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Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series — Page 10

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Anchorhead said:

All,

Let me clear up something before we waste any more time on this tangent. I’m not knocking Han in-universe or as written. It’s very likely that Han was my hero before most of you were born. I don’t need him explained to me. My point, and I stand by it, is that he’s nowhere near as dangerous a person as Cassian, nor is he ever in as much danger. When we meet him, he’s in trouble with one gangster because a single deal went sideways. If he were in any real trouble, he wouldn’t be hanging out in a bar down the road from the guy to whom he owes money.

As someone said earlier, he’s more of a happy-go-lucky type of guy. He’s selfish (as Leia points out), and has no apparent passion or higher cause. As presented, he comes across as a legitimate charter who sometimes takes side gigs smuggling. He’s shown to be that in EU novels also. Everyone we see him kill is in self defense. Cassian practically lives a witness protection lifestyle no matter which planet he’s on. We see him kill people in cold blood, not necessarily in self defense because he never waits that long.

They both make money illegally, they’re both interesting to watch, and both are sort of anti-heroes, but they are not the same types of people.

Originally I was taking umbrage with what you said before:
“Diego Luna is amazing. He’s what a real-world Han Solo would have to be to survive in that lifestyle. Cassian isn’t a western movie caricature like Han. He’s much deeper. The whole show is much deeper.”

So you did compare Han pretty unfavorably and call him an unrealistic caricature, and say that Cassian is a more realistic version of the same character. That’s why I brought up examples.

I still don’t think you’re presenting it accurately but I don’t want to waste time arguing.

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yotsuya said:

I like how some are implying that the original movie was more adult. It wasn’t. Lucas’s target audience was always about 11 for the movies. I feel the target audience for this one is more like 20. I grew up in the 70’s and many of the things in Star Wars are reflected in the movies and TV shows of that time. Evening TV had to be family rated, even the adult shows. That is the feeling of Star Wars. It is something that Lucas and Disney have always aligned on. Firmly Friendly entertainment that has something for the younger viewers and layers that only adults will get.

Today is a much different world and Andor is probably the first Star Wars series intended for an older audience. I’d say that The Mandalorian was a little more adult, but mostly Star Wars had just had hints of this world, even while dealing with a rebellion. I mean, how many millions died on the two Death Stars? Was that ever mentioned. No. Only that Darth Vader and the Emperor were ruthless in their control and rule of the galaxy. Vader was the face of evil, but on the grand scale of things, Darth Vader wasn’t seen to do much that was evil. His stormtroopers frying Owen and Beru is probably the worst thing in the original trilogy, but he didn’t do that himself.

It’s not only for kids. It’s for anyone who likes it. The original trilogy features plenty of violence, amputations, torture, death, destruction, and slavery. It’s an adventure story with a more youthful bent to it, and the toy sales are going to be driven by kids (or they were anyway,) but it was intentionally made to appeal to everyone. It’s a universal story. Even if you follow the logic that the target is 11, by the time ESB and ROTJ come out, those original fans are 16 or 17.

With that said, Andor is going for a different tone. But I don’t think it’s necessarily just “darker” like people are saying.

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I can’t get enough of this dialogue and acting. I could listen to the Imperials banter like that for hours.

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I’m enjoying Andor a lot!

It’s really well directed and I like the small scenes with little or no dialog. Sets and locations are also very enjoyable.
The only minor negatives are generic music, abrupt endings to some episodes (no resolution), and the Kalashnikov prop.

Overall I’d rank it above Kenobi and Boba-Fett, and on pair with Mando. Good stuff!
The tone is more serious than Mando, but it gives me the same sense of adventure and of being in the Star Wars world.

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Vladius said:

With that said, Andor is going for a different tone. But I don’t think it’s necessarily just “darker” like people are saying.

Yeah, agreed there. If I had to describe the tone of Andor in just one word, it would be “real”. Every element of the series seems carefully chosen to make the Star Wars universe seem as grounded and believable as possible: the writing is full of subtle world-building rather than on-the-nose exposition, the set design prioritizes real sets and location filming over CGI backgrounds whenever possible, and even the actors look more ordinary and less “Hollywood-ish”. After the ultra-cheesy space opera of pretty much every installment from TROS onwards, it’s really neat to have a series that shows what it would be like to actually live in the Star Wars universe.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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StarkillerAG said:

Vladius said:

With that said, Andor is going for a different tone. But I don’t think it’s necessarily just “darker” like people are saying.

Yeah, agreed there. If I had to describe the tone of Andor in just one word, it would be “real”. Every element of the series seems carefully chosen to make the Star Wars universe seem as grounded and believable as possible: the writing is full of subtle world-building rather than on-the-nose exposition, the set design prioritizes real sets and location filming over CGI backgrounds whenever possible, and even the actors look more ordinary and less “Hollywood-ish”. After the ultra-cheesy space opera of pretty much every installment from TROS onwards, it’s really neat to have a series that shows what it would be like to actually live in the Star Wars universe.

Very well put.

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I am enjoying seeing how the Imperials and Corporate Sector operate, a more real and engaging view on how they see things. Their obsessive cataloging, reports and administration, the politicking and power struggles. The dismissal of hunches without verifiable facts. And the effect it has on everyday ordinary people.

How the Imperials are being portrayed in Andor makes them a more believable, real and interesting enemy.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

So long 🙌

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MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

What?

The story so far:

  • Kassa was one of a band of children on a world with seemingly no living adults, abandoned after mining failure or something. A spacecraft crashed on the planet, and when scavengers came to raid the crash site, Kassa was adopted and taken of world by a nice lady in the scavenging crew. He was then given the identity of Cassian Andor, but his sister was left behind.
  • Many years later, Cassian (and his mom) were living in a Corporate Sector. He borrows his friend’s boss’s ship to fly to nearby planet in the sector looking for his sister who he heard was working there as a prostitute… but she’s not there anymore. He’s not supposed to be there either, and in the course of escaping he kills two Corporate Security Officers.
  • The boss of the Corporate Security office tasked with investigating the murder is going to be away for a few days while making his annual report to the Empire, and he tells his deputy to just let the case go, they’ll never solve it, it doesn’t matter, better to keep things quiet. The Deputy is idealistic and foolish, and decides to investigate, eventually hunting Cassian down.
  • Meanwhile, Cassian has a stolen Imperial surveillance part worth a lot of money, and he’d like to sell it through a friend who has connections to the Black Market, specifically to the Rebellion. His friend makes the call, and Luthen comes to Cassian’s planet to make the purchase.
  • Everything goes horribly wrong when the Corporate Security team sent to find and arrest Cassian arrives at the same time that Luthen is meeting Cassian to purchase the Imperial surveillance part. There is a lot of shooting and, thanks to some help from the disgruntled and rebellious populace of the city, Luthen & Cassian make their escape in Luthen’s ship. But they leave the Imperial surveillance part behind.
  • A young woman rising through the ranks of the ISB takes interest in the case, because she is suspicious that all the various missing parts and other incidents across the galaxy are actually part of a coordinated Rebellion. She is passionate about her career and protecting the Empire.
  • The Empire takes control of the Corporate Sector in response to how badly things went with Cassian’s attempted arrest and its apparent connection to something more sinister. They fire the Deputy, who returns home to Coruscant where his overbearing mother tries to find him a new job. The Deputy wants revenge on Cassian for ruining his life.
  • Luthen recruits Cassian to join a Rebellion covert job in which a few people, posing as shepherds, will steal a large amount of money from the payroll of an Imperial base. Cassian is hired as a mercenary and joins only a few days before the heist, while the rest of the team have been putting months or even years into this job, and are all there due to passionate commitment to the cause of the Rebellion. Cassian is an outsider, and this causes problems within the group as they make their final preparations for the heist.
  • Luthen returns to Coruscant, where he is an art & antiques dealer. He uses this cover to meet with Senator Mon Mothma, whose home life is not great, at least partly because her husband has very different values than hers. Both Luthen and Mon Mothma are worried about the heist.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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Wait, I have more to say

Through these characters and their story, they have so far shown us

  • The difficulties & stresses of living a double life
  • The perspective of Corporate Security & ISB who, in their own ways, just want to do their jobs
  • The difference between Cassian & the other early Rebels, and the first steps in his conversion

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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Yeah, this show has been fantastic so far. Political intrigue. Spy thriller. Seeing the nuts and bolts that make a galactic empire function. And the cast is phenomenal. Mon Mothma in particular really stands out as she navigates the treacherous world of fighting the machine from inside while dealing with her loveless home life. But the acting overall has been top notch.

This show is more BBC high drama and less Saturday matinee action serial. Both are great fun and have their place, but it’s refreshing to get such an intelligent show from the Star Wars universe.

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MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

We are watching two different shows it seems. 🤔

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Might be simply anti-disney bias that prevents the perception of everything good or great about the show for some people 😉

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Darth Caliban said:

Might be simply anti-disney bias that prevents the perception of everything good or great about the show for some people 😉

No doubt.

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Gotta heavily disagree about Diego Luna being “uninteresting”. That man acts his ass off every episode. He more than deserved being the star of this amazing show.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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timdiggerm said:

  • The perspective of Corporate Security & ISB who, in their own ways, just want to do their jobs

I mean…

So long 🙌

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Fan_edit_fan said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

We are watching two different shows it seems. 🤔

Not really: I just don’t find anything great about it, while you seem to enjoy a lot public servants reading files and people hiking in the highlands.

So long 🙌

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MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

Michael Clayton is a great movie!

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MalaStrana#2 said:

timdiggerm said:

  • The perspective of Corporate Security & ISB who, in their own ways, just want to do their jobs

I mean…

That’s the point! Or at least one of them. You can be evil and do bad things not look or feel like you are.

MalaStrana#2 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

We are watching two different shows it seems. 🤔

Not really: I just don’t find anything great about it, while you seem to enjoy a lot public servants reading files and people hiking in the highlands.

How about the latest episode?

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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 (Edited)

MalaStrana#2 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Still following it: I get what this series is trying to do, I see the efforts, just too bad it’s soooooooooo slow with no emotion (and a bit of a very lackluster casting, especially Diego Luna, totally uninteresting). I thought it was going full “Bourne” but it’s now closer to “Michael Clayton”… which is kinda off topic. It seems the series will only be 24 episodes spanned over 2 seasons: they better hurry to start telling a story (and not just close ups of sad people’s faces), there isn’t much time left already.

We are watching two different shows it seems. 🤔

Not really: I just don’t find anything great about it, while you seem to enjoy a lot public servants reading files and people hiking in the highlands.

That’s Gilroy’s go-to magic trick though, isn’t it? Externally, it’s “public servants reading files” - perhaps a dry, soulless environment or a bleak state of affairs - but philosophically, it’s about everything. It has hope, it has meaning. It’s emotional in its repression thereof. It’s in a way, very Star Wars.

You brought up Michael Clayton. Big law firm representing a corrupt company is “boring” on paper, but it’s entirely compelling in practice. Sharp dialogue and excellent performances carry us through scenes of tense bargaining and self reflection; very writerly, very classy. Conversations become the action setpieces, where real violence is rare and morally disappointing. But the important bit is that Michael isn’t just contending with UNorth as a corporate villain, the movie is really a struggle for his soul. The plot elements may be sociopolitical, but philosophically it’s universal and human. It’s about redemption, about conscience. Tension releases when the right thing is done. The Bourne movies as well. Political thriller, but about love, identity (obviously), purpose.

The through-line of Andor is multi-dimensional in the same ways.

Dedra and Syril represent the banality of evil. Overachievers at their jobs; they’re not trying to oppress the galaxy - they just want that promotion, or even to do the Right Thing when a corrupt system won’t. Syril’s pitiable life informs his feelings of powerlessness. Dedra’s aspirations are seemingly blocked by unfair prejudices. They’re looking for meaning and purpose in their lives, and it’s damn near innocuous - but it affects so many under the boot of the institutions they work for. Syril exacerbates already strained community-cop relations on Ferrix by over-exercising power he’s always lacked [that cops maybe shouldn’t have]. Dedra is pushing the Empire to go even further than that in the name of her career.

It takes the mythological pop culture villain of the Empire and adds shades of capitalism and everyday bureaucracy. Underdogs as inherently sympathetic, placed in a familiar [almost American/British-coded] systems… but now, closely related to and prototypical of the Space Nazis we knew. That allegory is cutting and radical criticism of our Establishment in many ways. It’s Andor’s appeal as socio-politically conscious, but it interplays with the universal themes of disenfranchisement and life-meaning for many of the characters caught in its web.

Cassian needs meaning, but doesn’t know what he believes ideologically - he just knows what he’s against. Many of the Aldhani crew come with their own baggage but offer him a more articulate manifesto and direction for his pent-up anger. The narrative is so wholly about revolution, but more importantly all the different fires that spark individually from circumstance. Rebellion as instinctual and universal. Syril and Dedra are rebels too, in their own way.

“I’ve been saying all along we need a stronger hand with these affiliated planets. There’s fomenting out there, sir. Pockets of fomenting. Corporate Tactical Forces are the Empire’s first line of defense, and the best way to keep the blade sharp is to use it.” - Linus Mosk

“It’s so confusing, isn’t it? So much going wrong, so much to say, and all of it happening so quickly. The pace of oppression outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the Imperial thought machine. It’s easier to hide behind 40 atrocities than a single incident. But they have a fight on their hands, don’t they? Our elemental rights are such a simple thing to hold, they will have to shake the galaxy awfully hard to loosen our grip.” -Karis Nemik

The dialogue is consistently this crackling and philosophically concise. It’s not boring - it’s just as theatrical as a good SW film, perhaps in a different flavor. It’s not dry or mundane - this isn’t “realism”, it’s still dramatic. But instead of pulp and flamboyance, there’s wit and precision. Swordplay-like exchanges between detailed characters. To pare it down to its external setting and action feels obtuse. What they’re saying - how - matters more than the superficial.

What makes it Star Wars is that this has always been there. Revolution and rebellion, the search for meaning, family, oppression and the lure of power. These are elements of Star Wars interpreted thoughtfully and expanded upon thoroughly. Always under the surface of the genre-pastiche, but shaded in its ethos nonetheless. At the forefront in Andor.

What does it mean to rebel against an Establishment? How does that Establishment keep its power? From Lucas saying the rebels were Viet Cong to “Nute Gunray” being a Newt Gingrich/Ronald Reagan mash-up, Andor is taking Star Wars’ politics seriously for once. And it’s filling out its world with real and complex emotions, not just the broad big ones. Maybe it’s 40 min too long for you, but the material when you can engage with all of it has conviction.

“Nothing” happens, but I’d argue everything does. This has more weight than fantasy adventures about things that aren’t real.

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Agreed, that blew me away. Well said.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”