BlueCardinal

Sad news about Ady choosing to leave this site. I have to say I can appreciate his point of view. His ANH edit introduced me to this site and I have enjoyed following many different OT projects. One source of frustration that we all should take into consideration is that a single thread is not the place to discuss EVERYTHING. There are many ways for all of us to interact as community members. With the ability to start Private Topics with each other and participate in various threads, try not to let “STAR WARS: EP V “REVISITED EDITION” ADYWAN - Suggestions now closed” be the only channel you use to communicate with everyone. We (myself included) have a bad habit of derailing threads (which I could arguably be accused of doing with this very post). An occasional joke is amusing, but when people have arguments and ego contests about topics completely unrelated to Ady’s edit and drag it on for 15+ posts, it gets old having to scroll through it all just to find out the status of ESB:R.

I’m not a moderator and I’m not saying I’m better than anyone else here. I’m just suggesting that we all try to be mindful about where and why we are posting to help keep this thread (and others) relevant and on-topic. That will reduce the likelihood of driving truly talented individuals like Adywan away from this site. I would suspect that he checks into this site to share updates, see if people have questions and, originally, to take suggestions about things he should do with his edit. Having to read through endless conversations filled with name-calling and insults cannot be very inspiring. Be respectful of other members, their work, and their threads. I like reading other people’s opinions and ideas, but let’s make sure we are sharing them in the right place and at the right time. Cheers!

NeverarGreat said:

Anakin is crushed beneath the weight of his failure and becomes a shadow of his former self, and takes his place at the Emperor's side.

This is something that I always felt was missing (among many other things!) in the PT. Even as a child, I was always moved by Vader's line in ROTJ: "It's too late for me, son." We never got to see any remorse from Anakin in the PT, unless you count the horrible "NOOO!". I think there was also a whiny and insincere "What have I done?" when Wingless Windu took his dive out the window.

You could convey this remorse and make the audience think that Anakin dies at the end of Ep.III to still preserve the reveal. Presumably dies in battle or duel? Have it happen off-screen: Obi-Wan tells Yoda/Padme later "I sense a disturbance in the Force. I believe Anakin is gone."

Monroville said:

If you want the focus to be the x-wing, here is an idea:

Being that most critters would flee away from something crashing into their quiet, tranquil swamp life, you should see creature flying away from the x-wing initially... The direction of the spider's movement would move towards the X-wing in the distance, as well as inflect a creature that had already hid itself from the X-wing crashing and now cautiously coming out to investigate.

This is the best way to revise Ady's current footage. Motion centers around the X-wing at the beginning of the shot and then spreads out, then the spider either starts moving or enters from the right of the frame. It is a natural reaction from the indigenous life and reduces the "distraction", though I am comfortable with it in its current form. Nice job, Ady; good suggestion, Monroville.

I think you're over-thinking it. I looks to me like the POV is if the camera is sitting right on top of the engine to give us a clear view of R2. Zooming out or backing further away would cause the engine to come into frame and obscure our view. While Ronster's mock-up looks nice, the engine part he has added would need to shift to the left. Given the angle of the back window of the cockpit, the front of the left engine would need to be further left in the frame than the right one, which is already hidden behind R2. Doing so would thereby cover up the lower half of R2's dome. Just MHO.

Discostu said:

Harmy said:

That is not what the BD looks like. But if there were scenes looking like that, I would simply add some grain.

While this would make the picture look more natural at first glance, it doesn't bring back the image detail that was lost in the DNR process. I know that there are some cases in the trilogy where you added digital grain but I don't really see a real benefit in this. It's just adding something artificial to the image instead of bringing back the original grain and the image details that were removed with it.

I think it's more of a last resort to remove the plastic-looking surfaces caused by DNR, especially in skin. The goal is always to preserve as much of the original detail as possible, but there's only so much you can do when it has been scrubbed and smeared away by DNR.

I think pulling off something like this would be very difficult for this simple reason: If Luke is successful and circumvents the creation of the Empire, then the OT loses its significance. If he inadvertently spends the PT trying to prevent the Empire, but somehow does things that cause it to be created anyway, then the PT loses its significance because its events didn't change anything. The latter, though, could be an interesting narrative on destiny or the nature of the Force, depending on how you wanted to spin it.

That was my big beef with X-Men: Days of Future Passed. The only purpose of the movie was to bring back characters that were killed off several movies ago. Likely, Fox realized "Hey, we can't have any new stories with these characters because they're supposed to be dead. Let's put Wolverine in a time travel story so we can undo the dumb choices we made in writing the previous movies." In other words, it was a big **** you to the fans and to all of the movies that followed X-Men 2. Not exactly the best way to manage your film franchise, IMHO.

RicOlie_2 said:

I think you're in the wrong thread. ;)

First of all, ^ this. If you are convinced the prequels cannot be done without spoilers, simply say so and just let us have our fun by brainstorming. :)

Secondly, I agree with Sunrider101. We need that "second apprentice" character to allow Obi-Wan to maintain some credibility in the OT. The culmination of Anakin being seduced by the Dark Side happens when, in a final showdown with "Xanatos", he lets his anger take over so that he can win the battle. After he survives, he realizes that anger and hatred are the only way to truly gain victory. We don't see who wins, but Palpatine taunts him the same way he taunts Luke in RotJ. We see the hatred on Anakin's face before they both fall from view. Then Obi-Wan's explanation to Luke in RotJ still makes sense.

As far as central vs secondary characters, Anakin would still be a central character, but the story would just be told more from Obi-Wan's point of view. Kind of like Professor X and Magneto in X-Men First Class.

nic777 said:

the thing is the Star Wars nine episode saga is about the Skywalker clan. That's it. That's who we focus on, that's who we follow. No Skywalker, no care! Lucas himself established this pattern and theme with 4, 5, and 6. When A New Hope starts off we see Vader and Leia, then we go to Luke, then back to Leia, then Luke again, some stuff with Vader and back to Leia and so it goes. Thats it. We see the same pattern in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. All the major points of all the films deal with a Skywalker. Thats why the OT worked so well becuz it all focused on one point. Doing other stories that change that pretty much makes it not "star wars" in the vein of the OT. 

I agree with RicOlie_2. Yes, the overarching story is about the Skywalker clan, but remember that we as an audience don't know on the first viewing that all of these characters we are seeing in Ep IV are related. None of us know about the father/son until the end of Empire, and the sister reveal doesn't happen until RotJ. You can make the PT a hero's story about Obi-Wan, but it is redone in a way that makes us learn more and care more about him. You still have Anakin and Padme, and can even show Luke being born. It still follows the Skywalkers, but they're strong secondary characters. This helps preserve the reveals of the OT by allowing us to focus on Obi-Wan, keeping the Skywalkers present throughout, but not connecting all of the dots until Ep V.

Monroville said:

As far as Yoda is concerned, I developed the impression that he was supposed to be a lot like Pai Mei, in that he did not exile himself to Dagobah so much as he was always there.  Maybe not all Jedi would go there, but those seen with great potential would be sent there for the highest level of Jedi training.

I have always thought along these lines. Even if you still have the Jedi Temple in the middle of Coruscant (which I think is out of place), Yoda wouldn't be there. He would be meditating on Dagobah, communicating telepathically to the Jedi Council. If you're willing to go to that slimy mudhole for a chance to be trained by Master Yoda, you are one dedicated Jedi! Plus, his absence in the PT would preserve the reveal in ESB.

brash_stryker said:

It would be ironic if Anakin turned to the dark side in order to try to become immortal, but it was the Jedi teachings that held the secret all along!

^THIS.

brash_stryker for the win.

Just throwing in my two cents on a few of the topics discussed here.

Fett - stop the Fett fan service. He's menacing in ESB because he doesn't say much and doesn't take any crap. He even questions Vader in the carbonite chamber (ballsy, isn't he?) There's nothing wrong with him never being seen in ROTJ because he made his delivery to Jabba, collected his money, and he's off chasing down some other poor schmuck.

Force ghosts - I read all of the posts and agree with many of the attempts to explain it all. It just hit me, Obi Wan says, "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." He has learned a deeper connection to the Force than Anakin ever did (hence Vader's surprise). We see lots of jedi bodies in the PT because they never escalated to that level. Even those on the Jedi Council hadn't figured it out. Yoda did because Yoda's amazing. Obi-Wan figured it out through meditation and discipline in his years in hiding on Tatooine. Maybe he also took midicholrian injections [ducks and covers]. If you leave out the whole nonsense about "teaching Obi-Wan to commune with Qui-Gon's ghost" in ROTS, it's a plausible explanation. I don't think Anakin deserves a force ghost at the end of ROTJ, but it does give it a nice happy ending.

Absolutely cannot wait to see the finished product. Just seeing the change in the thread title makes me shiver with antici..... pation!

timdiggerm said:

It's not a great love triangle, but it's enough for Han to be confused at the end of ROTJ.

I think the whole Han jealousy thing was just a flimsy way for George to set up Han's surprise when he finds out what the audience already knows. With as much as he and Leia had shared up to that point, including the "I love you / I know" exchanges (and him copping a feel after she gets shot in the arm), he's either really paranoid or the victim of a mediocre script.

Ronster said:

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this. 

Just rewatched the asteroid field scene. I understand the perspective argument, but we don't have enough information to dissect the physics. You don't know how fast the MF is flying, whether the big one is stationary or moving, the direction or speed at which the smaller ones are moving, etc. We see the MF approaching "one of the big ones" through the cockpit, and then we see just how massive it is in the next shot. That's all we really need to enjoy the scene.

Could it be tweaked? Possibly by having it remain roughly the same size the whole time we see it through the cockpit. I've never had any trouble accepting it as presented, though, especially since it is only on screen for a few seconds before the exterior shot.

Leia was never interested in Luke, so there's no love triangle. Her first impression of him was lackluster: "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" The kiss is long enough to do what she wants: get under Han's skin. Luke & Leia don't know they're siblings at that point, and it doesn't mean anything to her anyway. It works as is.

I've personally never had a problem with the Chosen One prophecy. It's one of the few things that George didn't make a character explain in simple terms, but it makes perfect sense to me.

From my POV, Anakin DID bring balance to the Force, just as predicted. The problem is that the Jedi misinterpreted it. They thought "balance" meant peace and harmony, but by the time Vader was finished in EpIII, there was Yoda & Obi-Wan and Palpatine & Vader. It was a perfect balance of two-on-two. The misinterpretation could have been an interesting element to delve into more deeply, but like with many things in the PT, George just didn't bother.

What might be explored in the ST (though I doubt it), is that Luke created an imbalance when he was the only one left; it's only natural for more evil to come lurking to "balance" the Force again.

What do you think: interesting... or nonsense?

I agree with DuracellEnergizer. That's a good start that provides character exposition that is MUCH more interesting than the existing PT. I like how the characters have relationships that logically carry into the OT without being obvious, especially the link of having Obi-Wan as Bail Organa's advisor. In the existing version, it sure is a good thing that Bail thought to fly by the Jedi Temple on his way out of town in EpIII. Otherwise, they would have had to hide Leia on someone else's planet.

^ This. The barricade on Coruscant (which could be accomplished by a shot of the planet with the Trade Federation donut ships from EpI surrounding it), makes Anakin's trip to Mustafar a reckless but valiant effort to save everyone.

To your parallel, Luke didn't go to the Death Star to destroy it. He went to try to convert Anakin back to good. If he succeeded, they could take down the Emperor together and restore peace to the galaxy, but he knew he was risking his life to do so. This is very similar to what Anakin would be doing in your suggestion: taking down the leadership of the opposing forces. What makes yours better is that Anakin knows it's pretty much a suicide mission no matter the outcome.

"See, the point is that they rhyme, so it's like poetry." - GL

And yes, remove the dialog from the Ady/Obi duel. For too many reasons to list here.

3fW- said:

This tipping point is likely to come soon because the majority of the work on the revisited saga has yet to begin. Without ever increasing financial support this project will either take the rest of Ady's life or it'll just fade away. It needs support and patience.

The ideal situation is an always increasing fan base who donate and spread the word and patiently wait until the work is done. Honestly, can you see anybody except the man whose hobby this is staying strong for another, say 15 years?

If you are truly a supporter of the project, how about a call to action? Rather than say, "Oh, gosh, I don't think there will be enough support to keep this going," are there ways you think you might be able to help encourage an always increasing fan base? I'm a huge fan of this project and my friends and relatives are probably tired of hearing me geek out over it. Even just by word of mouth and a few online posts, you may find that you have more influence than you realize.

Revisited and Harmy's Despecialized have become my two favorite versions of the OT (with obvious intended differences). Harmy just released ESB:DE which has made me even MORE excited about Ady's ESB:R. In following those two threads, I have been reading posts from different team members about what components they are providing and how they have created or restored them. Instead of shrugging and saying, "Why is it taking so long?", it has INSPIRED me to see what I can do to contribute. I plan on sending PMs to some of them to ask questions about the technical aspects of what they have done. I want to brush up on my own audio/video editing skills and see how I can volunteer to help.

I think you and I are viewing this project from very similar perspectives. Unfortunately, I think it's easy for people to get rather selfish about these kinds of things (especially those without any skin in the game). We continue to see comments from those who are becoming bored or impatient with Ady's "apparent lack of progress" because ESB:R has not been released on the time frame they would like. I find it more motivating than disheartening, though. I would encourage all fans to "ask not what Revisited can do for you, but what you can do for Revisited!"

G E Predator said:

 Like if he's there to avenge Padme for four years earlier when Viceroy Gunray put out a hit on his wife?

The avenge angle is still a personal vendetta, and something a Jedi wouldn't do. I can't imagine Yoda from ESB hunting someone down to chop their head off for a wrong they did to him years before. 

I interpret Bingo's suggestion to mean that Anakin hasn't turned yet, he's this great hero that everybody loves, and he knows he going into something dangerous from which he might not return. He would be telling Padme, "I'm doing this because if I succeed it will help everyone, and Palpatine says nobody can do it but me. I might not make it back, but I want you to know that I love you and if I die, our son can carry on in my place one day."

It's noble and admirable - sacrificing himself for the fate of so many others, instead of "I'm gonna go kill all the guys me and my new boss are mad at. Because I'm the bad guy now. See? I have yellow eyes and my scowl is deeper than before. I'm the bad guy. Watch me kill everybody. Did you pick up on the fact that I'm now the bad guy?"

Even if we kept everything very similar to the PT, this is a scene in my head that could be placed in the Episode II timeline and captures Anakin's curiosity and growing power: he and Obi-Wan are in a battle, let's say on Utupau, on a ledge fighting off a dozen battle droids. As Anakin knocks two droids back with his lightsaber, their blasters go off and the shots hit the rocks above Obi-Wan's head. Seeing the danger, Anakin force-pulls Obi-Wan out of the way just before the large rocks smash the ground where Obi-Wan had been standing. Anakin then brings his hands in towards himself, and emits a double-handed Force-push (the motion would be kind of like a Ryu fireball in the Street Fighter video game). It knocks all remaining battle droids back, shattering them. He stares at the broken pieces with a mix of joy and awe on his face, as this was the first time he had made (or Obi-Wan had seen) a Force-push of that magnitude. Obi-Wan gets up off the ground and scolds him for breaking my new Jedi rule #1: never use Force powers on another Jedi, and #2: always keep control of your emotions.

This made-up scene accomplishes several things. 1) Anakin is dangerous because he has greater power than most (or all) other Jedi and he's curious about pushing his limits; 2) He let his emotions take over and disobeyed tried and true laws of the Jedi; and 3) The audience sees that he has power beyond his control, but it is being used arguably in a good way (as opposed to murdering women and children). We still like him, but we're also a little fearful of him.

To GL: this is a subtle thing we like to use in writing called "foreshadowing".

I'm not sure that the PT would need to be drastically different form what we got, just made better and eliminating the nonsense. You could still start at a somewhat happy point, where the majority of the galaxy is at peace. The trilogy should gradually build in tension and drama until the climax of the third film, much as it tried to do originally.

For simplicity's sake, I concur that Episode I could be something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y.This guy has some great suggestions on how a few tweaks to the current version could be vastly improved. I would add that nothing should take place on Tatooine in the PT (why would you hide the bad guy's son on his home planet? Shouldn't you try to be a little deceptive?!). We would also need to throw in an apprentice of Obi-Wan's (let's call him Starkiller) who has already been in training when Anakin comes along and who is a little jealous of the new kid.

Ep II picks up about where AotC did - Anakin is growing in skill and has been on many successful missions. He's a completely different character than what we were given, because he has to be noble, likeable, and charming. But he is always curious about how much more he can do, and Obi-Wan has to do most of the training himself because Yoda (whom we never see) and the Jedi Council are still fearful about giving Anakin too much freedom. During this film, we see Starkiller get pulled away from the Jedi by a dark-robed figure to join the other side, just in the way the Emperor tried to lure Luke to the dark side. Obi-Wan realizes this through the Force and admits to the other Jedi that his apprentice has turned to the dark side. Keep the plot about Anakin falling in love, but make it believable. She should still be from a planet other than Alderaan, though, for the same logic used above for Tatooine.

Ep III plays out similarly as before, except that Anakin is a likeable hero throughout. The Jedi are figuring out who the dark-robed mastermind is and tracking him down. Meanwhile, a hooded figure (we know it to be Starkiller) has been wiping out Jedi. Anakin wants the glory for being the one who tracks down Starkiller and puts and end to the conflict, so the Emperor plants information that leads Anakin to a trap. He, Obi-Wan, and a team of Jedi go to investigate and are separated. Anakin is alone in a dark room with Starkiller and the Emperor, similar to the throne room in RotJ. He and Starkiller begin fighting and he realizes he can't win. The Emperor encourages him to give in to his anger and hate, because it's the only way he can overpower Starkiller. Anakin begins fighting back much more aggressively, and he and Starkiller are evenly matched. The climactic moment: we see their two silhouettes fighting; the Emperor Force-pushes them, disarming both. He blasts one of them with lighting and yells "Finish him!" The standing silhouette Force-pulls the red lightsaber to himself, ignites it, and slays his opponent. Obi-Wan and the other Jedi feel the impact from the next room through the Force, and one turns to Obi-Wan and says, "Your apprentice is dead." The surviving fighter, smoking from getting hit by some of the lightning used on his opponent, is weak and breathing heavily. He and the Emperor escape. The Jedi, knowing the mission has failed and the enemy has escaped, retreat.

In the remaining scenes of Ep III, we see a robed, masked version of Darth Vader in charge of hunting down Jedi. Remaining Jedi are told to hide out on remote systems until they can find a safe place to regroup (which never happens as Yoda and Obi-Wan end up being the only ones left). Padme gives birth to twins. We know one is a boy, we don't know the other's gender and neither are named. She encourages Obi-Wan to help keep the children separated for their safety as she is invited by Bail Organa to live on Alderaan. We see Obi-Wan taking the boy to Owen and Beru on Tatooine. Roll credits.

Bingowings said:

Platitude said:

Fair points, I dunno.  Padme dying really screws things up.  Its funny how Lucas was really focused on making some random things line up with the OT, like how Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber, but the larger things like this were generally ignored.

 

Only it doesn't because Luke's father's bequest of his magic sword to his child is a mythically resonant plot trigger (King Arthur etc) and yet in ROTS Anakin just drops the latest in a long line of weapons after having his limbs hacked off.

I personally would have Anakin use only one sword as a Jedi (no comedy 'weapon damage' in AOTC) and leave it with Padme. If his mission to Musthavealeak failed his child would one day wield Excalibur. That way Vader can use a red saber.

That all makes perfect sense. It would work if only Anakin were a noble, likeable character, and that his mission to Musthavealeak was (at least in his mind) for the greater good of the people and not just as Palpatine's personal hitman.

On the flip side, make Obi-Wan force-grab/steal Anakin's lightsaber from him. "If this guy's going to be a bad guy, I'll at least try to help his son one day take him down." Then it makes Obi-Wan's story to Luke even more fabricated: "Yes, this Vader guy DID murder your father, he WAS a good friend, and he really DID want you to have this one day."

I'll confess that as I child my brain wandered around the Clone Wars references and thought of wars where bad guys cloned Jedi. This was especially deceptive because you could be walking alongside Obi Wan and not know if it was him or an evil clone of him until he attacked. As an adult, that seems rather lame now, but it was what I originally thought it could have meant.

I think many of the points made here are the start to making these films watchable (though complete remakes are probably the better way to go). If we're going to try to salvage what's already there, I agree with everyone's points about trying to keep some secrets and make it a succinct story in Episode order. I hate that GL had such little respect for his fans that he included every possible spoiler he could in EpIII, save Young Han Solo. Hey, whatever lets him wrap this thing up and make a ton of cash is all that matters.

I agree that we should nix Padme's "losing the will to live", for all the previously mentioned reasons. Also, I wouldn't address Leia at all. Maybe reveal that Padme's having twins; no genders, she doesn't name them, but we see Ben taking Luke to Owen and Beru. That at least leaves the question mark of "who is Luke's twin?" until we get to the reveal in RotJ.

As far as Anakin, lots of great ideas here, though some will be difficult to pull off. I have a few thoughts about how to rework the story, but it's probably more than a Revisited effort. Can anyone recommend a good thread for script re-write/new story ideas?