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first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds — Page 6

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I just think it's a bad idea to think, "I'm going to buy these crappy discs not because I want them, but because it might convince George to sell me something else that's better." It just makes me sick when I see that logic, and it makes me feel even more sick to think that George has that stranglehold over it like that.
I don't think this is the case at all, though. The fact is, George has enough money. He doesn't try *not* to make money, but whether a particular thing does or doesn't make money isn't his primary concern anymore. He does what he wants, regardless. The fact is, NOTHING is going to convince George Lucas to do something he doesn't want to do... unless someone close to him manages to sway him that direction. Which rarely happens, since he's generally surrounded by people too afraid to speak out most of the time. In the case of the September DVDs, I think it actually happened: someone had the guts to talk him into releasing the OOT. But as we know, it was only a partial victory.

Give it time. There will be another, better release later... I'll wager the Falcon in a game of sabacc over it. But don't give up the fight.

Remember:
"Star Wars will never be on home video."
(release of all the films on home video follows)
"No Star Wars film will come out on DVD until after the prequels are complete."
(release of Episode I on DVD follows)
"The original trilogy will not come out on DVD until the prequels are complete."
(release of SE OT on DVD follows, prior to Episode III's completion)
"The SE is George Lucas' vision; the OUT will not be released again."
(release of OUT on DVD follows)
"We have no plans to release the OUT in anamorphic widescreen."
...time will tell.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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I'm not going to say he needs the money, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that a lot of the products released are not created solely to milk the cash cow. Think about last year. Exactly a year after the '04 releases came out, they're repackaged without the bonus disc and released again. Less than a year after that, we'll have these new releases. If the general speculation is true, about eight months later, we'll have some stupid new uber boxset. So two and a half years might possibly see four releases of the Star Wars trilogy with so far no changes to the SE vision. If he's not updating the movies, what other reason can there possibly be than to simply make a quick buck off of them?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I think the true purpose of this release came out at Comic Con. As Sansweet explains, the initial intent was to sell the SE individually. Then, they asked if they could add the OOT as a double-package, likely explaining all the revenue lost from bootlegs--which Lucas agrees to, provided absolutely no money is spent doing it. So they dig up the Laserdisk masters from a dusty drawer at the Lucasfilm archives and bingo--the hottest selling point of the year! "OOT on DVD!"

Thats all there is to it. They are getting rid of the excess 2004 SE stock, just like they were in 2005 when they re-sold the box set at a reduced price. Since that set sold so poorly they are marketing the new re-sale with the OOT.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
I think the true purpose of this release came out at Comic Con. As Sansweet explains, the initial intent was to sell the SE individually. Then, they asked if they could add the OOT as a double-package, likely explaining all the revenue lost from bootlegs--which Lucas agrees to, provided absolutely no money is spent doing it. So they dig up the Laserdisk masters from a dusty drawer at the Lucasfilm archives and bingo--the hottest selling point of the year! "OOT on DVD!"

Thats all there is to it. They are getting rid of the excess 2004 SE stock, just like they were in 2005 when they re-sold the box set at a reduced price. Since that set sold so poorly they are marketing the new re-sale with the OOT.


And at a slighty higher price, right?

About $45 for the trilogy set, $20 a pop for the individually packaged films.

Since everyone wants to be able to JUST buy ROTJ and not the other two.
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Super Mario Bros. - The Wicked Star Story
"Ah, the proverbial sad sack with a wasted wish."
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Thats all there is to it. They are getting rid of the excess 2004 SE stock, just like they were in 2005 when they re-sold the box set at a reduced price. Since that set sold so poorly they are marketing the new re-sale with the OOT.


Besides, they need to clear out the old stock so they can have an excuse to fix more problems and have a new release for '07. And by problems, I mean not fixing the matte lines or miscolored lightsabers, but adding dinosaurs to more scenes. And spaceships and characters from the comicbooks and video games. You know, his 'original vision'.
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Originally posted by: yanksno1
Originally posted by: Mike O
We're going to get fine DVDs of the OOT as part of a retrospective collection, you mark my words! I will not be palmed off with these September Discs!

Initially, I thought so too. I thought that LFL was using these discs to see if anyone would buy the OOT and then maybe they would remaster it for the 30th anniversary boxed set. Now, well, I'm not so sure. Apart from Sanwseet (who is really just parraoting what the higher-ups tell him anyway), there seem to be other signs. "We have no plans, now or in the future, to restore the earlier versions." And then there are all of the comments being made about how the real prouduct is the SE and this release is for people who don't care which versions they get and don't want to buy the boxed set (which makes absolutely no sense). Then there are Lucas's comments, however. "It's just the original versions as they were. We didn't do anything to them at all (No, you bloody well didn't.). We're not sure how many people want that. Now we'll find out whether people really wanted the originals, or whether they wanted the mproved versions. It will all come out in the end." So many people are probably going to avoid this release, that Lucas can easily say, "See? There is no demand for the original versions." And even if they do sell well, it doesn't gaurantee anything. He could just as easily say that now the minority who wanted the OOT have what they've wanted. We're passionate, but we're a minority (though perhaps a growing minority). Maybe all of the passion in the world can't change the fact that 2+2=4. Maybe Ozkeeper's brutally honest pessimistic/realistic post just rattled me. But this looks like the final nail in the coffin for OOT fans. Lucas appears to have won. There is the ray of hope of the discs well and the 30th anniversary. But my optimism is waning at this point. I guess that all we can do now is cross our fingers. I'm not giving up, but at this point, I just don't know what to do.

What's he going to say? "I'm releasing this crappy set with the OOT to persuade people who never bought the 2004 sets (since I have so many sitting in storage unsold), but just know there's a better set coming in a few months for the 30th anni." That's going to persuade a lot of people to buy them. The thing I look at this is the timing of it all. If this was the last set ever released, why wouldn't he wait till the 30th anni in a few months? It makes no sense to me other then they have a bunch of unsold 2004's sitting in storage and this is a new way to get rid of them. That's all. There should be a line on some gambling site on the chances of the uber set being released next year for the 30th anni, which I'm still banking on that happening.


This whole thing doesn't make any logical sense. Something here doesn't add up. The comments from LFL and Sansweet state that this was just an attempt to release the SEs individually. But the marketing campaign keeps streesing that the originals will be in the set, as though that is the reason to buy it. Then there are the conflicting reports. "We have no plans, now or in the future, to restore the earlier versions (they're the originals guys)." Then we have Lucas himself. "It's just the originals, as they were. We didn't do anything to them at all (no, you certainly didn't). We;re not sure how many people want that. Now (notice this word) we'll find out wheter people really (that word was italicized in the original interview) wanted the originals, or whether he wanted the improved version." Now, here's the interesting part. "It will all come out in the end." Now, this could mean an number of things. Lucas could just be talking to here his own voice. In other words, it might not mean anthing. It could mean that he wants to appease the minority (from his point of view) who want the OOT so that we will shut (which we of course won't until we get a release that treats the films with the respect which they deserve). There is, however, a third, very remote possibility. Perhaps, just perhaps, LFL were going to releae the films individually and then decided to include the originals to test the waters to see if there is a market for these versions, possibly for the 30th anniversary? Of course, LFL might have also just attached the OOT to sell the discs of the SEs, and really have no plans to include the originals ever again. And then there is the bizzare possibility that the latter was the original plan, and the former has become a side effect. There's just something here that doesn't add up. God willing, the situation will work out well. Maybe Ozkeeper's post and the Comicon situation just exacerbated the problem or put up in black and what what I already knew. I don't know yet. But come the 30th anniversary, if the discs aren't in it, which I for some reason doubt that they will (which is the opposite of what I thought a mere few days ago), then I just don't know. Maybe it will be over and maybe not. This whole thing is so confusing. But I have this nagging feeling that, with this release, Lucas has blown the doors on the situation wide open, and with Mark Hammil and, most particulary, Gary Kurtz, having a go at him in the press, it seems that, at the very least, this release has made a bit of noise, although whether that is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen. I guess that it depends on how pessimistic or optimistic you want to be. All that we can do now is wait and hope. Again.

Besides, they need to clear out the old stock so they can have an excuse to fix more problems and have a new release for '07. And by problems, I mean not fixing the matte lines or miscolored lightsabers, but adding dinosaurs to more scenes. And spaceships and characters from the comicbooks and video games. You know, his 'original vision'.


Which makes no sense. If his original vision will be in the 07 release, then why would they be trying to release the 05 version again? To make more money, obviously, but then why is Lucas so adamant about the originals not being his vison? Something isn't right here. Is there something going on that we don't know about? This doesn't make sense.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Its not that hard Mike. They just want another excuse to sell you the SE. But people won't buy it without a very good reason to (as evidenced by the failure of the 2005 release) so they are slapping on a laserdisk transfer and marketing that. Sansweet himself admitted the initial purpose was to re-sell the SE films individually. That is why the OOT is bonus material--its the bonus on the SE films to get you to buy it. The marketing focusing ONLY on the OOT release is obviously because that is the sets selling point. A proper release of the OOT will come out eventually but if they say this is the last time it will be available then we buy it now instead of waiting.
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Its not that hard Mike.

Take it easy!

Originally posted by: zombie84
They just want another excuse to sell you the SE. But people won't buy it without a very good reason to (as evidenced by the failure of the 2005 release) so they are slapping on a laserdisk transfer and marketing that. Sansweet himself admitted the initial purpose was to re-sell the SE films individually. That is why the OOT is bonus material--its the bonus on the SE films to get you to buy it. The marketing focusing ONLY on the OOT release is obviously because that is the sets selling point. A proper release of the OOT will come out eventually but if they say this is the last time it will be available then we buy it now instead of waiting.


I really think that we know much more about this than Sansweet does. He's proably just parroting what the higher-ups at LFL told him to. If there will be a quality release, then when? There is something more than meats the eye going on here. This just doesn't add up. What 2005 release? Why did it fail?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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That wasn't a flame thrown your way Mike just so there is no misunderstandings between us. Was just saying that the situation isn't as convoluted as LFL representatives make it seem.

Yeah--Sansweet is just repeating what the higher ups are telling him to tell us. Its a very unfortunate position for him to be in and I'm sure he is as dissapointed as many of us for this release.

As for 2005--the films were re-packaged in a three disk box set without the bonus disk at a reduced price and with different box art (depicting the original poster art--perhaps to sell it as the OOT?? I know at least one person who bought it thinking this!). The 2005 box set failed massively because it was pointless.
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That wasn't a flame thrown your way Mike just so there is no misunderstandings between us.


I meant no offense either. It's quite all right my Canadian friend (You know, near Detroit, you are to the south. Odd bit of triva) ! I was just saying that this release was either a really good sign or a really, really bad one. I guess we'll just have to wait. I hope that you're right about a good release coming out, and hopefully soon. Do you think that there's a chance of seeing it in the 30th boxed set, or no? just curious. Now if you'll exuse me, I'm going to go lift my spirits by watching The Shawshank Redemption.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Well, I don't see any evidence that my post went through from last night. I was at Comic Con. I know Steve Sansweet is saying what he does cause it's his job to. I give him credit for that. It's not his fault. But I won't be buying the dvds this fall. I'm watching the good movies for free. :: Does happy dance::
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I got this from the Digital Bits and it pisses me off that the OOT isn't getting the same treatment!

" Moving on this afternoon, here's something else that's very cool from Comic-Con. File this as Rumor Mill-worthy, but I learned while down in San Diego that not only is Paramount working to release The Ultimate Star Trek Movie Collection in high-definition on HD-DVD and (possibly) Blu-ray Disc... the studio is quietly remastering all 79 episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series for eventual high-def disc release as well. Paramount also has sparkling high-def masters of all 4 seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise to release on disc. Can't wait to see all of the above!"


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How long must we wait for a proper OOT release? I am not a patient man.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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George Lucas being one-upped by Star Trek...that ought to draw him out at some point.

All he does is continue to piss people off. Honestly, there are better ways we have to get the real OT. And it's been being done for a while now. Screw him.
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The only way he could get my total resect back was if he did an only OOT release somthing like this

Star Wars-
Remastered
Audio choice of mono/70mm/35mm/new 5.1 mix
crawl choice

Empire Strikes Back-
Remasterd
35mm and 70mm version on one disc via seamless branching
5.1 mix

Return Of The Jedi-
Remastered
Audio choice of 35mm/70mm/ 5.1 mix

I would be so happy if something like this was released, all in 16x9 format of course. One can dream though. But I think something like this will be in the 30th ann. boxset. I mean they just cleaned the prints last year agian.
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You said it, Darth Richard. That would be the way to go.
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You mean you expect The Empire Strikes Back to get the same level of attention as Halloween 4? You fans are never satisfied.
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I tend to agree with Mike-o. After this latest announcement, I'm not expecting anything good to come from Lucasfilm for the foreseeable future. I think eventually, after years have gone by and the TV series is ended and interest in SW is at an all time low and Lucasfilm has failed at every attempt to generate another hit and after years of begging Lucas to allow them to release the OUT in a modern format in order to hold on to their jobs for another year or two then maybe, just maybe.

Also, I have a question. I had heard that a restoration project is underway that actually has access to a film print. Can anyone confirm this?
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Originally posted by: Marvolo
I got this from the Digital Bits and it pisses me off that the OOT isn't getting the same treatment!

" Moving on this afternoon, here's something else that's very cool from Comic-Con. File this as Rumor Mill-worthy, but I learned while down in San Diego that not only is Paramount working to release The Ultimate Star Trek Movie Collection in high-definition on HD-DVD and (possibly) Blu-ray Disc... the studio is quietly remastering all 79 episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series for eventual high-def disc release as well. Paramount also has sparkling high-def masters of all 4 seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise to release on disc. Can't wait to see all of the above!"

Yeah, George is an idiot. Still, I watched a lot of the original Star Trek as a child and that news makes me excited.


Originally posted by: Darth Richard
The only way he could get my total resect back was if he did an only OOT release somthing like this

Star Wars-
Remastered
Audio choice of mono/70mm/35mm/new 5.1 mix
crawl choice

Empire Strikes Back-
Remasterd
35mm and 70mm version on one disc via seamless branching
5.1 mix

Return Of The Jedi-
Remastered
Audio choice of 35mm/70mm/ 5.1 mix

I would be so happy if something like this was released, all in 16x9 format of course. One can dream though. But I think something like this will be in the 30th ann. boxset. I mean they just cleaned the prints last year agian.


Oh how sweet that would be!

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
You mean you expect The Empire Strikes Back to get the same level of attention as Halloween 4? You fans are never satisfied.


Or Hillside Cannibals?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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OK, WTF is going on here?

Oh... one other thing this morning. You know how we were complaining a few months back that the original versions of the Star Wars films (due on 9/12) were going to look less than stellar in 15-year old, non-anamorphic, laserdisc-transfer quality video on DVD? A few thousand fans finally got a look at them at the Lucasfilm presentation at Comic-Con on Friday afternoon. Lucasfilm's Steve Sansweet had this to say to the assemblage: "The transfers from the bonus discs are absolutely incredible, because these are pristine master tapes, and I have NEVER seen - despite what you may have heard on Internet rumors - a better transfer of a movie."


I'm still not getting my hopes up, but taking a wait and see approach. I just a straight answer at this point. Jeez.
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I assume he meant he's never seen such a great looking NON-ANAMORPHIC transfer of a movie.... honestly Lucasfilm's handling of this release just defies belief!!! Lies and mis-information at every turn! How can a 13 year old transfer with de-interlacing artifacts and losuey digital noise-reduction muck on the screen possibly be considered an awsome transfer? Unbelievable! Well at the end of the day once the reviews are out Lucasfilm is going to come in for some VERY bad press I think, and rightly so.

I'm going to hire this out to check it out myself, but I've had it with giving Lucas any more of my hard-earned.
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GREAT post here with picture quality comparisons between the different releases. Shows the horrible smearing effects of the digital "noise reduction" filters used on the 1993/1995 LD versions: http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=6948

Interestingly I've always preferred the 1989 LD release, complete with 1985 sound mix. I've recently transferred this version to three DVD-R's (one side per disc to max out quality from a Pioneer CLD-2950 to Panasonic stand-alone DVD recorder) and transferred the 16-bit soundtrack directly onto my PC, to preserve it in all it's non-remastered glory! There may be more dust and nics in this print, but there's absolutely NO mucking about with the picture digitally and for sharpness it far surpasses the 1993/95 versions. In fact it's more or less how I remember seeing it in the theatre originally. This is my 'reference' version, and I'd LOVE to see someone do a transfer from an XO laserdisc player for this... any takers? I'd be willing to give up my LDs for this...

Perhaps someone could work on this version? I'd do it myself if my PC was powerful enough and I had the software.

- John
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How can a 13 year old transfer with de-interlacing artifacts and losuey digital noise-reduction muck on the screen possibly be considered an awsome transfer


It can't. But we are meant to think it can.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: yanksno1
OK, WTF is going on here?

Oh... one other thing this morning. You know how we were complaining a few months back that the original versions of the Star Wars films (due on 9/12) were going to look less than stellar in 15-year old, non-anamorphic, laserdisc-transfer quality video on DVD? A few thousand fans finally got a look at them at the Lucasfilm presentation at Comic-Con on Friday afternoon. Lucasfilm's Steve Sansweet had this to say to the assemblage: "The transfers from the bonus discs are absolutely incredible, because these are pristine master tapes, and I have NEVER seen - despite what you may have heard on Internet rumors - a better transfer of a movie."


I'm still not getting my hopes up, but taking a wait and see approach. I just a straight answer at this point. Jeez.


[SARCASM]I feel so much better. A Lucasfilm employee has reassured us that the transfer is the best ever. [/SARCASM]