¤ THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK ¤ The "OPTIMUM EDITION" Score Reconstruction, Remixing & Restoration Version 3 (Released) — Page 9

If I may say what I personaly think about that I'd mention the fact that rendering such a detailed orchestral score needs artistry or sensibility more than technical skills. The engineers who worked on this score at first where both I think.

I have to admit I'd love to have the whole set at accurate pitch as sometimes I still feel there's a difference between a cue and another. But this difference is not so bothering... It's only a "particularity" that's hardly or even not noticeable. I'd add that the OE has reached a quality yet above my own expectations and I won't feel any regret to leave it as it is now.

___

Here's the untouched Finale from the LP for Mangobyebye: Finale LP

New samples (Optimum version 4):

"The Wampa's Lair" SE + RSO LP multi-parts layer + Antho fade out, remixed, final. (same as posted 2 pages before)

"The Rebels Escape" Anthology + RSO LP missing bit, multi-layered EQ's (self), frequencies shifting correction + RSO LP layer (light), final mix.

"Jedi Master Revealed / Mynock Cave" Part 1 SE layered with RSO LP (medium freqs) / Part 2: SE begining, RSO CD completed and restored with SE, entirelely remixed before editing as always, final.

+ Just updated the remixing and editing details (for CD1 only for now). You' ll see in bold what's new.

msycamore said:

I'm sure there is some pitch issues between the Albums but you can never compare the RSO finale with the film and expect it to match (except if you have the 70mm film version to look at) because it's another film version. The one that should match is oddly attached to "Ewok Celebration" on the 4th disc of the Anthology and that one is the 35mm film version of "finale" we all have on our precious "GOUT";)

 QUESTION (and please do like if I ddn't know anything about SW, Video matters and preservation etc... And you'll get what's in my mind).

What is the difference between the 70 and the 35 mm Rebel Fleet/Finale... Aren't they the same takes that are used ?...

I ask this because I just recorded the Finale from the film (the 1980 version), and I'm sure an accurate equalization on this - if needed - can make a good alternate. (But I don't see the interest if it's only for an Alt bit that I already managed anyway). However I'm so untutored that I don't know if audio recorded from a DVD equals 44100kh/16bit.

Anyway, please explain. 

I've always thought they were different takes, now I'm not sure anymore (I must compare them). Have not seen the 70mm version myself but this is what Michael Matessino (editing and assembly supervisor on the Special Edition CD's) wrote about the track in Film Score Monthly Vol. 2, No.1 January/February 1997:

Track 12, The Rebel Fleet/End Title: In 70mm versions of the film, the final scene began with this cue. Preperations of these prints began before the film was "locked," so the 35mm version contains several differences. The most prominent is the inclusion of extra dialogue and a few additional effect shots to the closing scene. The re-edited sequence required the tracking of a section of "Yoda and the Force" to precede "The Rebel Fleet." For both prints, a few bars of "The Rebel Fleet" were eliminated. This track was called "Finale" on the original album and the Gerhardt recording and "Finale/End Credits" on the anthology set.

According to this article, Michael Matessino saw both versions around 70 times (once for each millimeter) in 1980. Here he describes the closing scene from the 70mm version in the same issue:

In the final scene, there is no tracked music from "Yoda and the Force." The scene begins with the first establishing shot of the rebel fleet, then cuts inside the Falcon for Lando to say "Luke, we're ready for take-off" (but a different take of this is used). After Luke says (voice over), "Good luck, Lando," scene cuts to inside the Rebel cruiser where Luke says "I'll meet you at the rendezvous," etc. Not in this version are two more establishing shots of the fleet and an interim effects shot over wich Lando says, "When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter we'll contact you."

msycamore said:

I've always thought they were different takes, now I'm not sure anymore (I must compare them).

 You may find out that the Alt March is a bit over satured (as on my edit), that is not the case of the Yoda's theme just before. For me it is obviously an insert, not mentioning the many cuts hardly hearable before it goes back to the love theme. The last note is an awful cut too, wich doesn't prove or mean the album version is a one stroke take, I think it's just better edited.

You'll also find out an awful cut between the two Yoda's theme parts that is not on the album version (or perhaps on the SE). Anyway, there are cuts everywhere, some that you can guess with my remixing details, and some that are a little different on the film version. The End Title beginning (explosion) though has not suffered of over-saturation has the cue I choosed to work with has. It doesn't mean it is a different take however as I guess the soundtrack album has been prepared by some people (I believe John Williams for the editing as I think I rode somewhere), and the score cut for the film by an other team.

Anyway, both versions has been a bit roughly edited. Fortunately the RSO album one offered enough space to re-edit it the best way. So I consider you have THE version one must have on the OE.

... Thanks for the reply ;)

ABC said:

 You may find out that the Alt March is a bit over satured (as on my edit), that is not the case of the Yoda's theme just before. For me it is obviously an insert, not mentioning the many cuts hardly hearable before it goes back to the love theme. The last note is an awful cut too, wich doesn't prove or mean the album version is a one stroke take, I think it's just better edited.

You'll also find out an awful cut between the two Yoda's theme parts that is not on the album version (or perhaps on the SE). Anyway, there are cuts everywhere, some that you can guess with my remixing details, and some that are a little different on the film version. The End Title beginning (explosion) though has not suffered of over-saturation has the cue I choosed to work with has. It doesn't mean it is a different take however as I guess the soundtrack album has been prepared by some people (I believe John Williams for the editing as I think I rode somewhere), and the score cut for the film by an other team.

Anyway, both versions has been a bit roughly edited. Fortunately the RSO album one offered enough space to re-edit it the best way. So I consider you have THE version one must have on the OE.

... Thanks for the reply ;)

Maybe you're right, I have not listened to your latest edits yet, I sure will. However, I have never said or believed the album version of "End Title" is a one stroke take (I know about the many edits in it) I just said the Imperial march section has been tracked from the concert suite on the RSODLP/CD. Well, "The Rebel Fleet" (aka Finale, sourced from the edited film mix) on disc 2 on the anthology sounds so different from the beginning of the track to the album version with its clear strings coupled with the info I posted earlier that I thought it was another recording and I'm still not entirely sure about it, (maybe because of the different quality in the mix). I remember reading somewhere that the album version is now heard in the SE film in a somewhat edited form, can someone confirm this?

The Rebel Fleet/End Title can be a confusing one;)

A strange thing is that the bit they removed from the "rebel Feet" part  for the film sounded a bit too loud on the RSO (not anymore) what may mean they took it off first, and reedited it after, unless they replaced it with another take. (Same thing on the SE besides).

The Rebel Fleet/End Title can be a confusing one;)

From my point of view there's no alternate Rebel Fleet. There's the complete one and the incomplete (film and Anthology). For the End Tiltle there's the album version as Williams choosed to present with the tracked "march" bit but with an alternate beginning on a few seconds, and the film version (SE) wich was the more complete before an innocent guy who wanted to hear the ESB score with a descent sound replaced the short cuts from both film and SE, reediting the RSO in both versions ;) . No matter the tracked "Yoda and the Force" bit, though I love this add.

The only confusion comes from speaking and the launch of words like "alternate". Now for anyone who read us there should be no more.

(EDIT) Erratum: The Anthology End Title March is made of the Alt beginning from the album + the film version March...

I have never said or believed the album version of "End Title" is a one stroke take (I know about the many edits in it)

Of course you know, I only pointed out that the edit (the cuts) are different from the film version to the album while the takes don't make any differences and are the very same with just a slight difference in the mixing (or just the volume). I find that funny.

I insist on that as they have the really same particularities in the sound, independently of the different album mixes.

The main notable differences though come from some RSO sections that have been recorded too strong, and somehow quite well restored on the following versions. From this point of view I choosed the worst one to work with... But it has the dynamic these parts needed. These corrupted parts were mostly:

(The Rebel Fleet)
· 1'47” - 1'57” | 

(Finale)
· 1'57” - 2'06” |

· 3'42” - 3'51” | Imperial March Alt beginning (album version only)
· 3'51” - 4'28” | March main theme (retracked on the OE from the "Imperial march")

· 4'28” - 4'37” |  March end, same on both versions (replaced with the "Film Version" bonus track from the Anthology bit on the OE).

· 4'37” - 5'47” |

What hasn't been replaced has been dealed through EQ's.

I know it doesn't answer to your last question, just I wanted to bring some more light on how I reconstructed the original (here the album version) exactly as it had to be what you may verify on every versions. The film version is only a replacement of the two bits in bold. 

 You know, I'm not a specialist of this score and I don't mean to be. I only made the work that was obvious to me had to be done. I'm about to forget this entirely... I leave the final word to the specialists ! ;)

(EDIT):

Well, "The Rebel Fleet" (aka Finale, sourced from the edited film mix) on disc 2 on the anthology sounds so different from the beginning of the track to the album version with its clear strings coupled with the info I posted earlier that I thought it was another recording and I'm still not entirely sure about it, (maybe because of the different quality in the mix).

Good point though. I had a doubt and just checked it. The strings are indeed left a little behind on the RSO version. I also noticed a hardly hearable cut at average 34 sec or so... We learn every day !

Also noticed I could have grabed those first notes from the harp at the beginning ;).

what exactly is RSO?

If you remove these stinky big pictures from your signature when posting there

... Then perhaps.

Robert Stigwood Organization (record label) ?

You must have missed this forum announcement from last year...

Your last sig image (the True Blood one) was fine; also, mods cannot alter user profiles, only Jay can do that.

Thanks for resizing it.

dark_jedi said:

stinky picture?

 Shit always stinks... Yes I mean this image is shit. Anyway...

Just my way to reply to your first post: You do (reasonably) whatever you want, I do the same, as far as I don't threaten forum members liberty. I can't see why the long title bothers you, and if you don't understand it allows me to keep you aware of the actual state of my work thus you don't have to seek in a hundred of posts, then never mind.

But yes, I can make it shorter. I can even erase the title, erase my posts, what will save our time to us all, notably to me. I think I've done enough and I'm glad have been able to read some people here (wich number doesn't surpass the number of my fingers) enjoying this work.

So please don't piss me off with your useless posts and let's go back on topic...

dark_jedi said:

also,have I ever said anything you did was shit,I don't think so.

 You should... If you think so. That would make a useful post. If I quoted together the more useful post and PM's I received you may be surprised.

Now please read again the reason for edit on my last post. And yes your post about the title topic pissed me off a little bit, and yes I always disliked your signatures :). But that last point really doesn't matter, so please let go.

I regret even helping you now

Ah, the EAC program, you're right ! Thank for the people downloading my work. Everyone should thank Dark Jedi for that ! I don't spend my life sharing restoration works on the net and I only spent some giving it attention for you.

Upset by your signatures ?... Well my English really sucks then.

You won, you have the last word !

Can we go back on topic, please ?

ABC said:

msycamore said: Well, "The Rebel Fleet" (aka Finale, sourced from the edited film mix) on disc 2 on the anthology sounds so different from the beginning of the track to the album version with its clear strings coupled with the info I posted earlier that I thought it was another recording and I'm still not entirely sure about it, (maybe because of the different quality in the mix).

Good point though. I had a doubt and just checked it. The strings are indeed left a little behind on the RSO version. I also noticed a hardly hearable cut at average 34 sec or so... We learn every day !

Also noticed I could have grabed those first notes from the harp at the beginning ;).

 May I suggest you compare every three versions of another cue (SE/Antho/RSO): "Han and The Princess". The mix is so different on each that not only they look like different takes, but even the instruments sound as if they were different ones. The ten first seconds will be enough.

ABC, I really love the work you are doing. They just get better each time you edit them. Every time I edit music, the highs are way too high.

msycamore said: The Rebel Fleet/End Title can be a confusing one;)

ABC said:

From my point of view there's no alternate Rebel Fleet. There's the complete one and the incomplete (film and Anthology). For the End Tiltle there's the album version as Williams choosed to present with the tracked "march" bit but with an alternate beginning on a few seconds, and the film version (SE) wich was the more complete before an innocent guy who wanted to hear the ESB score with a descent sound replaced the short cuts from both film and SE, reediting the RSO in both versions ;) . No matter the tracked "Yoda and the Force" bit, though I love this add.

The only confusion comes from speaking and the launch of words like "alternate". Now for anyone who read us there should be no more.

My comment above was a self-parody of the same comment I'd made earlier in this thread, the only thing confusing here is me;). Now I finally agree with you about "The Rebel Fleet," the bad quality in the mix and the problems with the volume in that one is what probably made me think it was a different take, thank you! you have at last solved this mystery for me;) That's what happens when you read about it and don't listen to it for yourself. Your new sample of it sounds sooo goood!