Alderaan

joefavs said:

Just got back from my second viewing, and I actually think I liked it a lot more. The things that bothered me the first time bothered me less, and the overall rhythm felt a lot more natural now that I’m familiar with the entire thing. Bring on VIII, I’m fully on board.

Just saw it a 2nd time tonight too. I would say that it was easier to watch the 2nd time, not necessarily that I liked it more. For me, I knew to expect a movie with no plot and I wasn’t comparing it to the originals, so in that respect, it was more of a fun and relaxed viewing experience.

I will say though that I did notice even more flaws than I did at first glance. One is the cast is too young in this film. In the original, sure you had Luke and Leia in lead roles, but Harrison was in his 30s, most of the fighter pilots looked seasoned, you had Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing. But in TFA, the old people are either CGI or they die instantly. Everyone, and I mean every single one of the non-legacy characters looks like they are in their 20s. The film does suffer for it.

Another thing, did Poe say at the end of the film “my job is done?” Shouldn’t he be saying “our job is done”? I swear I heard him say “my” and what a terrible, terrible choice of words. Honestly can’t stand that dude’s character, just a paper cutout.

And who was saying Hux was well acted? I was even more convinced on 2nd viewing that he was one of the worst parts of the movie. This time I didn’t compare him to Tarkin, but I decided to compare him to Admiral Piett. This new guy was just a cartoon villain, whereas Piett had some nice depth despite his limited screen time. Hux and Phasma better have died off or I may not even see the next film.

Have to say though that Daisy and BB-8 stole the show. I don’t want to be too critical because the movie is not all bad. The plot is just a joke, but there are things I like, and Rey’s character was definitely the strongest in the entire film.

LexX said:

I thought he was the worst thing in the movie. Hopefully he died there.

Yeah I agree completely with this. I mean compare him to Tarkin/Peter Cushing. Terrible casting and terrible acting.

This is another small thing that annoyed me. In the trailer there is a shot of the X-wing flying behind a TIE-fighter and blasting it to pieces, and you can actually hear the laser blasts and impact damage. Was I mistaken that in the movie there was no sound? Was it just loud obnoxious score, or am I misremembering?

Yeah I thought he was terrible and I hated all of those scenes. The first part of the film I started liking was when we meet Rey.

Arguably worse though was the First Order general. That was by far the worst acted part in the whole movie. What an awful casting decision.

First:
Watch the original, original Star Wars (1977). You’ll want to watch some fan edit online, like Harmy’s De-Specialized edition or something that you can find via this website.

Second:
Watch the original, original Empire Strikes Back (1980). Again, you’ll want to watch one of the de-specialized fan edits online.

Third:
Watch the original, original Return of the Jedi (1983). As always, you’ll want to watch one of the de-specialized fan edits online.

Do yourself a favor and don’t ever watch the prequels period. They are terrible movies that will one day thankfully no longer be extant. The originals, on the other hand, may very well live on to be shown one day in a galaxy far, far away.

kt7000 said:

That’s the same way I felt it.
There was nothing special about the story, just a lot of visual eye candy to please the fans.

I’m thankful at least that it didn’t desecrate the originals. Probably nothing could be as bad as Yoda spinning around like a flying monkey, or some celibate monk talking about Midichlorians. If Disney wants to make money off popcorn flicks that everyone will forget about in 10 years, that’s fine with me. Just don’t pull a Lucas and take a dump all over the heart of the original story.

My biggest fear was they would turn Luke into a bad guy. As long as **** like that doesn’t happen, I will probably survive.

I don’t know, I never read Lucas’s original treatments. For as much criticism as I give post '97 Lucas, and he deserves it, I will say that it felt like TFA didn’t have a clear vision. Looked like a movie that was made by 10 different people all with their own ideas, then mashed together under the guise of an homage to the originals.

hydrospanner said:

joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

They made her character seem too gruff to me. I guess they were going for sort of an old battle hardened General feel… but it just came across as being kind of bland.

She had a character at all in TFA?

Seemed like she was told to just stand there and hug and smile at people. Honestly pointless appearance in the film.

joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

Yeah I agree with you. I didn’t have any problem with Carrie. But I think the writing and directing didn’t do her any favors. Felt like she was just shoehorned into the movie and not given anything to work with, to be honest.

Sorry if the language in my post was a little hard. I wrote that up elsewhere and did a copy/paste and figured the censors would automatically get everything. Feel free to let me know if it was too offensive for this board, didn’t mean for it to be.

Saw it tonight. Here’s my in depth review:

Characters:

Daisy was great. Easy on the eyes, decent acting. Liked her character a lot, but I think the development of her force powers could have been paced better. That part seemed backloaded.

Finn was just ok. Thought he had good moments but he was erratic in others. Started out scared and contrite, then he was selfish, then he was altruistic, then he was daring and reckless, then he was providing comic relief. Just all over the map and felt like he was the creation of 10 different writers, which he may very well have been.

Han was terrific. He had most of the best dialogue in the film. The scenes late in the movie with Leia were a struggle though, and Chewbacca was shockingly underused to the point it was painful for him to even be included at all. They could have cut him and replaced him with some random X-wing pilot and it wouldn’t have made any difference, that’s how poorly his role was handled.

The bad guys … I thought Kylo was fine. Surprisingly liked him more than I thought I would. Captain Phasma was a joke. Snoke looked like he belonged in the Lord of the Rings, I mean he was nearly the only thing in TFA that was prequel-level bad. The First Order general was also terribly acted and whoever made that casting decision should have been fired on the spot. Some guy who looks like he’s 25 is the most senior military official in a galactic empire? Really? That dude has to be some producer’s nephew or boyfriend, can’t be any other explanation.

Pacing:

This was my biggest complaint with the film, even more than the re-hash stuff. When I got out of the theater I made the remark that it felt like I just got off a jerky wooden rollercoaster. There was just too much stuff going on in the film in too little time. Just didn’t slow down in the right spots when the film could have used a breather. Not enough poignant or reflective moments. Dialogue often seemed rushed and was sometimes hard to follow.

Score:

Terrible. Honestly can’t believe it, John Williams wtf? Can’t remember anything memorable except the original force theme and the original Leia’s theme. All of the new music was not only completely forgettable, but worse, it was often loud and intrusive.

Other complaints:

I constantly found myself hating the blocking and framing in this movie. The camerawork was terrible, and there was one scene I remember in particular where the camera was spinning around for seemingly no reason at all. Just nauseating work from Abrams. Editing was mostly terrible too.

Things I liked:

Some of the action/flight scenes like when the Falcon was being pursued on Jakku. Some of the Tie-Fighter vs. X-wing shots late in the movie. The updated hyperspace graphics were great. Pretty much any of the slower, character establishing scenes with Rey. Film should have focused more on her, in my opinion.

Breaking down the plot:

I thought the first scenes were terrible and then the movie strengthened some after that. The old man with the McGuffin seemed so poorly thought out and was poorly acted. The pat shot of Kylo turning and staring down some random stormtrooper (who happened to be Finn) was lame. Can you ever picture Vader stopping in his tracks to give a random stormtrooper 2 ****s of time? Really? Should have just cut all these dumb ****ing scenes out of the movie, they were basically pointless. Finn and Phasma **** was all pointless. Everything in the first ten minutes or whatever was terrible.

Thankfully after all that bull**** was done, we meet Rey and the story really settled down and got quite good for awhile. Honestly I think they should have just started the movie with her and made it mostly about her, she was by far the strongest character in the entire cast. Film was great for the rest of Act I on Jakku, and the escape on the Falcon at first act climax was really well done. That whole sequence was one of the highlights, if not THE highlight, of the entire film.

After that, Rey and Finn get picked up by Han and Chewie in some freighter. What are they doing on this junk freighter and what are the odds they happen to come across the Falcon soon after it takes off for the first time in years and years? This part of the plot was really poorly handled; all of the dialogue with the two smuggling groups was bad; then there were cartoonish CGI monsters. More prequel ****. **** off. About the only good thing in this part of the movie was Han Solo being Han Solo. “Move, ball” got me to laugh out loud.

Anyway, what happened next? Oh yeah, the gang goes to Maz’s place. Most of the CGI characters in this movie looked terrible (like Snoke and the junk dealer on Jakku). If any of them were well done, it was Maz but honestly I’m not even sure on that one. She was also, apparently, dumb as rocks, considering she was supposed to be some kind of sage.

So after that, Kylo comes and blows everything up and kidnaps Rey. I liked the scenes between the two of them on the ship, but found myself doubting the casting decision of Kylo. Just didn’t look very villainish when he was unmasked. Gave off the whiny prequel Anakin vibe that everyone hates. Keep the mask on dude, it’s much more intimidating.

Speaking of Kylo, did anyone else buy him being Han and Leia’s son? Just didn’t seem to work at all for me. Should have been Luke’s son, in my opinion.

Finally we get back to Rey and she starts to learn the force. Loved this part of the movie, but again I thought it was too backloaded. Needed better pacing, foreshadow her growing force sensitivity earlier in the film. Don’t give it all to us in the last 30 minutes ffs.

So yeah after that the third act consisted of parts that either sucked completely, or were on the verge of being well done and then got ed up. Everything with Rey on the ship was great. The Rebels’ plans for attack were not believable. Han flying at light speed and being able to manually stop his ship in time in a planet’s atmosphere and then pull up in just enough time to crash land and stop on the edge of a cliff? Really? Isn’t that the kind of lame bull they put in Pirates of the Caribbean or Indy 4? How the **** does a Galactic Empire’s secret weapon get infiltrated by one ****ing ship? And a crew of 3 is able to blow up a ****ing military installation with millions of bad guys on it? I mean all of this **** was ****ing dumb as hell.

The last interesting part of the main action was the lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey. I kept wondering why in the hell is Kylo not wasting this chick with little effort? And then it happened. He told her he wanted to train her. Finally an old school added dimension to a lightsaber battle, cool as hell right? Rey fights him off, and this scene really worked for me. And then Abrams ****ed it up. As soon as Rey fights off Kylo for an instant, the fissure in the ground should have separated them immediately. It ruined the whole ****ing scene for her to suddenly start beating this dude’s ass and nearly kill him even though she’s never used a lightsaber before. Damn that was brutal.

Anyway the final shot with Rey and Luke was pretty good. I still don’t like the idea of people looking for Luke and being able to find him off some damn map. He’s Luke ****ing Skywalker, he’ll come around and find you when he’s damn well and ready. And Leia’s cameo felt forced and unnecessary. And nobody says “The Alliance” or “Rebels” the entire film. They get called the “Resistance” every time, and that’s a nitty thing that probably only tilted me.

Final Thoughts:

Plot was poorly thought out and not focused enough on Rey. Should have made Kylo be Luke’s son. I don’t know, probably a lot of other **** most of you don’t care about.

I’d give TFA a 6/10 rating. Probably would rate the series as follows:

The Empire Strikes Back: 10/10
Star Wars: 8 or 9 / 10
Return of the Jedi: 8 or 9 / 10
****ty prequel #1: 2 or 3/ 10
****ty prequel #2: 1 / 10
****ty prequel #3: 1 / 10

The Force Awakens: 6 / 10

Just OK. Better than the prequels, not as good as the originals. Probably good enough to make most people happy as long as you don’t expect a masterpiece.

double post? delete

Luke had a computer on board his X-wing that interpreted R2. You can see him looking at it when he’s talking to R2 on the flight to Dagobah. As for other times he speaks to R2, you can imagine he’s verbalizing non-verbal communication. There are probably intonations in the tone of R2’s beeps that can kind of intimate what the droid might be trying to convey. The same way you might talk to your cat or dog but neither really knows what the other is trying to say.

Ronster said:

SilverWook said:

I’m sure the bickering will start minutes after Han and Leia are reunited. 😉

I really hope so!

I have not heard anyone else bring this up, but it may have been said already.

I mean as you said Silverwook I want some proper flaming arguments going down here… But there is a chance that they may not still be together in this movie in fact I am banking on it or almost hoping for it as no longer being a couple… but What if by the end of this new trilogy Han and Leia end up together again.

would’nt that be something?

I don’t know what happens in TFA, but that would have been a great idea. Write them as though they haven’t seen each other in years, then get reunited late in life. The older we get the more we can share that sentiment, the longing to meet people again we once knew in years gone by.

Sevb32 said:

I know, I just feel bad for some of you, I guess it’s my fault for bothering to read this forum, but it seems to suck the life out of everything, that so many will seem to hate or gripe no matter what is done to try to appease them.

I know this is from 20 pages ago, but I just wanted to point out that NOTHING has been done to appease OOT fans. NOTHING. People on this forum wouldn’t be so critical and in such a bad mood about all things Star Wars if the original films hadn’t been disgraced and buried away like they have been since the SE and PT.

Gaffer Tape said:

I’ve said before that, from a purely filmmaking standpoint, this addition is probably the worst in the entire Special Edition.  Yes, there are things that are dumber and more agonizing from a fan standpoint, but, aside from the addition of the Jabba scene, there is no other part of the SE that RUINS THE PACING as much as this.  The Falcon is rushing back to save Luke, the music is pumping, the TIEs are closing in… AND THE FILM JUST FUCKING STOPS SO WE CAN WATCH VADER ARRIVE ON HIS SHIP?!  Whose crack-addled brain came up with that one?!

Great post Gaffer. Couldn’t have said it any better.

DrDre said:

It struck me recently that, ever since the Special Editions, Star Wars movies have really been struggling with their tone. In fact George Lucas seems to have become tone deaf.

In the original 1977 Star Wars we realise Tatooine is a dangerous place, when Luke get’s attacked by Sand People. Soon after this his aunt and uncle are brutally murdered. Luke decides to join Obi-Wan on his quest and the adventure is on it’s way. Obi-Wan introduces Mos Eisley as a hive of scum and villainy. We meet assassins, smugglers, and just generally dangerous people and aliens. Han Solo is introduced as a shady character. <span style=“line-height: 14.3999996185303px;”>There is a sense of danger when we enter Mos Eisley.</span><span style=“line-height: 14.3999996185303px;”> </span>

<span style=“line-height: 14.3999996185303px;”>George Lucas has said while introducing the Special Editions he always wanted Mos Eisley to be this bustling town. He also introduced tonal inconsistency. We now have slapstick humor when we enter Mos Eisley (just after we’ve seen Luke’s aunt’s and uncle’s burning corpses). We have a “funny” beebing droid when when our heroes are interrogated by the stormtroopers. </span>

The same thing happens in Jabba’s palace in ROTJ. In the 1983 version Jabba’s palace is a dangerous place, where people are fed to monsters. From 1997 on this tension is undercut by a “funny” musical interlude with cartoon characters.

<span style=“line-height: 14.3999996185303px;”>Some would argue that the changes are only small and cosmetic in nature, and that it is essentially the same movie with some digital effects added in the mix. I disagree. </span>I would argue that George Lucas deliberately tried to make the tone of the original films more kiddie friendly. The most obvious example being the “Han shot first” scene. In the end he only succeeded in making the film’s tone inconsistent, and it ultimately becomes a less great film, a watered down version of Star Wars, with less sharp edges.

What do you think?

Excellent post. I have shared those same thoughts for years. Especially the examples you cited.

I think the prequels (and the SE changes you mentioned) showed us that George Lucas doesn’t understand tone and had little to nothing to do, creatively, with some of the more polished and refined aspects of the original films. I think the prequels and the SE versions are EXACTLY what George Lucas would have created if he could have done it all himself in the 1970s and early 1980s, and obviously Star Wars would never have become what it is today. There likely never would have been a second movie.

It was only with the collaborative help of other people that George Lucas’s otherwise childish, banal idea for an episodic film serial was turned into something not only watchable, but wholly beloved by so many people.

emanswfan said:

First non-spoiler review:

Here’s my non-spoiler review/impressions on the movie. NOSTALGIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Oh boy, how to review a film without talking anything about the story.

My whole plan to see the film was try to avoid any footage of it besides the teasers. This is very difficult especially in my field. I did see the first two teasers as planned, but haven’t seen any of the latest marketing besides a brief bit of a TV Spot, and of course that meme all over my feed, thanks facebook friends. Anyways, based on this, I had no idea what to expect.

Yes, the film is excellent. Hell, its fucking awesome. Its nice to see a decent Star Wars film after the prequels (I know it gets tiring, but there’ll be comparisons here).

Effects: JJ has been heavily emphasizing practical models and effects and there’s actually a lot of it, or the CGI is just so good on certain things. Either way it worked. Obviously there’s CGI, and having seen Revenge of the Sith recently obviously TFA’s CGI beats it. It doesn’t feel like its all over the place, like Lucas prequel films, sorry if it sounds a bit off topic here. The sound design itself is awesome. I mean people will focus on the obviously amazing soundtrack by John Williams, but I very much enjoyed the sounds of the various things in the movie (Spaceships, characters, world, etc). No complaints for the effects honestly.

Cinematography did the job when needed in my opinion. It doesn’t really stand out but there are a few stunning landscape shots. I would be more specific on what scenes, but no spoilers.

Did it feel like a Star Wars movie? There were a few people mentioning to me they were worried about it just being a sci fi movie with Star Wars elements. Its definitely a Star Wars movie, and a great one at that. If the Williams theme doesn’t convince you, then the characters will and the feel of the world. Lots of fan service, but done very well. I’m not exactly a hardcore fan here, but even a casual person might get a few of the references heh. If you feel worried the marketing has spoiled a bit, you’re in for a show. I think their restrained marketing strategy will really please fans. I’d be honestly okay if JJ did the rest of the series, but it’ll be interesting to see how the other directors handle it.

Characters characters characters. How were the new leads like Ridley and Boyega? They were both good, though I think Boyega was better. Had some great scenes. I’m going to avoid talking about the old cast besides saying Ford may have aged, but he’s still Han Solo. I would talk more in this section, but I might be walking into spoiler territory. No complaints about the characters here in general.

Its also nice to have a decent script where the characters aren’t worried about stupid sand or cringe worthy romance bits.

Crowd was perfect btw, they cheered at the right moments. I think they enjoyed it, but I didn’t exactly survey everyone. Though Disney types did hand out some surveys. What does this mean for box office? Seeing the film doesn’t automatically make me the best box office predictor but I can say with confidence that it’ll explode. Anyways.

Its definitely a Star Wars movie.

STAR WARS IS BACK.

If I had to rate it, this is tough because I really love a New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. I think in some ways its stronger then ANH, but that movie was so damn revolutionary that its hard to top for me.

ESB
ANH
TFA
ROTJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

Final rating: A

Take this as you wish as this is just one person’s opinion.

Source: http://forums.boxofficetheory.com/topic/6655-star-wars-the-force-awakens-dec-18-2015-no-spoilers-even-fake-ones-boxofficez-non-spoiler-review-pg-2254-review-actually-on-pg-2251-yw/?page=2251#comment-2292038

This sounds nice, but it’s hard to take this seriously when the reviewer didn’t mention anything they thought could have been done better. When there’s really no counterpoint, the review just comes off looking like propaganda or that it was written by a fanboy.

Ryan McAvoy said:

Alderaan said:

The real angst will be to watch a contained story devolve into serial of the week

What like Flash Gordon?

Yeah. You know, like everything George Lucas wanted Star Wars to be in the 70s. Only thank god constraints like time, money, and other people's better ideas got in the way.

You saw what George Lucas's unfettered version of Star Wars was. You did watch the prequels right?

I don't think you have to worry about it being awful like the prequels; however, it's very likely that it will be a forgettable movie. The real angst will be to watch a contained story devolve into "what cool characters and plot can we think up next?" serial of the week. The difference is the same as that between a symphony and a pop concert.

timdiggerm said:

 - There's a girl who thinks she's no one, but clearly dreams of getting off her backwater world... and then does and has adventures

- There's a disillusioned stormtrooper who, in seeking something to believe in, ends up with familiar heroes and a lightsaber, having adventures

- There's a bad guy who wants to carry on the legacy of Darth Vader

- Han is a very different man from the cynical, skeptical smuggler hired by an old man and a farmboy years ago

Sure sounds like two protagonists, a villain, and familiar supporting cast!

I think you guys are piecing together different parts of the puzzle (including leaked spoilers) rather than just taking a single trailer at face value.

timdiggerm said:

Alderaan said:

I'm warning you guys, don't get your expectations up. The trailer is a window into the filmmaker's mind and what kind of story they are hoping to tell. All indications are that the story in this film will be poorly fleshed out. The characters will be kind of just there. The movie will be a sleekly produced but vapid Revenge of the Sith meets The Godfather Part 3 meets standard Hollywood blockbuster fare.

What kind of character fleshing-out can you expect from a trailer for a film with a big cast?

Who is the main character? Are they a Jedi? A wizard? A Paladin? What thing has caused them distress in their normal ordinary life such that they will be forced to journey into the world of the story?

The only thing this trailer does is put vague Star Wars like stuff on screen and tell you to come watch it because it's Star Wars.

timdiggerm said:

This is funny, given that people who read The Martian before seeing the trailer thought it was a horribly spoiler-filled trailer that would ruin the film for any newcomers to the story.

Well, I don't care what people who have read the source material think.

Trailers are made for people who would otherwise have no idea what they are about to see.

I'm warning you guys, don't get your expectations up. The trailer is a window into the filmmaker's mind and what kind of story they are hoping to tell. All indications are that the story in this film will be poorly fleshed out. The characters will be kind of just there. The movie will be a sleekly produced but vapid Revenge of the Sith meets The Godfather Part 3 meets standard Hollywood blockbuster fare.