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my memory isn't that bad, is it? (in SW '77 - Luke misses with the grappling hook?) — Page 3
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Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Isn't it possible that the grappling hook footage scene was featured in a documentary or show of some kind? Not as an entire scene, but maybe as an out-take? That doesn't require a new IP.
I just find it hard to believe that all this is solely based on the novelization.
And this is aside the point, but didn't a small amount of the Biggs footage appear in a TV-aired SW documentary in the 80s?
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
It's kind of like the film "Aliens", where there was apparently a scene that was only shown on the opening day of the release, where Ripley does up her futuristic Reebok shoes. Despite the fact that numerous people have recollections of this scene, it has not appeared on any release since. So, does it exist? .
It's kind of like the film "Aliens", where there was apparently a scene that was only shown on the opening day of the release, where Ripley does up her futuristic Reebok shoes. Despite the fact that numerous people have recollections of this scene, it has not appeared on any release since. So, does it exist? .
I might have to re-check, but I remember that scene appearing in a trailer or tie-in commercial
Star Wars 1977-1983
Star Trek 1966-1991
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
The thing is, numerous people have copies of Star Wars taped off the air from when it was broadcast at various times in various parts of the world. Many of us have watched them, specifically looking for different shots like this. And it's NOT IN THERE. Not one single person has found a copy that has a missed grappling hook shot in it. Not ever to this day. If that was shown, *twice* even, when it aired on TV... we would have found it on one of the taped copies. It's not there.oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
Now, I'm willing to admit the possibility that some alternate footage may have been aired during some weird one-off TV special that may not have resurfaced yet. But I'm doubtful even of that. I too have a vague recollection of Luke missing with the grappling hook, but I know it is from my reading the novel before I even saw the film. You guys who think you saw it with your own eyes... overwhelming evidence to the contrary says no. I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Again, 50 bucks to the first person to present real, hard evidence of the missed grappling hook shot. All I hear still is talk!
--SKot
Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]
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Originally posted by: SKot
Now, I'm willing to admit the possibility that some alternate footage may have been aired during some weird one-off TV special that may not have resurfaced yet. But I'm doubtful even of that. I too have a vague recollection of Luke missing with the grappling hook, but I know it is from my reading the novel before I even saw the film. You guys who think you saw it with your own eyes... overwhelming evidence to the contrary says no. I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Again, 50 bucks to the first person to present real, hard evidence of the missed grappling hook shot. All I hear still is talk!
--SKot
Originally posted by: Wesyeed
oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
The thing is, numerous people have copies of Star Wars taped off the air from when it was broadcast at various times in various parts of the world. Many of us have watched them, specifically looking for different shots like this. And it's NOT IN THERE. Not one single person has found a copy that has a missed grappling hook shot in it. Not ever to this day. If that was shown, *twice* even, when it aired on TV... we would have found it on one of the taped copies. It's not there.oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
Now, I'm willing to admit the possibility that some alternate footage may have been aired during some weird one-off TV special that may not have resurfaced yet. But I'm doubtful even of that. I too have a vague recollection of Luke missing with the grappling hook, but I know it is from my reading the novel before I even saw the film. You guys who think you saw it with your own eyes... overwhelming evidence to the contrary says no. I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Again, 50 bucks to the first person to present real, hard evidence of the missed grappling hook shot. All I hear still is talk!
--SKot
Thank you, oh voice of reason. How many star wars fans are there on the web? Well over a hundred thousand. At least fifty percent of those are involved in communities and digging up collectibles and whatnot, even just in passing, and if there is a piece of star wars footage aired or some collectable released, you can be damn sure that about fifty different people can post hard copy evidence and information about such a thing. This grappling hook thing is bogus--i don't doubt a genuine memory of it, but twenty five year old vague childhood memories are not relyable sources. In fact, just yesterday i saw a thread started by some younger fan at TF.N stating that he swore he remembered an alternate ending to TPM where they battles Maul over a river of lava or something and was wondering if anyone else saw it. Mulitple people have also posted about remembering Leia spitting on Vader in the torture chamber and of course there is the infamous case where hundreds all agreed that the Biggs footage was edited into an early 80's TV broadcast. And all of these people's so-called "memories" agreed with each other, people who had never even met. Its not uncommon. But every peice of Star Wars footage that was ever aired has been identified, analysed and posted in hard copy from multiple sources.
I am suspecting that these "rope missing" memories may stem from a behind-the-scenes program. The chasm sequence was heavily documented by the documentary crew on set and i've seen lots of footage from the making of that sequence--and i am sure when Mark Hamill had to throw the rope, he missed. Likely he had to throw it to a stage hand off camera, or a mark on the floor a few yards away--and its also likely that they may have even filmed a few takes in succession, having mark thrown, pull it back in, throw again, et cetera, to give some variations in the takes. I am guessing that a clip which may include or indicate this type of scenario is what is the impetus for all these false memories of it be included in the 1977 cut, or some obscure or unobscure TV broadcast.
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Thank you, oh voice of reason. How many star wars fans are there on the web? Well over a hundred thousand. At least fifty percent of those are involved in communities and digging up collectibles and whatnot, even just in passing, and if there is a piece of star wars footage aired or some collectable released, you can be damn sure that about fifty different people can post hard copy evidence and information about such a thing. This grappling hook thing is bogus--i don't doubt a genuine memory of it, but twenty five year old vague childhood memories are not relyable sources. In fact, just yesterday i saw a thread started by some younger fan at TF.N stating that he swore he remembered an alternate ending to TPM where they battles Maul over a river of lava or something and was wondering if anyone else saw it. Mulitple people have also posted about remembering Leia spitting on Vader in the torture chamber and of course there is the infamous case where hundreds all agreed that the Biggs footage was edited into an early 80's TV broadcast. And all of these people's so-called "memories" agreed with each other, people who had never even met. Its not uncommon. But every peice of Star Wars footage that was ever aired has been identified, analysed and posted in hard copy from multiple sources.
I am suspecting that these "rope missing" memories may stem from a behind-the-scenes program. The chasm sequence was heavily documented by the documentary crew on set and i've seen lots of footage from the making of that sequence--and i am sure when Mark Hamill had to throw the rope, he missed. Likely he had to throw it to a stage hand off camera, or a mark on the floor a few yards away--and its also likely that they may have even filmed a few takes in succession, having mark thrown, pull it back in, throw again, et cetera, to give some variations in the takes. I am guessing that a clip which may include or indicate this type of scenario is what is the impetus for all these false memories of it be included in the 1977 cut, or some obscure or unobscure TV broadcast.
I am suspecting that these "rope missing" memories may stem from a behind-the-scenes program. The chasm sequence was heavily documented by the documentary crew on set and i've seen lots of footage from the making of that sequence--and i am sure when Mark Hamill had to throw the rope, he missed. Likely he had to throw it to a stage hand off camera, or a mark on the floor a few yards away--and its also likely that they may have even filmed a few takes in succession, having mark thrown, pull it back in, throw again, et cetera, to give some variations in the takes. I am guessing that a clip which may include or indicate this type of scenario is what is the impetus for all these false memories of it be included in the 1977 cut, or some obscure or unobscure TV broadcast.
Yup. Things like this Photoreceptor entry don't help the confusion.
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Can you describe the photo for those of us without hyperspace access?
Thanks!
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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Here's my e-mail to him:
Mr. Foster,
I am a Star Wars fan, and I was hoping I could ask you about your ghost-written novelization of Star Wars.
In the novelization, when Luke and Leia are trapped in the Death Star chasm, Luke throws the rope twice, missing on the first throw. However, in the movie, Luke only throws his grappling hook once.
Was this "missed throw" based on something provided by Lucasfilm (early script, production photos, etc.), or did you add it yourself to increase tension? I realize this was a long time ago, but I hope you have some vague memories about this.
I ask because it has become something of a Star Wars urban legend. Many people have claimed that they saw Luke's missed throw in theaters or on TV, while many others have claimed these were false memories that were inspired by the novelization.
Thanks for your time
Mr. Foster's reply:
Hi Erik;
As near as I can recall, it was something I added, as you correctly
perceive, to increase tension.
The things people remember....
Regards,
Alan F
Very interesting. I guess that blows most of my theories out of the water.
Originally posted by: zombie84
I am suspecting that these "rope missing" memories may stem from a behind-the-scenes program. The chasm sequence was heavily documented by the documentary crew on set and i've seen lots of footage from the making of that sequence--and i am sure when Mark Hamill had to throw the rope, he missed. Likely he had to throw it to a stage hand off camera, or a mark on the floor a few yards away--and its also likely that they may have even filmed a few takes in succession, having mark thrown, pull it back in, throw again, et cetera, to give some variations in the takes. I am guessing that a clip which may include or indicate this type of scenario is what is the impetus for all these false memories of it be included in the 1977 cut, or some obscure or unobscure TV broadcast.
I'm still thinking there may be something to this. I plan on reviewing The Making of Star Wars to see if there's anything that might show Mark Hamill missing.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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I did have a recorded TV broadcast on vhs that I used to watch everyday when I was like 4 years old. My first purchased copy of the SW trilogy was the '97 SE's and upon watching them for the first time it really stuck out in my mind that Luke made the throw first time around and him and Leia made the swing etc.
Whether I remembered incorrectly or this was edited for the SE I did not know, but it was soon forgetton about as I watched the SE a bunch of times and it became normal for me seeing Luke make the throw first time.
Sadly I no longer have that vhs tape of the tv broadcast. Actually, from my childhood I had two recordings of different tv broadcasts of SW. which one I am remembering or think I am remembering I don't know.
All this is probably my mind playing tricks on me, because as a kid I could have sworn that Luke shot the controls to extend the bridge by accident as he nearly runs over the edge. But we all know he does it on purpose a few moments later to stop the stormtrooper coming through the door.
I guess its safe to say kids don't get everything that happens in a movie, well at least I didn't. Though it didn't stop me from enjoying it any less.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
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When I was young, I have seen at least 5 different versions of Star Wars. My first Star Wars source was a probably 50th generation copy of a terribly washed-out pan&scan version with english audio with polish voice-over and russian subtitles. It was in the time when I didn't know english, polish or russian so I didn't undersand a word but I loved the movie :-) Later, I have seen several times on PRO7 a german version, I loved the names Ce Drei Pe O and Er Zwo De Zwo :-) and btw it was in the time when I didn't understand german :-) . Then in the late 80's / early 90's I have seen several times a czech version (finally a language I understand at least slightly :-) ) and I had also an official P&S VHS, which I can't find :-( . Then of course I have seen the Special Edition in cinema, TV and VHS and I have also the offical DVD.
I have NEVER heard the Radio Show, I have NEVER read the comic book and I have read the novell last year for the first time. That's only for those of you, who think that my memories can come from there.
I remember these things (from unknown version/s) :
The "hook & bridge" sequence was like this - Luke damaged the controls, shot the hook, but missed. Then he was kissed by Leia for "inspiration" and the rest was the same (second try, second kiss). I always thought it is a good joke and a great example what a young man can do, whan he's kissed by a beautifull girl :-)
Luke meets Biggs in the hangar. Really, for me it was always there. Since 97 I read everywhere that this scene was added back to the special edition and I never understood what the hell are these people talking about, untill I saw the EditDroid bootleg about 2-3 years ago and I was shocked that the scene is not there !
Another but shorter scene - the rebel meeting, after "that's impossible even 4 a computer" Luke says that hee used to shoot wamp rats at home, and they don't have 2 meters . THEN he looks at the guy, gives him his hand a says "Luke Skywalker", the other guy shakes his hand and says "Wedge Antilles". The rest is the same.
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I love the fact that you loved SW and didn't understand what was being said, very cool.
I just wanted to add that I've never read the novel, comic or any additional material, and I can't recall ever seeing a SW documentary in my youth.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
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The thing is that kids memories can do crazy things. Children re-interpret, mis-interpret and inaccurately remember things. I remember thinking that when Luke shoots the stormtrooper on the chasm and he goes "oooh" and falls off the ledge that it was Han going "Luke! Nooo" because Luke accidentally shot him in disguise. In fact, TFN has a 50+ page thread about stuff like that, i think called "Things is Star Wars that you misunderstood as a Child" or something similar to that.
The fact that Foster admits he made it up is enough to totally discredit all these claims. Are we to believe that Foster invented something out of his own mind in order to add dramatic tension something that wasn't in the original version of the film but then was completely coincidentally found in an obscure TV version to be exactly the way Foster wrote it? Foster is saying he made it up, so for Lucas to film something, delete it and then add it in only for a once-in-a-lifetime TV broadcast and have it coincidentally be exactly the same as the way Foster invented it from his mind is too much of a coincidence to ignore.
Furthermore, the wildly different accounts of this scene indicate that its just childhood memories. Some say that Leia kissed Luke to inspire him after missing, some say that he just threw it before, some say it was a rare 1977 print, some say it was an obscure 80's TV broadcast. This goes hand in hand with people who claim "i remember seeing footage of Leia spitting on Vader," "I remember seeing the Biggs footage," "I remember Luke missing the rope," "I remember Luke accidentally shooting the controls,"--and in ever single one of thse, every single one from every single claim, the excuse is always "oh, but i haven't seen the tape that it was on for about two decades now--if only i still had it!" Gee, what a surprise.
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Like me having also having absolutely no recollection of the scene in which C3PO recounts the groups adventures to the ewoks. Doesn't mean it wasn't there in some obscure TV broadcast.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
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Originally posted by: SKot
Now, I'm willing to admit the possibility that some alternate footage may have been aired during some weird one-off TV special that may not have resurfaced yet. But I'm doubtful even of that. I too have a vague recollection of Luke missing with the grappling hook, but I know it is from my reading the novel before I even saw the film. You guys who think you saw it with your own eyes... overwhelming evidence to the contrary says no. I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Again, 50 bucks to the first person to present real, hard evidence of the missed grappling hook shot. All I hear still is talk!
--SKot
Originally posted by: Wesyeed
oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
The thing is, numerous people have copies of Star Wars taped off the air from when it was broadcast at various times in various parts of the world. Many of us have watched them, specifically looking for different shots like this. And it's NOT IN THERE. Not one single person has found a copy that has a missed grappling hook shot in it. Not ever to this day. If that was shown, *twice* even, when it aired on TV... we would have found it on one of the taped copies. It's not there.oh come on. I saw it with my own eyes, twice when it aired on tv.
It's a common thing. Superman when broadcast on tv had deleted scenes and stuff put back in to extend its length for whatever reason. Maybe it's the same with star wars... I don't know. But this is no urban legend... someone out there must have this on tape.
Now, I'm willing to admit the possibility that some alternate footage may have been aired during some weird one-off TV special that may not have resurfaced yet. But I'm doubtful even of that. I too have a vague recollection of Luke missing with the grappling hook, but I know it is from my reading the novel before I even saw the film. You guys who think you saw it with your own eyes... overwhelming evidence to the contrary says no. I think your mind is playing tricks on you.
Again, 50 bucks to the first person to present real, hard evidence of the missed grappling hook shot. All I hear still is talk!
--SKot
You can tell me it didn't but that really won't change my memory of it happening... I can't believe there's such a vehement denial of this possible lost footage... Why are so many against the missed grapple??? Anyway I think the people here who say it didn't happen can prove it didn't about as much as those of us who say it did.
I saw it. I remember it. And that's all the proof I have. WPIX New York Channel 11 is the station it aired on. I never knew it was such a rare sight or I would have recorded it and everyone would have to eat crow who says it doesn't exist right now... but sigh... I didn't and well what more can I say on the matter but believe whatever you want to believe.
"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Anyway I think the people here who say it didn't happen can prove it didn't about as much as those of us who say it did.
It is impossible to prove that it didn't happen. The "Didn't-Happeners" could go through every known archive on Earth, but the possibility would remain that there was an undiscovered archive, or that the footage was destroyed.
If it did happen, it would be fairly easy to prove. The "Did-Happeners" need only find one piece of film, or one video.
It's like a cryptid, or a ghost, or any other paranormal phenomenon. You can't prove that it doesn't exist, because demonstrating that something never existed anywhere requires the investigation of everything everywhen. You can't do it. But to prove something does exist requires only one verifiable, significant observation. That's why we believe in top quarks, black holes, and quantum tunneling, but not the missed grappling hook throw.
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Seems that you added nothing BUT effects, and you cut the ORIGINAL NEGS to do it! Baaaad move, because someday you are going to need HD bonus material for your HD ultradeluxe box set Mk. MCMLXII, and you are going to have a hard time piecing it all back together. Unless you really do have a laser-scanned 2K version of the '94 THX theatrical rereleases that you're sitting on, which you would have been stupid not to keep, no matter how many 5GB hard drives it would have required back then.
But then again, maybe that part of the interview was only in the novel...
I’m not much more than an interpreter, and not very good at telling stories. Well, not at making them interesting, anyway.
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The most common claim for these "alternate scenes" in Star Wars is that they were shown on some obscure TV broadcast. But the fact is, none of these broadcasts were really obscure. Star Wars airing on TV was always a big event, especially in the early days, and hundreds, thousands of people taped them every time. And the fact is, out of all of these taped copies of all of the times that Star Wars ever aired on TV, none of them have ever had any alternate footage in them. Not a single one, ever. We've had people going over these videotapes with a fine-toothed comb. There has been an alternate soundtrack aired in the UK (mono), but the footage itself has always been the same.
I will be more than happy to eat crow if someone can produce real evidence (i.e., actual taped footage) otherwise. Somehow, I have a really strong feeling that's not going to happen.
--SKot
Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]
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So I finally did. And guess what? There's nothing there.
However, I did find something else...
Originally posted by: zombie84
None of these exist you guys. There has never been any extended or alternate ANH edits--to do so would require going back to the negative and re-striking a new edited IP. None of these things are in the script, in stills, in any sort of official source of movie deletions or the lengthy deleted scenes lists that even the official site has exhaustedly chronicled, and all people have is vague memories--just like years ago people by the hundred swore they saw the biggs footage on TV.
None of these exist you guys. There has never been any extended or alternate ANH edits--to do so would require going back to the negative and re-striking a new edited IP. None of these things are in the script, in stills, in any sort of official source of movie deletions or the lengthy deleted scenes lists that even the official site has exhaustedly chronicled, and all people have is vague memories--just like years ago people by the hundred swore they saw the biggs footage on TV.
There is about a 7 second clip of Luke and Biggs walking, but we don't hear any dialogue.
Download the clip here
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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