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ATMachine

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12-May-2012
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7-Feb-2022
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Post
#979704
Topic
For those doubting that GL had the whole saga planned out in detail while making IV
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Ok, so there are identical twins and fraternal twins, why can’t there be…uh…some term for twins born two years apart?

Or maybe they’re half-siblings. Vintage 1977-canon taste with the same incest flavor!

Seriously though, GL first decided that Leia would hook up with Han rather than Luke in late '77 – the very same time that he began thinking Luke’s sister should appear as a new character in a future SW film.

And virtually all of Ralph McQuarrie’s concept art from the first film shows Luke and Leia with identical blond bowl haircuts. Join the dots.

Post
#979410
Topic
For those doubting that GL had the whole saga planned out in detail while making IV
Time

Simply put, you’re wrong. The SW 1977 shooting script (the revised fourth draft from March 1976) DOES say that Luke is 20 and Leia is about 16.

This is not to be confused with the “public version” of the shooting script, which came out in the wake of the movie’s release. This was altered after the fact to be a mirror image the actual film - a practice Lucasfilm would continue with future movies.

And even that gives Luke and Leia different ages: Luke’s age is now 18, but Leia is still “about sixteen years old.”

Post
#978076
Topic
For those doubting that GL had the whole saga planned out in detail while making IV
Time

Actually, Luke and Leia were respectively 20 and 16 in the shooting script for the 1977 film. So they weren’t the same age, and thus not twins.

However, nobody said anything about them not being related – in fact, the instances of brother/sister incest in both Wagner’s Die Walkure and the Arthurian mythos involve half-siblings born at different times. But that might be a little more than you wanted to know.

Post
#977247
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Good point! Though Rommel committed suicide on Hitler’s orders (to spare his family) after meeting with the conspirators of the July Plot.

Whereas Jerjerrod gets killed by the Rebels when the Death Star blows up. And though he’s clearly appalled by the order to blow up Endor, he nonetheless obeys it, since he’s still working under the the Nazi mentality that “orders are orders.”

Post
#976321
Topic
For those doubting that GL had the whole saga planned out in detail while making IV
Time

KumoNin said:

Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

With all the other deliberate Siegfried and King Arthur parallels elsewhere in the OT, I’d say it’s actually damn surprising that the sibling incest is so downplayed in the films.

Post
#975849
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Tyrphanax said:

ATMachine said:

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)

Well I mean, to play Devil’s Advocate here, I would imagine Neimoidians might not speak English as their native tongue and they do have very odd mouths so I would assume they would speak English pretty awkwardly.

http://www.davechen.net/2012/02/racism-stereotypes-phantom-menace-star.html

In a 1999 article for the Boston Review, Alan Stone corroborates Gottlieb’s take on things. He also identifies one of the reasons why Lucas got himself in trouble: he made the aliens English-speaking. Unlike aliens from the previous Star Wars films (see: Chewbacca, the Ewoks, all the people in the Cantina scene), the aliens in this film spoke our language and had accents and other characteristics reminiscent of the ones found in ethnic stereotypes:

What has made my student and many other cultists of his generation feel betrayed is the new ingredient in Lucas’s recipe: aliens who, unlike any of the previous exotic life forms, suggest racist stereotypes. The evil henchmen in this story seem to be Fu Manchu style Asians, and the primitive Gungan people who live under the sea suggest old Hollywood stereotypes of African-Americans.

Exactly. Hiring non-English-speakers to voice the Neimoidians wouldn’t have been a bad idea per se, but doing that and then having English-speaking actors imitate those voices for the final cut is rather too close to Charlie Chan-style old Hollywood yellowface.

Post
#975793
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Nah, it’s not necessarily weird to not notice those things – but it’s definitely the sort of racial coding that ought to be avoided when writing.

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by other non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)