Anchorhead

Tyrphanax said:

Bingowings said:

Darth Lucas said:
…
Snoke on the other hand took me way out of the movie the CGI was so obvious.

I’m convinced that the fakeness of the holograph is deliberate for future narrative reasons.

This was my thought as well.

I’m not quite sure how it could be explained within the story, but it’s become my thought also. I get the feeling he’s being manipulated from someone he’s never met.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Anchorhead said:

it was little more than a way to show he wasn’t going to be content as a farmer.

Much as we all like some mild Lucas bashing from time to time 😉 SW77 does say that Luke’s father was murdered by another Jedi (Regardless of any other information imparted in ESB and ROTJ). So I think it’s pretty logical to assume Owen/Lucas was refering to this when he grimly said/wrote “That’s what I’m affraid of” rather than just refrencing Luke’s dislike of farming.

It’s the same thing.

Lord Haseo said:

TV’s Frink said:

I love how Maz asks “Who’s the girl?” and then cut before Han can answer.

I don’t like it as much as

[Beru said:]
Luke’s just not a farmer Owen; he has too much of his father in him.
[Owen said:]
That’s what I’m afraid of

That Owen\Beru exchange is nearly throw-away in the context of the 1977 story. Years before the familial universe shrinking, it was little more than a way to show he wasn’t going to be content as a farmer. It foreshadows something Lucas had no intention of ever addressing in his one-film story.

Edit; I mean - what Bingo said. 😉
I’m going to have to give this whole reading to the end of the page thing a try.

Bingowings said:

Anchorhead said:

Don’t we already have a thread devoted to voicing disappointments with The Force Awakens? Yeah, I thought we did. Want to discuss problems and dislikes with it in this thread? - by all means. Want to thread-crap? - no.

We also have threads devoted to what we liked about the film, about the effects, about possible fan edit ideas etc so if we don’t talk about aspects covered by other threads here what’s this thread for?

It was inevitable that the two threads (spoiler and spoiler free) would split but personally I think as long as it’s on topic and within the rules people should be able to post with what their gut is telling them.

I agree fully. What I removed had zero to do with the film.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thread+crapping removed.

Jumping in on the score discussion a bit late. I bought it early and listen to it several times a week. I agree with the bulk of the thoughts here. It’s less melodic that some of his other work and in some cases a bit less grand. I’m fine with that. I don’t need an Imperial March every time out - or the one that seems to come up constantly as his pièce de résistance - Duel Of The Fates *genuflect*. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucas picked that name.

Far and away, the pieces that speak to me are Rey’s Theme, The Scavenger (where it’s first heard), and The Jedi Steps. I’d put those three pieces up against anything Williams has ever done as far as depth and emotion. The simple but deep Rey’s Theme reminds me of his score for Memoirs Of A Geisha, which I still think is his best work.

I also really like the brief call-backs to the OT scores. There are a few that are quite subtle, but they strike just the right emotional chord. They don’t hang on the moment or take it over. They’re just enough to hint at events long ago. There are a few in The Falcon. Most of them just a few seconds. Nicely done.

The rest of the score seems very much in line with his Indiana Jones work, to the point of sounding interchangeable. This fits right in with the thoughts of eiyosus and Dominic on it being a more percussive and rhythmic score. Aside from the three pieces I mentioned, the score is more geared to accompanying the action as opposed to long introspective shots. I prefer those types of shots, so it only makes sense that I prefer the music that gives them depth. As an indicator of my thoughts on the score, I only copied 11 of the pieces over to my car CD\iPod\work computer, etc.

Jesus, is there any topic you guys can’t devolve into an argument about further discussing the thought of accepting weather or not to weigh the pros and cons of debating opinions?

I suspect I’ll be cleansing this down to a page shortly.

NeverarGreat said:
I am genuinely confused as to why you would think that Ben’s presence near Luke is coincidence. BECAUSE Ben knew Luke’s dad, he has his lightsaber. BECAUSE Luke’s father wanted Luke to have it at a certain time…

It was a coincidence for which we were never given any real explanation. Ben saying he knew his father does not explain much beyond - he knew his father and for whatever reason, he now lives near Luke. It was glossed over quickly and discarded as the story continued within the film. Those slowly unfolding expositions you cite came many years later and in one instance from another writer in the 1980s. Knowing the prequel story decades later doesn’t mean it was well-written or explained back in 1977.

Ben lives near Luke to watch over him.

That was never even remotely suggested in 1977. Ben said he knew his dad, had his old weapon, and asked if he would help the princess. In 1977 the audience was left to infer who Ben was and why he was there. If they even chose to bother.

you seem very willing to accept that there is a reason that Tekka lives near Rey, despite there being far less to go on in this film than in Star Wars, yet you don’t accept that there was a reason Ben lived near Luke? My bafflement increases.

Let me help with your bafflement and address this one last time. I do accept it. In fact, I’m very willing to accept that both films give little or no explanation for the characters’ proximity to each other and the audience is left to draw their own conclusion, if they choose.

For the record; I very much enjoy that aspect of both films. I do not need a ham-fisted Lucastyle® explanation on every bit of minutia.

Now, with that in mind; Finding out decades later who Ben was and why he lived near Luke does not at all mean it was explained in 1977. It wasn’t. I was there.

I give the same pass to both films because I enjoy them both. That’s something the TFA haters are not willing to do. For them, what was once ok and mysterious is now somehow a sure sign that Abrams and Disney don’t know how to make a proper film. It’s a pre-hater’s argument and it’s weak.

ZkinandBonez said:

(This picture also makes me wonder what the heck “Veg-meat” is supposed to mean. Is it fake meat like Tofu?)

I would imagine so. Something like Seitan; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food)
Just had some for lunch myself about 20 minutes ago (Field Roast hot dog).

In a military operation or remote-world outpost where there isn’t an available source for agriculture, it would make perfect sense to have long-term dried rations.

Ben-Solo said:

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Rey used the force on JB-007 I think he wanted her for himself when really I was the one who had plans for her. Anyways to make a long story short I don’t expect him to talk I expect him to die.

For me, he bordered on distraction. I knew he was in there for a scene, so I was subconsciously trying to figure out which one he was during my first viewing. His voice gave it away of course and I was able to refocus. I was glad to have it out of the way.

Still, a good scene made even better by the fact that it doesn’t work at first. She’s not quite there yet and has to try again. I thought that was handled well.

I’ll post a few as they come to mind, but I’ll start with Maz. I dug her sort of announcing Han coming into her place with Haaaan Solooo! It sounds at first as a sort of alarmed warning\heads-up\how dare you, but you soon realize she’s just busting his chops. Reminds me of my years in NYC. Like going into your local watering hole and having the owner or bartender goof on you when you walk in. She was clearly glad to see him and seems like she would do anything for the two of them.

She’s obviously more than just a bar owner. She’s connected and Han took them there for a reason. I’m sorry we didn’t get to see Lupita, but her gift and her talent still came through.

NeverarGreat said:
As to Ben being on the same planet, the reasons for him being there are given both in the Radio Drama, and as subtext within the actual movie. Obi-wan was the teacher to Luke’s father, and was tasked with giving Luke the lightsaber when he came of age. I don’t see how anyone could chalk Ben’s presence up to mere coincidence.

In the 1977 film, it’s an unexplained coincidence. Ben just happens to have known his dad, just happens to live near him, just happens to have his saber, the droids just happen to free-fall near him on the planet, and they just happen to be sold to Luke.

In the radio drama (my personal canon, by the way), it’s little more than a suggestion and far from an explanation. It was over twenty years before it was explained.

NeverarGreat
Tekka on the other hand has only a tenuous association with Luke due to his possession of the map, and gives no indication that he is aware of Rey’s existence.

At what point does being the only person in the galaxy who knows the whereabouts of Luke become only tenuous? There appears to be a very important reason why Tekka knows where Luke lives and why he himself lives near Rey.

NeverarGreat said:
There were indeed coincidences in the OT, especially Star Wars, but they seem to be of another kind. There was a reason for Ben and Luke to be in the same area on a desert planet, since Ben was watching over Luke. There are potentially good reasons why the Droids land near Luke and Ben, since they could have Ben’s coordinates and were piloting the pod in that direction (as the Radio Drama suggests).

The explanations you point weren’t explained until many years Later. In the case of the pod landing near Luke, it was a fix by a writer other than Lucas. In the story presented in 1977, that pod is in an obvious free fall. The NPR drama came out four years later and Ben’s reason for being on the same planet wasn’t explained until decades later. If the first film gets a pass because things are assumed, or left unexplained for decades, or there are “potentially good reasons”, then the new film should be given the same pass.

joefavs said:

^Agreed. It’s been thrown around so much and so carelessly that it’s lost its specific meaning and become an excuse for dismissing something without bothering to articulate.

Exactly. It’s no different than Fanboy and Fanfic. Internet laziness for trolls.

Bingowings said:

I’d touch Poe with my barge pole.

Bit of a man-crush myself. Truth be told, if I were that rugged and good looking, I’d be the mayor. That’s power you can’t buy. 😉

Bingowings said:
As for something new to moan about has anyone mentioned how odd the crawl looked?
To me it seemed more yellow than usual and the stars were much brighter or was that just because it wasn’t some crappy blu-ray transfer? 😄

Prior to this, it had been quite some time since I’d seen a Star Wars film in the theater (or at all really), so I don’t have a thought on the tone of yellow in the crawl. Seemed fine to me.

I did think the stars looked a bit more intense than I’d remembered, but again, no frame of reference. I thought they looked great. If there was any more than normal twinkling, I figured it was just my contacts needing to be changed. By the third viewing, I had changed them and I can’t say for sure anything was different. That sort of minutia isn’t anything to which I give any thought. I’m there for the adventure.

imperialscum said:

No. I eat meat. The effort of our ancestors should be respected. They didn’t bring us to the top of the food chain so that we will eat grass now. They would surely curse the vegetarian idiots.

As a vegetarian, I have similar thoughts about carnivores. But I use my inside voice.

Here are all four IMAX posters together, in order of release. The artist is Dan Mumford. The first one (Rey) will be my DVD case insert. Great stuff and perfectly captures the part of the film that speaks to me.

Lord Haseo said:

Reminds me of the style of artwork on the poster that came with the soundtrack in 1977. Wish I still had it. I’d frame it and put it in my office for sure. Better than any one-sheet.

https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

From the article
As some of you may be able to see, the ‘plot holes’ outlined in the Huffington Post‘s article are not plot holes at all. They’re simply things to which the reviewer willingly turned a blind eye due to the fact that he went in with a prepossessed notion of what he was going to write. His notion was so strong in fact, that he was able to completely overlook clear and obvious parts of the movie in order to back up the ‘facts’ of his dumb-shit, preconceived article.

I largely agree with this guy (not the ring theory part). I find there to be a great deal of pre-hate out there and intentional ignorance to support it. There was a fair amount of it a year before the film was released. ? Plenty of it around here since the release.

Having real issues with the film and disliking it are great. Have them, explain them, and join in the discussion. It’s why we’re here. As someone who has spent 35 years disliking all but one of the films (until now), I get it. Really, I do. I also fully support those criticisms being posted and discussed.

The walls of text that are nothing more than an attempt to yell down an opposing view - you can do better than that.

Delicieuxz said:
Here’s another point: TFA is openly for the fans.

Thank God. After 33 years of Lucas putting the fans second, or worse (intentionally battling them by doing the very things they were against), this has been a very long time coming.

Delicieuxz said:
I think it’s described very well as being a fanfic.

Again, after 33 years of Lucasfic, a welcome change.

Delicieuxz said:
I can’t accept TFA as a real entry in the SW saga because it devalues the events in the original trilogy, and renders all those trials, lessons, and victories as nullified, by the very people who achieved them.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/off-the-clock-space-opera-millennials-and-their-gr/1100-5371/

This article is an excellent explanation of why some fans may be struggling with Lucas’ fairy tale ending being erased. Real life doesn’t always end with dancing plush toys.

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

I can’t believe there isn’t a THX 1138 reference hidden somewhere in the movie.

I think I read there is but I can’t remember. Will have to look it up.

Electronic Labyrinth: THX-1138 4EB takes place in the year 2187. That’s a sort of cryptic reference.

Post Praetorian said:

TavorX said:

There’s something I find interesting about Rey. Due to the environment she grew up in, it just adds more to why she’s so great with the Force. When comparing to Luke’s beginnings, Luke has this impatient vibe and a little bratty. Now, hold your horses here, I actually find Luke relatable; being stuck with family and wanting to be somewhere away from home. So again, I have no issue with Luke here, just making this clear for what about I’m about to say.

Rey is basically a toughened up person by the time we meet her. She also exercises key Jedi traits, such as patience, something Luke struggled with for the first two films. Unlike Luke, Rey had no home to come to with someone that cared about her. She didn’t live on a farm where food tends to be plentiful. She instead spent so many years scavenging for a living in order to survive. She stayed on Jakku out of choice because she willingly wanted to wait for her parents to come back, even though day by day (and she literally counted those days as we see in the film), it was unlikely to ever happen.

This is why I’m not really all that disappointed that she had a more tuned relationship with the Force once she understood it IS real. She was able to calm her mind (something Yoda insisted Luke should do) when the time came and it was believable to me due to her upbringing. I’m not saying by any stretch that Luke had a rich and easy life, but in comparison, Luke was living in comfort on Tatooine vs the battle scarred graveyard planet of Jakku.

So essentially Rey was initially trained in the force at a young age…said training remained dormant…but her bare and meager existence upon a treacherous world allowed her implicit training in its usage during her intervening years awaiting the return of her family…?

It is a possibility…indeed a potentially plausible explanation…although I suspect it not to have been at all officially considered. Still, it bears pondering…

Excellent points and comparison, Tavor. I agree with all of it.

Considering the story was written by the same person responsible for showing the weaknesses of Luke in those same disciplines, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say they were intentional character strengths for Rey. I suspect they were.