editing at points and comes very close to fumbling the third act completely, for example. The argument I’m making here isn’t that “the movie was successful and has a Rotten Tomatoes rating of X, therefore you can’t ever complain about the movie.” That’s not my stance. My stance is “You can’t extrapolate from your own personal opinons, attribute them to millions and millions of other people on a whim, and then act as if that extrapolation is now observable, inarguable reality,” especially when what you’re claiming as reality is that a generally accepted, liked, and inarguably successful movie was merely “tolerated” all the way to the bank.

act on instinct said:

The movie should have always been Lando in the first place, Donald Glover was reaching the peak of his fame, all stars aligned, for those that don’t remember This Is America dropped the same month as Solo.

You are 100% right here. The second Glover was cast as Lando I wanted it to become a Lando movie if it could.

“The community” is a very small percentage of the larger audience though. Fandom isn’t as important as it thinks it is, nor does it have the numbers it thinks it does. “Fandom,” and “The Community” don’t represent a lot of power compared to the general audience. Is there some venn diagramming of the “Silent Majority” as you put it and the vocal side of a much, much smaller segment of that audience that self-identifies as “the fandom?” Definitely. Is that venn diagramming all that important to anyone but the people in that self-identified fandom? Not really.

I’m also not sure what it is you’re trying to argue in this context? That if things were different, they’d be different? TFA was liked. A lot. It wasn’t merely “Tolerated” to the level of success it enjoyed.

It’s popularity doesn’t negate or invalidate people’s feelings about the movie though. I’m not saying “Well, it was popular, so your criticisms don’t count” I have problems with TFA as a movie, too. What I’m saying is that trying to reframe its obvious and observable success both financially and critically as a mass exercise in tolerance doesn’t make any sense to me if you’re trying to reflect reality at all, nor does trying to frame TLJ’s reception (which was remarkably good if not AS remarkable as TFA’s) as a result of the general audience’s collective pent-up rage being unleashed.

I still think it’s more than fair to say many opinions on TFA soured over time

Ok, but that’s not really what’s being argued. Opinions didn’t really sour that much between 2015 and 2017, and certainly not to the point where mass outbreaks of “pent up rage” affected the box-office of TLJ to a measurable degree. Even to the extent that some opinions on the film did sour in the two years (more like 1 1/2 considering its popularity) it certainly didn’t sour to the point where anyone could claim its “tolerated” popularity was only kept afloat due to the power of hope that sequels would “fix” it.

This suggested POV seems to be reflecting a small and extremely online subsect of the film’s (exponentially) larger audience.

Also: earlier in the thread, someone suggested Arndt’s character work is what contributed to TFA’s success, but I don’t believe anything about Arndt’s script save for the general structure survived the process. IIRC, the whole reason Kasdan was there was to effectively page-one rewrite everything with Abrams.

People really liked TFA. Nothing makes 900mil+ domestically out of a sense of “tolerance.”

It’s kinda silly to look at the unprecedented success (and critical reception) TFA got and say people only “tolerated” it. They obviously really, really liked it. Liking a movie and hoping the sequel does the stuff you liked EVEN BETTER aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. TLJ didn’t make as much as TFA for multiple reasons, hashed out in multiple discusssions over the last five years, but I don’t think in any way that “pent up rage” from the audience had any real effect on that box-office dip.

Damn, that’s wild!

So basically, the only guaranteed way to get ONLY the 2020 blu-rays is to buy the UK 18-disc blu-ray box-set.

I do wonder if the same thing will start happening here in the US - when stores finally burn through all their 2011 repackages, will Disney start issuing the new discs for restock? Or will they bother to even press up new discs at all and just steer folks to Disney+

In the UK, if you buy a blu-ray only disc, you get the new masters on that blu-ray.

in the US, if you buy a blu-ray only disc, you get the 2011 discs repackaged. The only way to get new masters on blu-ray in the US is to buy a 4K disc that comes with the new masters on the pack-in blu-ray.

Star Wars has always been popular. I don’t even know how you could argue otherwise. The fact it wasn’t AS popular when it was just books and video games (even though those books and video games were almost constantly best sellers) isn’t a sign that it was unpopular, just that it’s MOST popular when its movies.

The idea that “Sweaty nerds” kept it alive has always benefited sweaty nerds sense of self worth more than anything. It’s not all that reflective of reality. Star Wars sold billions of toys, books, video games, and more between 1984 and 1998. Nerds don’t move billions of dollars of ANYTHING by themselves. It’s never happened. You hit billions because regular folks like it.

I don’t think the PT enhanced the OT’s popularity. It probably enhanced ROTJ’s reputation more than anything, I will give it that. But the OT, and more generally, STAR WARS was always super-popular. Probably always will be. Even if now it seems like it’s most popular as TV instead of as a Movie. But then again, you could argue TV is more popular than movies now. And at this point, pretty much everything IS TV right now. So Star Wars is probably in a good place in that regard - like it basically always has been.

THERE it is.

You love to see it.

I have a hard time believing this won’t win best Music.

But a script isn’t the same thing as this overarching “plan” that people keep referencing, which is more accurately a conceptual security blanket for fandom to let them feel like everything is alright, some faceless person at Disney has Kennedy/Abrams/insert-director-here “under control” and they won’t mess up Star Wars.

You can make a good movie out of a subpar script. It’s happened many times. For example: Star Wars. But I’m not even arguing that you don’t need a great script. I’m arguing that constantly suggesting an overarching plan would have made things right is wishful thinking, because this director doesn’t follow plans even when they ARE good, or further, when they’re HIS OWN PLANS.

I don’t want to confuse the idea that “script” = “plan” here, not in the way we’re all constantly talking about “The Plan” as in “Disney should have had a Plan” or “See what happens when Kennedy doesn’t hammer out a Plan.” Do I wish the script had been better? I wish everything had been better. But sometimes collaborative art projects just don’t come together despite everyone’s best intentions. For example: The Phantom Menace.

“The Plan” has become this weird mythological safety net for fandom, and the truth is most everything that fandom loves didn’t really have a plan, and even if there was, it wasn’t really adhered to.

“The Plan” wouldn’t have saved The Rise of Skywalker. It needed good ideas, and all it got were bad ones.

Hal 9000 said:

It’s Disney’s fault for having such a tight deadline. When Carrie passed, they should have pushed it back a year. No one external forced the release date.

Abrams was given a daunting task. I still don’t like what he pulled off, but fault depends on how you frame it.

None of the bad decisions he made were time-based though. He would have had an extra 6-10 months to try finessing his mountain of bad ideas, but they still would have been fundamentally bad. If anything, looking at how that movie was made, it just would have been packed full of even more - and newer - bad ideas than what we got on his deadline.

They also said that Sasha Banks would play Sabine, but she seems to be an original character here.

Does she? She just seems like someone in a hood. That could be Sabine. But it could also be someone we’ve never met before.

But whether some “insider” or not got something right or wrong - Ahsoka is gonna be in this show. No way all that smoke around Rosario Dawson is going to be JUST smoke. Plus Temuera Morrison is definitely in the show. Everyone immediately assumed he was Boba Fett, but it seems a lot more likely to me he’s Rex - especially if Ahsoka is around.

There’s going to be Clone Wars/Rebels characters in this show. Which is fine. It’s all in how it’s executed. Filoni’s shows have consistently figured out how to take ideas that sound pretty bad on their face and make them work. Maul coming back shouldn’t have worked. Ahsoka living past order 66 shouldn’t have worked. The Bendu, etc.

I think if there’s a good way to have Rex, Ahsoka, and Sabine make the leap into live-action on this show, they’ll figure it out, and it’ll probably work just fine.