A B C

Just a quick question.

You guys are very technical and very scholar about all this as I don't, and I haven't followed the thread that far so, sorry if it sounds weird...

The last post from D_J mention a stereo mix. Are you making both stereo and 5.1 ? And if you make the later, does it means it has lower bitrate as it should take more space while the movie plays or what ?

... Or does a only-2track stereo mix on the DVD allows to have higher bitrate ?

That said I'd have love to have been able to try reediting and layer something like my work on ESB... Just only a dream...

Bonus question: are you upmixing yourself the stereo mixes to 5.1 if you make ones ?

Ripplin said:

... The sound field is nice and wide and you hear instruments in many different spots. :)

 I like reading how people perceive / or translate their perception of the sound.

If I had to compare these recordings, I'd say the digital ones from the sessions show an horizontal space (stereo quality), when the analog ones rather have a vertical orientated space (depth quality). And if we tried to invert this affirmation we would be more confronted to a quantity question, rather than a quality one  I think... :)

Only the layered tracks borrow both these two qualities... In a way.

dark_jedi said:

... I think I am going to take clips from this set for the audio on my DVD menu's, would that be OK with you ABC?

If you want to reedit all the score in the film from that set I would still be glad  (despite the DVD audio compression) !

I' m just a little jealous as I surely won't be able to witness your great reconstructions.

The only thing I notice, wich remain subtle, is how much the horns bump the level on the left quite fast, indeed. But I've heard worst in that track (tape corruption at 1'07" for instance).

Ripplin said:

Oh, I hear sort of a 'skip' or like there's a split second of audio missing at 1:51 in "Darth Vader's Trap" (...) I went back and checked a couple of times and it did it each time.

 Are you sure your feeling on this matter is right... ?

Well, curious I was I just checked myself and I wondered - as I don't have an obvious manifestation of that nor on my original, neither on my uploaded copy - if your ears may have been somehow fooled by the over-modulation on that part.

Note that it is one the Most corrupted segment of all the score... Surely one of the famous sessions tape's unrestorable dying bit. It would be bad that my Flac files present this passage corrupted even further.

... And there was no edit from me at 1'51".

damieneo said:

Oh, there's a booklet for the set? Did I miss it somehow? Can't seem to locate where and how to get them. Any help?

It is in "part2" with the 3rd CD.

Btw, if anyone lacks of time to experience the complete score, I suggest you begin with CD3... That was a bit the idea. There's no huge differences, just slight variations in the EQ's (in order to intend an overall more rounded sound).

Oh, sorry. I thought it was of vital importance.

...

Creeping death at large !!! But let's keep calm...

(English + french subtitles)

Part 1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdnq3n_partie-1-lindsey-williams-explicati_news#from=embed?start=32

Part 2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdob84_golf-du-mexique-gaz-mortel_news

...

I found this by coincidence... Don't know if people here are interested.

Read Here

Grab here

this is the (so far) final version of superstructure chase reconstructed

I like the "so far" part !

Fishmanlee,

Superstructure Chase was not recorded in Abbey Road studios...

Eric Tomlinson (recording engineer) said:

"I went down to talk to John williams when he was conducting (...) He couldn't hear a damn thing in there".

"I took it back to Abbey Road and I spent days trying to make it sound like Abbey Road and I just couldn't. We gave up in the end and although it sounded OK in the studio at Olympic, it didn't match up with the preceding or the following cue. They almost dropped it but it was too important to drop".

Also, "Tie Fighter Attack" from Star Wars has some mixing mistakes as far as I know.

...

Now, hoping you won't ignore this advise as you ignored Adywan's ones a few time ago, I highly recommend you to forget such tracks or even such recordings, and try to learn something through possible improvements: the soundtrack industry is full of relatively good recordings that only wait a few and subtle equalizations to sound "ace" ! Also, please work in lossless with uncorrupted files... And stop spoiling my work too, or I'll post a new topic called "Fishmanlee's SW scores mega-improvements" that will make you regret this !

Be subtle, be tasty, and please, use the Force !

Just spotted, watching Adywan's reconstruction recently, and now that I really know that score note per note that it misses a couple of things in the current version I made...

There are special little variations in editing here and there... Notably in "Battle In The Snow" (a very subtle edited bit), a repetion I missed in "Luke's first crash", a subtle variation in the "Asteroid field" near the begining (though I wonder if it's not simply a bad edit in the film), what else ?... Oh yeah: the "City In The Clouds" have not the 9 first sec. segment in the film, "The Magic Tree" I made must be the SE version, not the original... And also spotted the "Hyperspace" track had special edit in the film (same kind than "Snowspeeders")...

There may be more, but frankly, even with the more rudimentary digital tools (I used audacity for the AE), anyone will be able to make a new and accurate version if he wills. The only matter is to know the score very well.

Just so you know. ;)

Edit: Anyone is invited to feed this thread (or another) with a new version, of course ! I don't know if I'll make one myself.

oglasifwd said:

The Empire Strikes Back is truly a magnificent classic - it even brings closer the nostalgic sound of gold Hollywood era of big and romantic spectacles long before era of Star Wars...

 I must say, I'm really glad if you can ignore my hands and appreciate this masterpiece that way. It was really the goal here, what was perhaps not the case in my previous efforts (ego traps, you know... heh!).

Any thoughts about the liner notes in general btw ?

I thought they were of great importance to understand what may be wrong... or good... in those recordings (ok, mostly for me, working on these I'd concur)... Just a thought, as nobody mentioned these, I wondered if it brought as much light to you guys than they did for me. I thought a compilation of these great and rare sources was more than due (thanks to msycamore), mostly seeing how much half of you guys are sharp on technical, as to avoid the... "fuckwith factor"! Beside, as a non-english I was wondering about how the effort - or even the necessity - would be perceived... I still really don't know.

I'm not asking you to send me flowers for that of course. Just thought that was worth the mention, unless most people maybe would prefer a soundtrack analysis, thing that I hate.

skyjedi2005 said:

...

 I was going to ask what exactly AE is,lol.

 

DOH audiophile edition, lol.

Your newest go on fixing Empire Strikes Back, right?

I was already satisfied with star wars and empire.  Still i appreciate this anyway.

It's nice to reply but such a post really highlights the great consideration from other people who gave real feedbacks until now, who I'd like to thank here.

You already did your best with return of the jedi, sadly their is not much that can be recovered from available recordings.  The best sounding soundwise is a truncated 1 LP or 1 CD from RSO.  I have both, the CD is almost sonically identical is not as warm as the vinyl.

The CD sounds quite awesome when remastered correctly, and is a nice guide for the other recordings.

For what is "the best I can do", I don't know how you can tell such a thing as you don't really know me, nor what I can really do when I decided I haven't finished with a work... Whatever! ;)

My input, if it can help...

If you are melting sources and looks you can't have a perfect match, just make sure the waveform is not inverted from a source to another.

Another thought, concerning the kind of mixes you're all using around here, is that the wide stereo surely means to make a nice experience for all people who have special equipment... However I remixed (and downmixed) myself the "Asteroid Field" stereo and mono tracks from Star Wars Musical Journey and I can tell you Shawn Murhy's mix sounded awful next to the final 2-track version I finally made - only Msycamore here has heard the result, though I didn't let him compare with the downmixed untouched version. What I had recovered showed the overall sonority of the RSO track, with a lower dynamic range and with compression artifacts they made for the DVD unfortunately obvious in the highest peaks.

What I'd like to point out anyway is that the stereo widening for 5.1 experience sounds totally unatural to me as a 2-track stereo shape. To obtain the best version I could, close to any musical experience for Hi-Fi ect..., I had to narrow the stereo with a stereo widening filter: about 30% for the rear stereo, 70% for the front stereo channels (100% beeing no change) + of course re-equalised the two pairs of tracks + the main center channel. The main consequence that really stroke me listening to the result is how much you can restore the dynamic range when you give back a more natural stereo by narrowing it.

Now, if I had to remix such a material I would try to give the wideness feeling through equalizations, and would perhaps even try to give the more relief as possible through two complementary EQ's, more bass-oriented for the front stereo, and highs for the rear... Don't know, but I guess

I strongly suspect this way of feeling and thinking the sound can make you reconsider the 5.1 phenomenon.

I'm not an audio "expert" though ;)... Just use the Force !

Ric Olie said:

And just like everyone on that new ABC show Happy Town, we're going to have a really fun time full of happy...ish...ness.

 ABC show ? :/ My poor boy !

Oh yeah, I noticed JW's name and the ESB logo should have been a little higher... That's a bit too just.

Ripplin said:

Yes, we're [mostly] all looking forward to what Ady does with ROTJ, and even more so seeing how he tears apart the PT.

 My !!!... You'll still be posting there in a dozen of years ! That's amazing !

Anyway, the related input was a minor point in my post, though it may be a major point in (ady)one's life...

What I mostly wanted to express is that I really discovered something (new!) by watching this rendition of ESB ! Again, thanks for this revelation, and for giving us back this masterpiece ! ;)

Ensign Eddie said:

ABC,

What is the font name of the "classic font" you are using? I have looked around and can't seem to get a perfect match.

Franklin Gothic book

Franklin Gothic heavy

Arial Black

+ you'll have to play with italic/bold options (real or "fake")

Are you correcting the spelling mistakes or changing the presentation (just curious) ?

Thanks.

P.S. The set is terrific, by the way!

 ... Wrong thread ! ;)

DVwerks said:

The samples of artwork for this project are incredibly beautiful and professional looking. I love it when I see a homemade or fan project that is at first glance indistinguishable from a commercially released item. Kudos!

Thanks, the final cover with the SD, though just a variation is even better ;)

I don't have anymore sofware currently on my computer to resize it and to show it there but if anyone will to post it at 25 or 33 % that would be great (... with the title on the edge ;))

dark_jedi said:

Ripplin said:

dark_jedi said:

apparently this audio is not as important as I once thought, only 2 people to check it out for me,hmmm.

Um, it's more like a lot of people just don't know about that stuff. Don't worry about it. The ones that do check it out would likely give you far more useful feedback than if, say, someone like me tried. ;)

Actually I think you are wrong there, you would be surprised at what people can find, the more the merrier, because I really want to get this as right as I can, is that asking to much? I think not.

 Reminds me a bit someone's state of mind... A guy called ABC or so... He would surely concur.

I don't have the links with me but they're easy to find... There are not as much "star wars remastered flac" sets on the web so you would miss them ;)

Ripplin said:

I think I'm going to make the discs this afternoon. I'll be home for the rest of the day and have some time to myself to do...whatever. (had a CAT scan this morning, didn't get enough sleep)

 Beware, I never warned about that before but the sound temper of the AE tends to make me fall asleep whenever I'm only a bit tired ! (not a joke)

... Sorry for the multi-posts!

Savage said:

...

However, my end-all, be-all version will be more or less like the anthology version with the final note fade-out of Yoda's theme into the Imperial March, with the percussion-less March to follow.  On the AE (as you very well know :) ), the album version has the fade out, with the concert version Imperial March, while the film version has a more abrupt cut between Yoda and the March, but without the percussion (as heard during the end credits).

Anyway, for my own personal edification, I'm going to make an amalgamation of the tracks for myself since it will be pretty easy with the quality they are now.  And maybe I'll get cracking on that RSO double vinyl recut with these as the source...then again, maybe not. ;)

...

 BTW, I think I haven't managed this film version as it deserved... I think it needs (talking about the percussion-less bit) to be re-balanced without too much hesitation on the left, just try it. It should make the stereo better, give back many instruments and in the same time lower the over-saturation. You could even try with my very first mastering of it (the OT ST "salvage") wich doesn't need pitch/speed correction besides ...

Yeah, I've been lazzy on that one for the AE, re-using the OE version only correcting the pitch/speed while I should have reconsidered the mastering...

;)

Hi Adywan,

As you perhaps know, and though I have downloaded and enjoyed your SW-R version, I was mostly there in the past to share my own work on SW scores. That means I don't feel concerned that much in video editing and never figured out what words like Gout or AVCHD mean or involve... And DVD are too much GB and time for me to download... However I really was curious of this reconstruction, curiosity that perhaps has been increased by the last thing I work on ;) - And when I figured out what was JDownloader and how easy was then the DL, despite my dying computer, I finally grabed your work.

... In short: awesome !

Sharp but not too much, as I love.

The colors are very agreable: all the snow sequences are beautiful (and I think the blues are the more difficult colors to work on), Dagobah is very inspiring, and Bespin...! I didn't remember the set and lights were so rich despite the white walls everywhere.

Someone said it already and I concur: the colors from the scenes in the Carbon Freeze facitilies are very impressive and look right as never.

Next to such a level of subtleties I found the sequences in the rebel bunker (where there are all the screens and lights) were - perhaps - a little too much saturated, as I found the lightsaber duel in the City's core had sometimes a bit too much blacks, though it doesn't feel wrong... Don't know what you think... Anyway, that's only a light feeling about a few sequences.

The sound was very good, but I can't tell more considering my facility for that.

BUT MOSTLY... The main thing that stroke me like never in a film is the photographic work on light and shadows that flows through the whole movie. After I saw the film I came backward and removed your beautiful colors, and watched a few sequences like this in black and white... I always had the idea and the will to watch this film in black & white and I never knew why... Now I know ! There's really a particuliar work on that film and your work really shows that up ! Next time I'll watch it, it will be in that shape !

Thanks for this valuable (or unvaluable) piece ! I love it :) Bravo !

I would highly encourage you to avoid spending such talents and skills on rubbishes like RotJ or worst (the prequels), but I guess it won't be heard, and surely half of the people here are going to throw me stones !

ps: I'd love to see a B&W muted version of ESB with J. Williams original scoring reconstructed in it... ;) A matter of light and shadows ! just a foolish thought, though.

Moth3r said:

WTF? This is the second time you've banned yourself - what are you playing at?

 Mmmhh ? Yeah, sorry... Other mission, other profile.

Current mission: lurking around + mostly one feedback to give. Besides, gonna change my avatar as soon as I can make one.

TV's Frink said:

A B C said:

But let's go back on topic before we attract some other cheesy guy here ! ;)

Grrrrrrr...

 Hehehe. Caught !

adywan said:

 

... i enabled the crystalizer function on my soundblaster X-Fi Fatality soundcard and my god it was like listening to it again for the first time. if anyone has this feature on their pc then just try it with this enabled and you can see just how clear ABC has made this soundtrack.

I'm glad to learn you're able to appreciate the sound even on your computer ! I worked mainly on an old one (for mastering) as the more recent one I used for editing was quite poor at highlighting any improvement in the sound...

there was a slight flaw (noticed without the crystalizer enabled) on "main title"  at about 2:42 that i mentioned to ABC about where the stereo field seems to shift but loses some of the left channel for a second or so then it kicks back in. I don't know if this is on the original source or not because i haven't heard that in a long time. But really this is nothing.

Oh yeah, that's simple: the SE has the famous missing bit, and goes back to that segment we know. this latter one is featured in the LP and the RSO CD, on the Anthology too, but only the SE as a neat biginning for that segment...

Then, the first 3 seconds belong to the SE and as you noticed it misses sound, mostly the violins, on the left channel. So it's a splice between the SE and the Anthology (The RSO was unusable on that 10 sec bit, because the stereo didn't fit if I remember, or perhaps because of the weird synthetizer echo wich was going on, I mean the one they added on this early release for transition with the previous bit).

Anyway, I considered the editing and the matching sonority was good enough to let it go, mostly when it's not that noticeable on HI-FI speakers (... it is totally noticeable with headphones though). I could have tried the same thing I've done on "mynock cave" however, when I borrowed a little of the opposite channels to make the stereo of the two different releases match - the stereo tracks on that SE one really needed a "bridge" ! - But I didn't felt it would turn so good on that "Ice Planet" bit... There was just too much work and things to try around with the other tracks to focus on this.

I admit I though that was funny to let it go to show both the editing and the mastering quality... A little as a "souvenir" ! :)

 

Thank you ABC for all your hard work in giving us this amazing piece of work.

Great ! :)

p.p.s i did try replying to you a while back but it wouldn't let me because it said i wasn't on your friends list. i hope you don't think i was ignoring your messages

Hehe !... "Not on my friend list". Note that it's Jay's software wich says that, not me !

Well, sorry again, indeed I should have warn everyone you couldn't reply to my PM's... Truth is I prefer to read feedback here, not only to advertise the work, but also to retrieve some useful inputs later if needed... Who know ?

... And for the last point: yes, I remember I thought (for a while) ;)