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ATMachine

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Post
#1340303
Topic
<strong>Star Wars (1977)</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Continuing a discussion ZkinAndBonez and I were having in another thread: apparently Ralph McQuarrie did some concept art of NSFW Leia outfits for the prison escape in the original Star Wars. See here, here, here, and also here.

In the first image, Leia’s clothing is just a loincloth, and she’s naked from the waist up. The same thing is true in the second image: the loincloth is pencilled in more lightly this time, but Leia is covering her exposed breasts with her right arm. And in the third picture (a detail from the frontispiece in The Making of ESB, though it was actually done for SW 1977), her top has partially slid off during the Imperial torture droid’s interrogation, exposing her left breast.

The fourth image is more debatable, but I think it shows Leia wearing a nipple chain under her tunic, likely inspired by a line Katharine Hepburn has about wanting to wear one in The Lion in Winter.

Contrast this image, where Leia is wearing a much more demure outfit, apparently consisting of a pair of pants and a midriff-baring tank top. So McQuarrie did indeed draw costume concepts in some of these storyboards.

Is there textual support for this sort of nudity in SW? I think so.

The 1974 SW rough draft includes a scene where Annikin Starkiller and Princess Leia are separated when they land on the jungle moon of Yavin. When Annikin catches up to her, Leia is the prisoner of nine “Ureallian trappers”, and is “half-naked” and unconscious. It’s implied they’ve sexually assaulted her.

JW Rinzler apparently thought so, but preferred not to spell it out explicitly: in one blog post on the official SW site he wrote “In the original 1974 rough draft… the “trackers” are nasty aliens who live on an Ewok-free planet known as Yavin. I don’t want to say what havoc they cause, but it isn’t pretty.”

The 1975 third draft similarly has Leia suffer a hands-on interrogation from Vader and two Imperial officers, which may be based on a scene in the THX 1138 novelization where LUH 1417 is assaulted by three guards during her imprisonment. If something similar happened to Leia, it would give Lucas a good reason to tell Ralph McQuarrie to draw her bare-breasted.

Post
#1340289
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>making-ofs, documentaries, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

I’ll concede you might be right about the fourth image (though I personally doubt it).

But in the first image, Leia’s clothing is already drawn in - it’s just a loincloth, and she’s naked from the waist up. The same thing is true in the second image, where she’s covering her exposed breasts with her right arm. And in the third picture, her top has partially slid off during the Imperial torture droid’s interrogation, exposing her left breast.

What we have here are definitely some sketches for NSFW Leia costumes by Ralph McQuarrie.

Post
#1340264
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>making-ofs, documentaries, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

It is definitely a thing (see here , here, and here - the third is a detail from a drawing used as the frontispiece in The Making of ESB, though it was actually done for SW). At one point McQuarrie even sketched a nipple chain under Leia’s tunic, likely inspired by a line Katharine Hepburn has about wanting to wear one in The Lion in Winter.

Post
#1340109
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>making-ofs, documentaries, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

I wonder how the same sort of people that said Star Wars was overly simplistic in its good/evil duality (a charge particularly relevant in the murky moral climate of 1970s cinema) could also say the film had “no moral, no message”. Is it a film with too simple and didactic a worldview, or is it not simple & didactic enough?

Post
#1339833
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

But Luke wasn’t planning to appear before the Emperor - Vader took Luke to Palpatine when he initially refused to turn back to the light side as Luke asked him to. Luke wanted to surrender to the Imperials to avoid having Vader sense what the Rebels were doing through him, and to have a face-to-face talk with his father. If he failed at turning his father, he might be killed, but his friends would no longer be in danger from his Force link to Vader.

And besides, why would Luke think it was his job to kill the Emperor anyway? The Rebel fleet destroying the Death Star was supposed to be responsible for that.

Post
#1339518
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Broom Kid said:

“Fan Forums” are one of the worst possible ways to “know” anyone, or build any sort of accurate picture of a person. Conversations about Star Wars aren’t a great basis for determining what a person’s character is like, and there’s not a lot of upside to looking at those conversations in that light, anyway. It doesn’t really make the conversation any better, usually doesn’t increase any understanding of the movies, and mostly just leads you to put way too much weight on something (disposable conversations with strangers about space movies) that just isn’t built to carry that much weight.

I don’t know that I agree that ‘toxic’ needs to stop being used as a descriptor, if only because it CAN apply very well… the problem is that a huge part of WHY it applies is because people DO approach disposable conversations with strangers about space movies with such misplaced energy and importance that it ends up warping perspective, to the point where real toxicity can occur. But usually it’s a pretty long walk between “jeez, that guy is annoying” to “jeez, that guy is TOXIC.”

But even then, that doesn’t mean anyone here can paint a really accurate picture of anyone else’s personality based solely on the very small, focused, and mostly inconsequential (and anonymous) glimpses being given through “Star Wars” talks. Most everyone here has a whole LIFE outside of liking Star Wars that is bigger, and way more important than this, and we’ll never really know about it beyond the surface. Toxicity can be a temporary condition, too, and if you find yourself getting upset at other people’s opinions on Star Wars, in my experience, that just means its time to stop and reflect on what you’re putting into this, and what you’re getting out of it, and whether there’s an imbalance that needs to be tended to on YOUR end.

Apologies for being off topic. Just wanted to speak a little from my perspective, having seen (and been in) so many of these sorts of scuffles and fights over the years.

To sum up: Ewoks are awesome, Yub Nub is the best, “Return of the Jedi” is referencing Luke, celebrate the love, keep balance in the Force.

Well said. 😃

Post
#1339310
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

It’s also worth asking exactly how much chance Luke has of killing the Emperor in a straight-up fight. Vader’s betrayal clearly took Palpatine by surprise. But if Luke just raised his lightsaber and tried to cut him down, I’m sure he had some Force lightning up his sleeve even if Vader was out of the picture.

Post
#1338933
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

It sounds like the storyline where “Han dies, Leia becomes queen, Luke wanders off” was Kurtz trying to find an ending to ROTJ that wrapped up the series, but matched the darker tone of Lucas’ previous ideas from the ESB era for the third SW film (when it was supposed to feed into the ST).

Not to mention it would also allow an opportunity to return to the Sequel Trilogy at some point. Luke would basically be the same lone wanderer as in the earlier Sequel Trilogy conception, and Han and Leia would both be out of the picture, which also fits the earlier plan.

But it seems Lucas wanted to tie up what was then supposed to be the final film with a definitely happy ending. Particularly one that resolved the Han/Luke/Leia love triangle in a less dour way. Han sacrificing his life for the Rebellion was all well and good as a story idea back when Leia could end up with Luke instead, but ESB basically killed that idea (no doubt drawing on Carrie Fisher & Harrison Ford’s real-life intimacy). So Lucas kept him alive.

Post
#1338812
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Back in the days of writing the original SW, there was a point where Lucas depicted the rise of the Empire as a more gradual decline and fall of the Republic, rather than a power grab by a single dictatorial Emperor figure.

This was the idea in the January 1975 second draft, and it evidently persisted for a while - hence in 1976 Lucas had to tell Alan Dean Foster to take out references to it in the novelization. One slipped through, though: a mention of “the later corrupt Emperors”.

In the same conversation Lucas apparently mentions wanting Leia to become Empress at the end of the trilogy, and says he would have to discard or modify this idea if he kept to the storyline of a single evil Emperor figure instead of a more gradual transition.

So Kurtz’s idea here of Leia becoming a “Queen” does seem to derive from early SW concepts. (Including also the 1974 rough draft, where Leia becomes queen of her planet at the end, in a finale sequence much like the Triumph of the Will-style ending to SW 1977.)

A marker of how much the story had shifted to revolve primarily around Luke by the time of ROTJ is that in the story conferences there Larry Kasdan suggested having Luke, not Leia, become the new Emperor. (Lucas’ apparent idea during ESB of having both Han & Leia die in the third film, to clear the way for a Sequel Trilogy featuring Luke’s sister, likely boosted this marginalization.)

Post
#1338743
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

I think killing off both Han & Leia was part of George’s plan for ROTJ back during the ESB days, when he was still thinking about continuing with a Sequel Trilogy set immediately afterward.

And I’ve said before, the “Han dies, Leia becomes queen, Luke wanders off” idea is basically the ending of Mad Max Fury Road, in regards to the Nux/Furiosa/Max character arcs.

Post
#1338590
Topic
The Original Trilogy <strong>Trailers/Promos</strong> Video Thread (YouTube/Vimeo, etc. finds)
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

ATMachine said:

This Twitter trailer for the May 4, 2020 Star Wars marathon on Disney+ features the film titles scrolling backwards in a crawl, much like how the title of SW 1977 was at the top of the crawl in the storyboards & early test footage.

And then afterward the text turns from yellow to white. Again much like early test footage of the SW 1977 crawl, which had white text.

Backwards? I’m assuming you meant the warping of the text (or “angle”, not quite sure how to describe it) being similar to the test footage?

I just meant it was receding into the background at an angle, the way the text crawl does. Nothing to do with the particular degree of inclination. (Though I really should look at the test footage again.)

Post
#1338447
Topic
The Original Trilogy <strong>Trailers/Promos</strong> Video Thread (YouTube/Vimeo, etc. finds)
Time

This Twitter trailer for the May 4, 2020 Star Wars marathon on Disney+ features the film titles scrolling backwards in a crawl, much like how the title of SW 1977 was at the top of the crawl in the storyboards & early test footage.

And then afterward the text turns from yellow to white. Again much like early test footage of the SW 1977 crawl, which had white text.

Post
#1338382
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

red5-626 said:

ray_afraid said:

On From Star Wars to Jedi you can hear the original English vocals.
It’s a workout song, for sure. I’ve always wondered why. AFAICT, the song was written for the movie, so… ?
Actually, after thinking about it today, weird exercise songs were kinda popular around this time…
Still makes no sense for the setting, but.

Like I said Jabba has gotan so fat he can’t get off his “Hoversled”
So he is trying to lose weight. But he keeps eating frogs so it never works.

Back when Jabba was Leto II Atreides, they called it “the Royal Cart”.

Post
#1337578
Topic
<strong>Star Wars (1977)</strong> - a general <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

I had a weird dream where I was talking to Gary Kurtz. He told me that he’d always wanted George to fix the blue door on the escape pod, but George said “it’s good enough” and decided not to fix it. He said that back in the day George didn’t want to spend the time or money to make things like that as good as they could be, but now that SW is a massive success he’s going back and fixing those things.

Post
#1336912
Topic
Changes to the Disney+ 2019 SE of the Original Trilogy
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

ATMachine said:

Disney’s always been this hypocritical and ridiculously puritan. It’s just easier to notice nowadays.

I dunno. The harpy tits in Fantasia paint a somewhat different picture.

Maybe so, but if we have to reach back before the Manhattan Project for such examples, is it still relevant, or just a historical footnote reflecting a worldview that hasn’t survived in Disney as it’s existed for the last 70 years?