Anchorhead

oojason said:

I found this take on Canto Bight scenes, with Rose’s effect on Finn and his journey in the film - going from Finn to being mainly concerned for his friend Rey, all the way to committing to the Rebel cause - to be of interest - and had some insight on events which I hadn’t considered during the first couple of viewings…

https://i.redd.it/lrjogkba1c701.jpg

(that’s not to say that message could have been made a little clearer and some of the scenes didn’t play too well)

I have to give it another watch. There are some things I totally missed. I don’t remember Phasma saying much of anything beyond “welcome back” (or something like that). I clearly missed Finn proudly proclaiming himself a Rebel. I think, for me at least, the film was very busy and lacked the narrative flow of the OT or RO. It became a bit of work to follow it. There seems to be more there than I caught initially.

Matt.F said:

I thought Rose’s introductory scene was excellent, the way the dynamics changed between her and Finn it was like a mini movie itself.

If you were going to run a little acting class and wanted a two person scene for your students to try as an exercise you could do a lot worse.

I agree. Rose’s introduction scene was, to me, one of the best scenes in the film. I found her to be much more interesting than Rey. Sacrilege maybe, but Rey is becoming a bit one-dimensional. Maybe that will change in the next film.

I also hope they give Rose a bigger and more substantial role in the story next time. They’ve established her as someone who steps up and gets involved when she sees something wrong, naïveté be damned. She’s a bit like 1977 Luke that way. The character has a lot to offer in a bigger & deeper role and I think Ms Tran is certainly up to the task.

DrDre said:
My problem is with the concept of a moderator giving advice on what people should focus on in their debates.

I gave my opinion. I didn’t advise you on anything. If I were a strict moderator, telling everyone what to discuss, we wouldn’t be at 157 pages after only two weeks. Feel free to rage against the machine all you want.

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Well said, mate.

Not well said. As long as debates are civil, any subject should be open for discussion. I don’t tell anyone else what they should or should not write about, and I expect the same courtesy.

Neither did I. In fact, I specifically said feel free to dissect and rant. My point was to occasionally give some thought to taking a break from trying to beat the franchise and the fans who may not agree with you.

Frank your Majesty said:
This rehash argument is just the Ring theory with a twist. Instead of using these constructed superficial “similarities” to show how great the prequels are, they are now a sign of how bad the new movies are. Why can’t angry fans come up with something new? Do they want to alienate other fans?

Why do angry fans have to come up with anything? Why don’t they just watch the movies they like and ignore what they don’t like? This is a 40 year old franchise spanning several generations. It consists of nine films, several TV shows, animated movies, hundreds of novels, children’s books, video games, comic books, newspaper series, theme parks, annual conventions, etc, etc.

There is absolutely no way the franchise can be one size fits all. I can’t make sense of fans battling a franchise they like and I really can’t fathom battling a different portion of the fan base. There isn’t a brolly girl waiting with a big cardboard check. No one is going to win Star Wars.

By all means feel free to vent, deconstruct, debate, rage, etc. I do it occasionally myself. It’s what makes this forum work. However, maybe give some serious thought to focusing on what you like. The stuff we don’t like about the franchise isn’t going away.

There can’t be too many more puns Riemannian.

This is where I got mine. https://highbridgeaudio.com/starwars.html.

Man, Gaffer, now I want to give it a listen again. 😉 I haven’t listened in about a year. I think C3PX put me onto those. At the time, I hadn’t heard them since their original airing. It was like I was hearing them for the first time. Still my favorite way to experience the original story. I ripped mine into iTunes several years ago so it’s on my work machine. Good way to start the year.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

This universe is also pointless to the previous one, since that one told a complete story.

Oh ok, then don’t ever watch ESB again, since ANH told a complete story.

Uhh…thank you. I’ve been preaching that for decades. Finally, someone gets it.
😉

Like a great many things, it depends. I didn’t like Return at all and would have stopped there, but that was the end anyway for nearly twenty years. More fitting to the question would be the prequels. I saw Phantom, it was stupid, so I bailed on the franchise. It would have been permanent but once Lucas was no longer part of it, I gave it another chance.

I most likely won’t bail again. I’ve given the sequel trilogy a try and haven’t been put off the franchise, regardless of how I felt about either of them. Ron Howard directing Solo is, to me at least, a good sign that it will be worth seeing.

The future Rian trilogy may be another matter entirely. We’ll have to wait and see what he has planned. If the first film, as trailers and leaks come out, seems more of the same (poorly placed humor and silliness), I’ll probably only give them a glance on cable.

For the record, I’m not married to franchises the way some people are. I watch what I like and ignore the rest. I’ll always have Star Wars77 and Rogue One. If they never make anything I like again, it doesn’t affect how I view the two I love. I don’t battle franchises.

My super hero collection is the same way: two Batman films, one Wonder Woman film. WB/DC could make ten more and it won’t affect the three I own and watch.

Collipso said:

I think that lots of criticism towards both movies upon release are the same, from what the link SilverWook provided tells and from what I can see of TLJ’s reaction.

However, some criticism towards TLJ isn’t about the moviemaking aspect. It’s about the literal core of the characters, with lots of people thinking Luke was ruined, or that Rey doesn’t obey the rules of the universe, etc etc.

And those complaints aren’t going away. They’re problems the audience has with the core of the movie, and I see it as different from the criticisms TESB received upon release.

Having lived through the release of Empire and not being a little kid at the time, I can say for sure that a lot of the criticisms were most certainly about the core and the characters themselves. In the interest of disclosure, I was very disappointed in how the characters of Vader and Han were handled.

Vader was morphed into something other than a second tier military officer and Han had become a good guy proper, not a scoundrel who did a nice thing. The final dagger was Vader as a family member. Lucas had altered both characters, to me, to the point where they were too different for me to care.

That is fantastic! I would love to see inside that world.

Collipso said:

It’s so weird to me that people see Luke vs. Guards as something other than a force choke.

Or that we’ve spent the last five pages debating it - 34 years after it was released.

SilverWook said:
Those lard-asses…

Damn, nearly did a spit-take laughing at that! 😃

Warbler said:
You don’t just become a Jedi without training.

She may be a nobody who has a strong feel of the Force. There isn’t any indication she has a desire to become a Jedi. She says specifically that she’s there to find out what her role is in the story she saw in her flashback.

Luke also makes a point of informing her that the Jedi don’t have some sort of special right to the Force. Hopefully she’s Rey Random on all levels. No familial connection, no faded robe hoodie Jedi. We’ve had 40 years of that.

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:
Since I’m new here, can you point out which rule I violated that deserved you to threaten me? I read through them…

That was the wrong answer.

Gaffer Tape said:
But while I had correctly guessed, I wasn’t committed to it. I wasn’t sure if I was right. Therefore, I was totally in the moment when all of those things happened, and I was genuinely scared when both of those attacks happened. And then when I realized I had been right, which is exactly when the movie wanted me to know I was right, it was very satisfying.

That’s EXACTLY how it was for me also. I suspected, wasn’t sure, then excited about what Luke had done.

Warbler said:

This:

was totally unnecessary and was only added to sell toys.

And - I suspect - one will be on my desk at work before long. 😃 I have no idea why those don’t bother me. Particularly since the Ewoks made me want to get up and walk out of the theater in 1983.

I found the Porgs to be interesting as well as a welcome diversion from Labyrinth ladies and sea monster nips.

Jeebus said:
I think it’s just because the trilogy wasn’t planned out. JJ thought that Rey’s parents should be important, Rian felt differently.

Sadly, I think that’s entirely possible. Lucas went that route in his six films and to varying degrees depending on who you ask, it weakened the franchise and most certainly fractured the fan base. Lack of planned story isn’t a good thing.

I’m one of the loudest proponents of her being Rey Random. It’s the very universe expansion I’ve wanted for decades. I hope they stick with it. The ship could be someone leaving after they’ve killed or taken her deadbeat parents. There are all sorts of ways that fleeting scene works with a Rey Random story. Fingers crossed JJ does it justice. He has an appreciation of the history of the franchise. I suspect he doesn’t want to trample on it.

It’s the Rian tell part of a story game aspect that’s disappointing. I don’t have a problem with Luke as an older and different man 40 years after we first met him. In fact, I expect it and welcome it. His less than friendly relationship with Rey is the best part of the film. That said, I found the shoulder toss of the light saber to be completely deflating after the weight we were left with in the last scene of TFA.

In the few times I’ve watched TFA this past year, after Rey meets Han, I skip ahead to that last scene. I thought it was done perfectly. I don’t anymore. For me, the emotional depth of that last TFA scene was ruined when it goes from serious to shoulder toss let’s go milk a sea monster in a matter of moments. WTF Rian?

Luke can certainly be dismissive of The Force. After 40 years of what he views as a misguided trust in it, that’s a totally valid and interesting story direction. I just don’t buy that he would flippantly toss aside something that was such a big part of his earlier life. He lost his only family and several friends in the first film, learned more\lost more in the second, then grew emotionally, saved millions of lives, and redeemed Vader in the third.

He could have respectfully handed it back to her and expressed why he dismissed her ideas and her quest. Rian instead went for shock value over depth and emotion. That was very disappointing for me.

DominicCobb said:

Anchorhead said:

Valheru_84 said:
It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well.

DominicCobb said:
Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

That’s not going to end well for either of you.

I’m not sure if I understand, are you saying if I report Val for attacking another member I’ll get in trouble?

My apologies. I read that incorrectly. Reporting the personal attacks is the proper avenue.

Valheru_84 said:
It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well.

DominicCobb said:
Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

That’s not going to end well for either of you.

ChainsawAsh said:

I had a tough time with Thirteen’s first words, too. She seems to be using a different (her native?) accent than I’m used to hearing from Whittaker.

Sounded like her native Northern accent to me. https://youtu.be/Ea1KEriNW7A
She’s from Yorkshire, which I think is still considered the North. Maybe we can get oojason to weigh-in. I’m glad she’s using her natural accent. I’ve watched several interviews with her this past year and it’s just one more thing I love about her. She seems quite genuine and grounded. If you’ll forgive my momentary shallowness, I also think she’s breathtaking.

Ryan said:
Why do you bring a newborn baby into the theater?..Get a babysitter.

Yeah, that would have worked better if Rian had first shown…wait, what scene are you discussing?

SilverWook said:

Wouldn’t it be a shocker if that was Luke’s clone on that island? I think Mark is sending us a secret message with this Jake Skywalker stuff. 😛

Oh man, what if it was Jaake?
😉

As you all know by now, I’ve been a very vocal proponent for a female Doctor for years. I also quit following the show when they weirdly and abruptly rewrote Clara and jettisoned The Impossible Girl. Capaldi was great in the few episodes I did watch the past three years. That said, in the end he was collateral damage for what I feel had become Moffat’s over indulgence in four-episode overly convoluted arcs where there is a universe-ending paradox.

Last night’s episode was no different except that in place of the universe-ending paradox, there was an unnecessarily long and pointless series of discussions about remembering who you are. All wrapped in some silly and non-threatening glass people commune. Still not sure why the first Doctor was there. All he did was say things to remind people that women and seniors aren’t openly discriminated against anymore. He added absolutely nothing to the story.

Having the soldier be who he was (no spoiler) was weirdly placed fan service, as was - of course - Clara’s return. Can’t have a Who episode without Clara. My long time favorite companion now fully rewritten into a character I can hardly stand.

Having the episode center around the 1914 Armistice could have been done so much better in the hands of a different writer. A huge opportunity missed. The last ten minutes were all I enjoyed. I thought the shot of the ring falling off was a nicely done call back to the nearly identical shot of 11’s bow tie falling to the ground. A firm indicator that the previous Doctor is over.

Regarding Jodie as 13: Love Love Love what little we got to see. I’m happy she seems to instantly have her wits about her and digs who she is. Her smile made me smile (literally). We’ve had a TARDIS out of control upon firey regeneration before, but this one had a more serious tone. Hats off to Jodie for the excellent intro. Loved her instant embrace of herself and the seriousness that followed a few seconds later. Even with only the one line, it was so wonderful to hear her voice as the Doctor. I’m beyond excited for her run to start.

Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.