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Belbucus

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Join date
13-Mar-2005
Last activity
24-Dec-2017
Posts
90

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Post
#253718
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253718/action/topic#253718
Time
You are assuming these are sample accurate. They are not. They originate from 2 entirely separate analogue sources and therefore could not be. My tolerance in synching these by ear was in the neighborhood of 10 samples - as the Dolby Stereo track had a constant tendency to randomly drift ahead and behind the DC48 track. I was most critical when audio had to exactly match to something in the picture – like lipsynch. If you were to examine waveforms at several different points and find a consistent offset of minus 108 samples with respect to the DC48, then I would say there is a problem. Otherwise, I would consider the coarse offset to be the same for both.
Post
#253550
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253550/action/topic#253550
Time
Originally posted by: Mallwalker

I have successfully muxed STAR WARS with the '93 PCM (first 15 minutes only) and with the '77 Dolby Stereo (entire film).
No problems with either, but the offsets were different:
48,851 samples + "DC48 DVD.wav"
48,743 samples + "DS48 DVD.wav"


They should be identical. Once lined up, running side by side, I used the first sample of the '93 PCM GOUT as the reference for both.

By what means are you determining your offsets?

Post
#252100
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252100/action/topic#252100
Time
In response to DuneDain:

Belbucus: Ok, so if a 1.017 second delay is applied to the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from A New Hope to the video from the 2006 DVD release of A New Hope, then that will perfectly synch the PCM soundtrack to the video, exactly the same as the official DD 2.0 track is now; and the same goes for the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from The Empire Strikes Back to the video from the 2006 DVD release of The Empire Strikes Back, except a .948 second delay is used in this case, correct?
Correct. As I said, no one has actually plugged these in yet to verify it, but they should be right


Also, these GOUT sound samples that Moth3r sent you, are they from the NTSC Region 1 version of the 2006 Star Wars DVD set?

NTSC, yes.


Yeah, if we could get the PCM soundtrack files with the exact correct audio delay for the video of each movie of the trilogy from the GOUT 2006 Star Wars DVD set already built into the soundtrack files and have them posted in that form to filefactory, that would be great!

It's not much work on my end, it's just that Mallwalker and whomever else would have to repost everything. If they are willing, I'd be happy to.
Post
#252050
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252050/action/topic#252050
Time
Moth3r has sent me samples of the first 5 seconds of both the ANH and ESB GOUT AC3 tracks to determine the exact offset. Although not confirmed yet, the offset delays I came up with are +1.017 seconds for ANH, and + .948 seconds for ESB. He has not sent me anything for Jedi yet.

Again, the delay of 1.017 seconds can be applied to the 35mm Dolby Stereo and any of the forthcoming soundtrack releases for ANH as well.

If anyone is having trouble adding the delay, I could reissue these with it built in. It would however, require everything to be reposted.
Post
#251584
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251584/action/topic#251584
Time
IN RESPONSE TO MOTH3R'S LAST:

If you were to receive a WAV file containing the first few seconds of the DVD audio with the correct delay, would you be able to tell us the exact figure to apply?

I can’t see why not – excellent idea! Would likely need to repeat the exercise with ESB and ROTJ as well.



That's strange, since both tracks are from the same source. So in theory, an AC-3 track properly encoded from your PCM audio could sound better than the actual DVD!


“Properly encoded” is the key phrase here, I think. Then yes.



My bad with the dynamic range comment. What you actually said was that you expected the '85 mix to have a wider stereo image and more low frequency content. Does this ring true?


If the 70mm 6-track/’93 mix and the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix were both sourced from the same 4-track master, then it’s clear that left and right channels were panned in about 40% in the case of the latter. Put another way, the left/right elements are noticeably wider in the 70mm/’93 mix than in the 35mm Dolby Stereo.

I HAVE noticed that the ’85 remix has a wider soundstage than the 35mm Dolby Stereo. I have yet to compare it with the ’93 mix to see if they match with regard to stereo imaging. Again, the comment regarding low frequency content escapes me. I’ve always thought of the ’85 as being much closer to the Dolby Stereo in overall spectrum. I will have an opportunity to compare all of this soon when I start synching the ’85 to the GOUT.
Post
#251486
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251486/action/topic#251486
Time
THE MOTH3R Q&A 5-PACK!

Have you synched Empire and Jedi so that no padding is required at the beginning this time?

With Empire, I started where the noise floor began in the waveform (which happened to be roughly a second before the Fox logo cue), thinking that this might be related to the offset required. This did not hold true for Jedi, where there were only a few milliseconds of noise floor at the head. My guess is that they will both need to be adjusted.



On Empire, you say that sonically it is superior to the GOUT audio. Is the sub-standard GOUT audio due to a difference in the transfer or mix, or just the effects of compression to 192kbps AC-3?

Perhaps both. The PCM of Empire is audibly and visibly more dynamic. I also came across at least one example where the actual timbre was different.



FYI, Dolby Digital soundtracks are mastered so that the "normal" listening level of dialogue (where people are speaking in a normal voice) is at -31 dB.


I’ve never heard a db figure associated with this, I’d be curious as to the source. If it’s a Dolby standard, then it’s likely referenced to 0 db = 85dbc in a properly calibrated theater (or home theater). Dialogue level is a great absolute in setting playback level. I heard it referred to once as “associated level”. While nobody really knows how loud an exploding sail barge is, everybody has very much the same notion as to where a comfortable dialogue level should sit, because it’s something everybody can “associate” with.



Belbucus - just thought of another question: you said previously you expected the '85 mix would have more dynamic range than the '77 mix. Is this the case?


I don’t remember making the statement but that’s nothing new. If I did, I would have been wrong. From a glance at the waveform it appears to be the least dynamic of all – including the mono mix. Maybe the thinking at the time was to optimize it for the “pre-home theater” / lower-volume crowd – who knows?



And I presume it's not as dynamic as the 70mm-derived '93 mix?


(See above)


Post
#251419
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251419/action/topic#251419
Time
Just finished Jedi. Again, alot more re-alignment required than ANH. Quality superiority compared to GOUT more subtle than with Empire (no idea why Empire's GOUT audio suffered more than the other two, only the highly trained technicians at LF can explain that!)

These should hopefully start materializing this week, as well as the "lowered level" 35mm Dolby Stereo.
Post
#251404
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251404/action/topic#251404
Time
Just finished the synch of Empire '93 PCM track to the GOUT. MANY more sections needed re-aligning compared to the previous one. The sonic superiority however is much more dramatic. I'll hopefully get Jedi done today as well, and get them posted through the usual channels.

One note on the 35mm Dolby Stereo that's been posted already: The overall level was set so peaks fall in the neighborhood of "0". This is just good practice when transferring analogue material into the digital domain. However, because of the intentionally limited dynamics of this mix, when played side by side with the '93 mix (which also peaks at "0", but with far more dynamic range), it will seem noticeably louder.

I think it might be more appropriate to issue a second version of this at a reduced level referenced to the ’93 PCM, to better represent its place in the larger scheme (sorry Mallwalker!). I would also propose that the forthcoming issues of the ’85 remix and the mono mix follow this convention.
Post
#251340
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/251340/action/topic#251340
Time
Originally posted by: Spock

Glad to here you're working on the '85 mix. Any news on the mono mix restoration?


The mono mix has been sidelined momentarily awaiting the resolution of QuickTime file synch discrepancy. In this particular case, I need an accurate video reference to proceed (see http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=6714 for details).

A couple of members here have been kind enough to help me out with this. I hope to have it resolved soon.
Post
#248889
Topic
Help Wanted: an MP3 of the 1.0 mono mix from the pre-ANH projects?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/248889/action/topic#248889
Time
As I have been working with this side by side with the stereo mixes, I find that there is something different in maybe 1 out of 5 scenes on average - added, missing, or just different background sfx / different foley effects (footsteps- enviornmental sounds) / slight offsets in dialogue positioning / occasional alternate takes on select lines of dialogue - in short, lots of stuff that has gone undocumented. It has actually may the synching process far more complex than I had anticipated.
Post
#248852
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/248852/action/topic#248852
Time
Originally posted by Dunedain

Belbucus: Is this sync of the Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack with the 2006 DVD of A New Hope exactly the same as the official soundtrack that comes on the DVD? I mean, if you watched the official DVD with the DD 2.0 soundtrack and then the same DVD video but with this PCM soundtrack instead, would you be able to tell anywhere during the movie where the timing of the soundtrack is off on the PCM version, or is the syncing so exact even you couldn't tell the difference?


As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the PCM track should be sample-for-sample identical to the DVD's AC3 track. The only spot that I could not 100% confirm was at the DVD layer change, but so far no one has cited this as being a issue. So yes, once lined up, the PCM track should synch exactly with the AC3 track from start to finish. As far as lining it up, one should take note of the delay offsets mentioned in the previous 2 posts (roughly a second). Once agreed upon, this offset can be reliably applied to any of the forthcoming soundtracks when I issue them (Dolby Stereo, Mono, and '85 Mix - probably in that order).