Frankly my only issue with this scene is not the change itself (which I find perfectly logical, from a narrative point of view), but the making.
Lucas could have shot new takes with Hayden instead of using old takes and replacing Shaw's head only.
All the critics and complaints are pointless, when Anakin dies he gets back to the light side of the force, and guess which look he had last time he was a true jedi...
It has been said probably a hundred times here, but I'll say it again. The last time Anakin was a true Jedi was, when he threw Palps down the shaft. Using Hayden's face in the final scene invalidates his redemption. Also, Luke has no idea what he was looking like when he was young, it makes no sense at all to replace Shaw.
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And I replied a hundred times with a simple explanation:
the Force CANNOT guess how a 43 year old Anakin would have looked without burns and wounds.
And yes, Anakin redeemed himself, but by that time he was a corrupted man who got back on the good path before dying. So his spirit shows the look he actually had when he was a pure Jedi.
And c'mon... do you seriously Luke wouldn't feel his father? Even with a younger look?
The Force is basically MAGIC, not some sci-fi microbes. It CAN guess what he would look like. Anakin was already corrupted in ROTS, even in AOTC he wasn't a "pure Jedi". For me, killing the sand people out of hate was the turning point.
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slask said:
And I replied a hundred times with a simple explanation:
the Force CANNOT guess how a 43 year old Anakin would have looked without burns and wounds.
Why? Who says? How come? What's stopping it?
His head was hardly even burned!
Or, why couldn't he still have his scars? Obi-Wan and Yoda still have the effects of old age, why does Anakin have to show up looking perfect when he's the only one of the three to have to be redeemed from his horrible deeds?
This is classic GL apologist BS.
Frank your Majesty said:
The Force is basically MAGIC, not some sci-fi microbes. It CAN guess what he would look like.
It doesn't make any sense. Suspension of disbelieve is not unlimited... you have to put some limitations, and follow a bit of logic; otherwise everything you show on screen, however absurd, is legit.
ray_afraid said: This is classic GL apologist BS.
No, this is classic integralist moaning...
slask said:
Frank your Majesty said:
The Force is basically MAGIC, not some sci-fi microbes. It CAN guess what he would look like.
It doesn't make any sense. Suspension of disbelieve is not unlimited... you have to put some limitations, and follow a bit of logic; otherwise everything you show on screen, however absurd, is legit.
It's logical to make Anakin appear in a form that is familiar to Luke, as we only see the force ghosts through Luke's eyes. It doesn't make sense to show him the way he looked when he was already halfway down the path to the dark side.
If Jedi would have been filmed after the prequels, I wouldn't even bother arguing, but the fact that Lucas thought it was necessary to make this change is what upsets me. The ending works perfectly without Hayden's face, so why did it have to be changed?
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The ending works without the change as well, but in ROTS first half I don't see Anakin "halfway down the path to the d.s.".. so imho it works both ways, but with a slighly preference for the 2004 version as a better link between the movies.
Ha, yes, you have to be such an "integralist" to think it's goofy to paste a guy from 2005 into an 80s movie.
If it corrects a continuity mistake, yes.
I sorta consider the prequels themselves to be three huge continuity mistakes. I would have thought it would make more sense to adjust the prequels to the original films and not the other way around.
So let's say that Warner Bros., this year, produced a really lame prequel to Casablanca - one that starred Justin Bieber as the young Rick Blaine, and Natalie Portman as the young Ilsa Lund. They have a lot of memorable dialog about how Rick doesn't like all the sand in Morocco, and there's some kewl-fx war scenes. The movie totally sucks.
It also has a continuity error with the original, wherein Victor Laszlo isn't Czech, he's a young Nigerian played by Jim Iyke. Should it follow that the studio should go back and change the original 1942 Casablanca by CGI-ing an older Nigerian's face over Paul Henried's to align with the new film, in order to correct the continuity error?
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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
So let's say that Warner Bros., this year, produced a really lame prequel to Casablanca - one that starred Justin Bieber as the young Rick Blaine, and Natalie Portman as the young Ilsa Lund. They have a lot of memorable dialog about how Rick doesn't like all the sand in Morocco, and there's some kewl-fx war scenes. The movie totally sucks.
Whoa whoa whoa, not so fast! I'm liking what I hear so far! Go on!
--PT Fan
slask said:
And yes, Anakin redeemed himself, but by that time he was a corrupted man who got back on the good path before dying. So his spirit shows the look he actually had when he was a pure Jedi.
Why didn't they just bring Jake Lloyd in then. As in TPM Anakin was actually the last time a good person and what you call a "pure Jedi". In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin was basically an annoying, arrogant, jealous, self-centred, unlikeable jerk, who on top of that was constantly consciously breaking Jedi rules (e.g. Padme romance, etc.). A complete opposite of a good person or "pure Jedi".
真実
imperialscum said: Why didn't they just bring Jake Lloyd in then. As in TPM Anakin was actually the last time a good person and what you call a "pure Jedi". In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin was basically an annoying, arrogant, jealous, self-centred, unlikeable jerk, who on top of that was constantly consciously breaking Jedi rules (e.g. Padme romance, etc.). A complete opposite of a good person or "pure Jedi".
Everything Anakin does in the first half of SW III makes him a good Jedi.
Including killing Count Dooku.
*Booing*
Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…
If you want to ignore context then let's end the discussion....
slask said:
imperialscum said: Why didn't they just bring Jake Lloyd in then. As in TPM Anakin was actually the last time a good person and what you call a "pure Jedi". In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin was basically an annoying, arrogant, jealous, self-centred, unlikeable jerk, who on top of that was constantly consciously breaking Jedi rules (e.g. Padme romance, etc.). A complete opposite of a good person or "pure Jedi".
Everything Anakin does in the first half of SW III makes him a good Jedi.
An alcoholic who is sober once in a while is still an alcoholic.
真実
Alright, there's no room for a debate. You clearly just want to hear only what you want, you could specify before.
I'm not wasting time anymore trying to explain what's supposed to be crystal clear, you all have eyes.
Sadly the Hayden version of Anakin Skywalker, comes off as creepy rather than loving even in his scenes with Padme. A better writer and director and a better actor might have drawn upon some genuine emotions in some of those scenes in episode III.
Even Anakin's fall at the end is over the top and unbelievable.
He is never shown to be a good friend or the best star pilot in the galaxy, so now Obi Wan was just a huge liar.
All we know about him is he must be the chosen one because the script says so and midichlorians.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
I actually like the change, but I do have two gripes with it:
1. They could've used a better shot of Hayden. The whole looking down at shoes thing was a bit strange
2. For consistency sake, maybe put Ewan in as well. Or on a second thought if its the whole ghost manifesting as the spirit's prime-of-life thing I guess it wouldn't make sense to put Ewan in since Obi-Wan never turned dark.
I saw the version with Shaw first and foremost but it always took me out of the scene that this baby boomer looking guy was the guy behind the Vader mask.
All in all it was necessary IMO to give better linkage with the PT.
Radar Rider said:
I actually like the change, but I do have two gripes with it:
1. They could've used a better shot of Hayden. The whole looking down at shoes thing was a bit strange
2. For consistency sake, maybe put Ewan in as well. Or on a second thought if its the whole ghost manifesting as the spirit's prime-of-life thing I guess it wouldn't make sense to put Ewan in since Obi-Wan never turned dark.
I saw the version with Shaw first and foremost but it always took me out of the scene that this baby boomer looking guy was the guy behind the Vader mask.
All in all it was necessary IMO to give better linkage with the PT.
My reaction to this post in general, my reaction to the last sentence in particular:
Radar Rider said:
All in all it was necessary IMO to give better linkage with the PT.
Welcome to the forum. Do you think that the original movies should also be preserved?
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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Radar Rider said:
All in all it was necessary IMO to give better linkage with the PT.
Welcome to the forum. Do you think that the original movies should also be preserved?
Sure, like the Brazil Bluray set that has all the different versions.
The right to choose imho must be preserved.
We were talking about Blade Runner before, which is a fine example: I love the final cut, and to me is the best version of the movie, but I wanted the chance to watch the original cut whenever I want.
It's the same with Star Wars, movies I love so much I'd watch all the different versions.