Anchorhead

Vladius said:

I think what you’re getting at is that Han’s story is more of a classic romantic adventure, whereas Cassian’s story is deliberately less glamorous. Though when he becomes a spy and goes on spy adventures that will change.

It is more classic romanticism. As to all the things you pointed out about Han, none of that happened until Ben and Luke came into the picture. Prior to that, I don’t see anything in 1977 that suggests he lives anywhere near as dangerously as Cassian or with anywhere near the constant fear and desperation.

A nerd friend of mine sent me this a few days ago. These preview shows were a big deal when I was a kid because it was your only idea of what was coming the next season after the summer reruns. They did these for prime time lineups as well.

This TV Guide ad jumped out because it’s a reminder of how Star Wars was just a very popular movie in the theaters that summer. It wasn’t yet a franchise. Not even close. Just a movie.

Aside from Vader having actual eyes, which are wonky, he’s introduced in such a way as to inform the general populace of what movie the character is from.

Darth (“Star Wars”) Vader.

Vladius said:

Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

Han isn’t an unrealistic character either though.

No, he isn’t. Just less dangerous and with a lot less at stake. Though we never see his house, Han appears to live comfortably. He has his own ship and runs a sometimes questionable side hustle. Cassian on the other hand, has to borrow a ship if he wants to go off-planet, lives in near squalor, and makes a living stealing. Sometimes from a burgeoning Empire, and with the hopes of bringing them down. When he’s not sneaking into their facilities and spitting in their food.

MalaStrana#2 said:

I’m a bit confused by the way it’s being praised as “adult” meaning “it’s good”

I can’t speak for the others here, but that’s not what I meant or said. If you inferred that correlation, that’s on you.

Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

After watching just the first episode, This was feeling to me like the Star Wars sequel the way I’ve always hoped it would be. Hell, after the first fifteen minutes I was there. It’s Star Wars meets Blade Runner, meets 1970s dystopian sci-fi. Perfect. Now, after watching all three episodes, I’m feeling like this will be my go-to from now on.

This is so far beyond what they’ve done in the franchise in decades past. This is an adult show with real-world issues and some very interesting and very realistic characters. Very mild spoiler below;

In my life, I can think of a real world version of every one of these characters; The hard working blue collar, the jealous boyfriend, the aloof beautiful woman, the brown-noser, the tough talker in a bar - We’ve all known these types of people.

Diego Luna is amazing. He’s what a real-world Han Solo would have to be to survive in that lifestyle. Cassian isn’t a western movie caricature like Han. He’s much deeper. The whole show is much deeper.

To paraphrase a car commercial from 40 years ago; “This Is Not Your Father’s Star Wars.” 😉

If they go animated on EU novels, I’d still like to see them in the style of the amazing work on Spiderverse.
Deeper and not so cartoonish.

2012: I’d do the same that the OP is suggesting. There is a galaxy of EU out there and some very beloved characters. I’d start with Mara Jade and Thrawn stories. Those novels kept Star Wars alive during the dark years. Those were very popular characters and well written stories. I’ve read them a few times each.

We don’t ever need to visit the Skywalkers, Han, or Tatooine ever again. Enough with The Solar System Far Far Away. Also, I’d release the originals in their theatrical versions. Those are the films that made ALL of this possible. They deserve top notch treatment. As far as there being some sort of agreement that Disney honors Lucas’s thoughts; If I give someone 4 billion dollars - they no longer dictate terms. Take your money and go away.

2022: I’d drop all the films and focus on TV series, also drawn from the EU. Same novels, same reasons. For sure I’d keep the Visions series. That’s one of the jewels of Disney/Star Wars.

edit

All that said; I just started a full second viewing of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Shut up. 😉

Fan_edit_fan said:

Anchorhead said:

I’ve seen the 1979 original - several times in 79 in the theater and countless times in the decades since. I ubernerded it that year. Books, articles, etc. I still vividly remember my VHS of it just a few years later. I’ve listened to the soundtrack regularly since 79. Honestly, almost weekly, even now.
Because the original is a permanent Top Ten for me, there was never any chance I’d bother with a sequel. It’s a complete and finished story (for me).

You…seriously… have never watched The Empire Strikes Back this entire last 40 years???

No. I last watched it in the late 90s. Let me be a bit more clear on Empire. I don’t dislike it, I just don’t care about the story enough to watch it with any regularity. It’s fine as a film and as a sequel. It just doesn’t interest me because I didn’t care what happened after 1977. It answered questions I wasn’t asking.

Some standout moments to me; Any scene with Lando, the asteroid field, and Luke hanging under Cloud City. Those were all moments that I thought were very well done. Again, not enough to watch it, but if the OT is ever released in it’s theatrical version(s), I’ll buy and watch Star Wars for sure and maybe even The Empire Strikes Back.

I don’t know how to explain it any more clearly. Two things figure into it. 1. It’s been 40+ years since this was topical for me. Life is SO much more than a film.
2. Lucas contaminated things so badly that I’ve lost interest. I’m on this board fighting the good fight for nearly 20 years. Lucas won. He has successfully denied me - one of the teenagers who made him wealthy in the 70s - the ability to watch and escape in that very 1977 film.

I’m typically fairly neutral or nice(ish) about his mental illness, but at the same time my thoughts are about what a piece of shit he really is. Who the fuck goes to battle against the very people who gave them fame, fortune, and power?

I’ve seen the 1979 original - several times in 79 in the theater and countless times in the decades since. I ubernerded it that year. Books, articles, etc. I still vividly remember my VHS of it just a few years later. I’ve listened to the soundtrack regularly since 79. Honestly, almost weekly, even now.
Because the original is a permanent Top Ten for me, there was never any chance I’d bother with a sequel. It’s a complete and finished story (for me).

The entire franchise is make believe.
Lucas and/or Disney deciding what’s real vs otherwise is laughable. That levels ranking they came up with is even more so. If you like a series of novels, read them. That’s canon for you. If you don’t like something, ignore it.

Your imagination decides the story that moves you and the world you escape into when you read. Same goes for the films, games, or TV shows. When you were kids, did you stop playing with the toys or figures if someone said you weren’t imagining your own story correctly? Of course not.

Why in the world would you allow Lucas or Disney to do that now? Man, some of the takes that Lucas came up with and then claimed they were the real story were idiotic. Darth Vader as a little kid building 3PO? That is spit-take level ridiculous.

I really like the Zahn novels. So for me, Luke grows up, marries Mara Jade, and they have adventures fighting the good fight. That’s my Luke Skywalker. It sure as hell isn’t some old kook who tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder and then goes off to milk a giant sea creature for a snack. WTF?

There are hundreds of Star Wars novels and stories out there. Read and enjoy. They’re every bit as real as the rest of the GFFA.

I agree it looks like their most cinema-like yet. Looking forward to it. Only nitpick; I’m sorry to see the prequel tie-ins. Disney has really gone back to the prequels of late. I understand it with Obi-Wan and Bad Batch and don’t mind it because it makes sense. As I’ve said before, for me to watch those two series, which I like, it’s the price of admission.

This however, has a bit of a feel that they just won’t step away from The Saga (genuflect), no matter what story they’re telling. Oh well. Fingers crossed it’s as good as it looks. At the very least; I’m always happy to see Genevieve O’Reilly. I think she’s fantastic. Strong in Rogue One and I have no reason to think she won’t be the same here.

That’s it exactly. It’s really very easy. It also makes the stuff I like more emotionally peaceful when I’m watching it because I’m not trying to unsee or head-canon-fix stuff I don’t want.

I’ve done it for decades with films that are my very favorites. The sequels to Alien - never even considered seeing them. Jaws, also no way. Back To The Future, again no. Ghostbusters, still no way. For sure there are others I can’t recall at the moment. Those stories were perfect as told. I have zero interest in whatever came after.

Age of the person commenting would make this discussion a lot more honest. People in their 20s and 30s aren’t going to be able to speak to the question in an informed manner. Until you’ve passed through time, you won’t understand it. You just can’t. No amount of reading, studying, researching, interviews, etc is going to change that. Until 40 or 50 years have passed, you can’t even begin to comprehend what the good old days even are or how much your world will have changed.

To me, someone who has been around for many decades, nearly everything is better now. Cars, motorcycles, technology, healthcare/medicine/medical, communications, home entertainment, food safety, air quality, water quality, workplace environments & safety, and many others I’m probably forgetting.

The only thing better 40 years ago was the amount of time I had left in the journey.

As a huge fan of Rogue One, I have to say I think this is odd. It may be great and worth two seasons. I sure hope it is. It’s largely a cast of unknown characters and new planets and that bodes well, just as it did for the first season of The Mandalorian.

That said, I’m confused as to why this gets a green light for two seasons before anyone sees a single episode but Obi-Wan, a long known and loved character only got 1/4 of that.

To me, Obi-Wan felt and at times looked rushed. It could have gone a few more episodes. If Andor turns out to be another BOBF mess, 24 episodes could be troublesome.

Then again, I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had to eat crow on this board. 😉

VegetableMan said:

Anchorhead said:

Well then, guess that explains why he was trying to avoid him in the quarry. 😉

I have noticed you said you never watched the prequels and I wonder. Is it because you don’t want them to taint how you view the OT or are you just not interested?
I’m not blaming you or anything I’m just really curious.

Little of both I suppose, but mostly because I’m not interested. I saw Phantom when it was released, thought it was terrible, and have all but forgotten it. I remember a few scenes, but it’s not something I can recall other than how non-OT it looked and felt.

I haven’t seen the last sequel film either. Same reason. I’ve also only seen ROTJ twice that I’m sure of. Once in the theater and I wanted to walk out it was so stupid. I know I saw it again about 20 years ago when we did a lunchtime theater marathon of the OT where I worked. It’s possible there was a third time somewhere along the way, but I can’t be sure. That lunchtime theater was also the last time I saw Empire.

I don’t have a problem skipping what I don’t care for. I don’t battle the franchise the way some people do. They’re just movies. I watch what I like and skip the rest. It’s not difficult at all.

Well then, guess that explains why he was trying to avoid him in the quarry. 😉

henzINNIT said:
…and whether Obi-Wan walking away after defeating Vader makes sense. I don’t believe it does, but that is no doubt influenced by my reading of Ben’s intentions in the OT. If I was to buy in to the notion that killing Vader is just not a jedi thing to do

I’m not familiar with the prequels, so this may be a dumb question: does Obi Wan know how bad a person Vader has become by the time he sees him in this show? Maybe he doesn’t kill him because he’s unaware of just how horrible he really is. He probably doesn’t think of him as someone who is going to become so evil that he’ll be ok with helping Tarkin kill millions of people.

Servii said:

Different power settings? That’s definitely just headcanon. There’s nothing to imply that you can freely toggle how deadly a lightsaber is. And why would Vader have it on a nonlethal setting, anyway?

I agree. If someone likes this show, they should watch it. If someone doesn’t, they should watch something else.
Coming up with in-universe explanations that border on pretzel logic is silly. That’s as nice as I can put it.
Also nothing at all wrong with watching it and discussing the shortcomings. That’s part of being a fan.

Personally, it’s my time to eat some Crow. I stated several pages back and before it was broadcast that I could tell it wasn’t for me and most likely I wouldn’t watch it. At the behest of a good friend and fellow Star Wars fan, I gave it a look. I was incorrect with my earlier thoughts. To be sure, it’s very prequelesque in several parts, in look and in story. I’m not familiar with the prequels as films, but I have plenty of understanding of the structure and story.

I’m not crazy about that, but I know it’s the price of admission so I accept it. It’s that or skip the series, which after a few episodes I didn’t want to do. There are plot holes, there are less-than-theatrical CGI scenes, there are issues with the timeline as it relates to how much older Ben is when we met him in 1977, and there are characters who are disposable.

I don’t care. The show, several of the episodes, the acting & writing of the characters Ben, Leia, Tala, and Anakin, and Reva (eventually) were all enough for me to enjoy the show as a whole.

Worth noting (for myself personally); Star Wars - the original film in 1977 is influence-proof in my world. I NEVER watch it and feel any connection to the 40+ years of films\shows\novels\etc that came after.

For that reason, I don’t battle the franchise. I have long been a watch what you like, ignore what you don’t fan.
I don’t know what else I can say about the show or how I feel about it.

But I’m sure I’ll come up with something. 😉

Channel72 said:

I’ve had to continuously “readjust” my understanding of Star Wars since 1999.

Been at it myself since 1980. 😉

This is moving quickly, so I’m just perusing. I’ll deep dive later this evening. Hats off, by the way, at keeping things fairly civil.

Timeline question for the gap between the prequels and originals for the board.

I’ve watched the Clone Wars series and Bad Batch. I know both are prequel adjacent in their timelines, possibly same-as in some areas. Because I’m not familiar with the prequel films, is there any time frame that isn’t covered by any of the three? Specifically, the time (obviously) before Anakin becomes Vader.

Judging from nearly all the comments here and on review sites, people seem to really be happy with Hayden’s work in this series. Being among the few unwashed, I don’t have anything to compare it to but I will say he seems fine in the role and fits age-wise. I hope we get one or two more scenes similar to what we got Wednesday.

My thought is really more of a question; Is there an unexplored timespan where Ewan and Hayden could do a short series that takes place before this show? I would be interested in that. I know he becomes Vader in the prequels so it would be within the greater prequel time space, but maybe an adventure. Maybe something along the lines of Outbound Flight.

Vladius said:

I absolutely agree with you OP and it’s one of the things that makes me irritated to no end about the current state of Star Wars and its fans. It’s tied up in prequel apologism, people not understanding the Force or what balance in the Force means, the concept of “gray Jedi,” the concept of the “light side,” and people thinking the entire series is cyclical and predestined.

That’s part of the issue for sure. The other is this:

Stardust1138 said:

The prequel trilogy is based on a back-story outline Lucas created in the mid-1970s for the original three “Star Wars” movies…

It’s people believing he put anywhere near the thought into it back then that they continue to put into it 45 years later. He wrote A film. He didn’t write 3 films, 9 films, 12 films, or 6 films. Pick your interview because he gave plenty of them back in the 1980s, along with every answer he could come up with. If he had any thoughts on any other films back in the 1970s, he wouldn’t have hired two other people to write sequels.

Hot & cold on it, but overall not bad. As I’ve said plenty through the years with regard to the entire franchise, I don’t find Vader at all interesting. Not in 1977, not now. That said, he’s been well handled in this series. He looks strong and sounds strong (his voice was off in Rogue One, but that’s for other discussions). He seems very 1977 in this and that’s nice to see.

Also interesting, to me at least, is how much better Obi Wan and Anakin both work as characters at their current ages. I don’t really remember Phantom Menace, but I do remember how I felt about it. Something I thought back then was that Obi Wan would have worked better if we picked up the story when he was older. Same for the kid. I’ve seen a few clips and screencaps to have the same feeling about the other two prequels. Anakin and Obi Wan look too young (to me).

One of the things that most interested me way back when this series was first announced was how perfect Ewan looked now for the role. That has sure been the case now that the series is here. Same for Hayden. I’ve never seen him in anything before, so I’m going in fresh with this series and his portrayal of Anakin looks and feels correct for the character at this point in his journey.

Surprisingly, I thought having that training duel as an ongoing parallel throughout the episode was a very interesting way to show the parallels of who both men have always been through the years. When it first started, my thought was “oh, hell, a Prequel flashback. Not interesting, not interested.” It turned out to be, to me, the most interesting part of the episode. Well done for both characters and by both actors, as well as my first time seeing Hayden in anything. Consider me pleasantly surprised.

The rest of the episode was mostly filler, including the Reva twist. Handled well, Moses on top of her game, but too short and too late. That last 10 minutes felt rushed. It could have been an episode on its own and been a deeper narrative. Leia was hardly in this one, which I think was a good thing. We need a break to keep her from being over-used. This episode wasn’t about her, so it was good they didn’t shoehorn her in unnecessarily. Yes she was valuable to the story, but I doubt she had more than three or four minutes of screen time.

Minor nitpick; Way more civilians should have\would have been killed in that firefight.

yotsuya said:

Yeah, not exactly the same story at all. In ANH they rescue Leia because they happen to be there, and they botch it and Leia has to get them out of the mess. I really don’t see a lot of parallels other than Leia got rescued from an imperial facility.

That’s worth noting before we get too far in the weeds on finding comparisons and similarities that are completely unintentional. As Yotsuya points out, they weren’t going to rescue her at all. In fact, they weren’t even going to the Death Star. All of that was happenstance. Just as an unrelated, remote system, farm boy even being part of the story was happenstance (before Lucas had writer’s block a few years later).

That said, there are plenty of things to criticize about this series and I’ve done so myself. However, I don’t see any of that Ring or Rhyming bullshit that some factions swear exists. If anything, this series telling a new story is one of it’s strengths.

As to its conflicting with the 1977 film, I don’t care. As an original fan from 1977, I’ve never let anything conflict with that film. I either ignore attempted connectivity or skip films entirely. Star Wars is a movie from 1977. Obi Wan Kenobi is a TV show from 2022. I have no problem whatsoever separating the two. If anything, I’d struggle to connect the two.

Natalie Holt’s work on Loki is one of my all-time favorite soundtracks. Nothing I’ve heard on this show even comes close to the depth and atmosphere she brings to Loki. For the record, I don’t dislike the score for Obi Wan Kenobi, but it is more background than foreground. I can hear the criticisms. In fact, only one passage has stood out. Maybe it’s one Ms Holt wrote. It starts as they show Reva’s boots stepping off a ship onto the sea base in episode 3 (I think).

Here are some selections from Loki. Light years better than anything in Obi Wan Kenobi.

https://youtu.be/uFwUhMdINsA

https://youtu.be/PRMUUwtAmQQ

https://youtu.be/n_dGnkWfKF8

https://youtu.be/IAs5bVXA11w