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What movies do you consider canon?

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We all have personal preferances. There is George-Canon, and then there is Fanon.

Something I have realized over these past few months, is that people also have personal favoritism (of course,) when it comes to canon. This may be considered a form of Kryptorevisionism... of which I won't go into detail because I think everyone gets the point.

What Star Wars films do YOU consider canon?


As for me:

"Star Wars" & "The Empire Strikes Back"


To me, anything coming after those movies (not chronologically; I mean anything made after that,) is simply Expanded Universe, and I dismiss it on an overall basis. Truly and honestly, I don't take episodes 6, 1, 2, or 3 very seriously at all.
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In terms of the movies, the O-OT is canon. Some elements of the SE are kind of canon on the basis of their long history in the Star Wars tradition, e.g. Biggs and Jabba. Others, emphatically, are not. Oh, and the Holiday Special is canon. Chief Bast lives!

When I do think of the Prequels, I entertain certain ... unorthodox thoughts about them. Interpretations that some consider unnatural. And I have seen SW fanboys get enraged when I share these thoughts, even those that don't contradict filmic canon and are supported by EU "official LFL" canon. Go figure.

I am, of course, conversant with the multiple levels of canon used in the Holocron database and have no problem discussing Star Wars in terms of the aggregate mythology therein; I even like a great deal of the EU and consider part of my personal canon. But that's another thread, I guess.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
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The first three- SW, ESB and ROTJ. They're the only three, as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, I don't even think of the PT as Star Wars movies.

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To me, the PT is canon - it's the part of the family you'd prefer not to discuss with strangers.

My view is that the events of the PT were canonical, just horribly depicted. It's like Star Wars meets Public Access.

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The O-OT: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.

As for the PT, there are parts of all 3 movies that are great, but the problem is there are parts of all 3 movies that are just plain awful, and really make them all average movies. The PT characters just don't do it for me, as I could care less for Padme & Anakin, and they are the stars of that trilogy. I tried many times for the past year to be a 1-6 SW fan, as I really tried to embrace the PT movies, but the replay value is not the same as the OT movies. There are just too many many problems when watching the PT: Plot Inconsistencies, bad acting, unlovable characters, zero chemistry, etc.

Even though I was there for every PT movie opening weekend, they have not stood the test of time, and that is pretty sad since TPM is only 7 years old. I look at them as EU stuff, something that is interesting to know, but not needed to fullfill the real story of 4-6.

The O-OT story is lean and just one micro story that happens in this huge universe, and that is it's biggest strength. To me is just like reading about World War II and the heroes who saved the world, and yes there is more history before and after, but just like SW, this story is great and can stand on its own.
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this is canon for me:

A New Hope (Original version)
Empire Strikes back: (2004 version)
Return of the Jedi (Original version)
also, the N64 Shadows of the empire game is also canon.



as for the prequels, two things are dropped:

Medichlorines
Padme dying

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I also think the 2004 version of ESB is the best of them all. Aside from the Emperors dialogue change, the DVD looks fantastic in general and the CGI shit works well enough. Don't get me wrong, I still love the OT version just as much tho. I can watch either and not really complain about missing or added things really.

As for canon....the OT only. The PT just got too many things wrong over the things it did right and it simply has too many things that don't fit the SW universe. The PT, as stated before and 10,000 before that, will not stand the test of time. The only PT movie I watch more than others is TPM but only because I have fond memories of it, the pod race is hella cool, Darth Maul is awesome despite him being totally unnecassary, and the CGI simply looks more integrated on film. AOTC is just so poorly edited, the CG blows mules, and the story just can't hold my interest. ROTS has the sorry ass "turn" scene (a pivitol moment in the saga just raped of all emotion an integrity), the NOOO, Padme dying, Grievous (tho bad ass....not needed...as everyone knows again).... the list goes on til the apocalypse happens.

So basically....I'll watch the PT but I only enjoy it well making fun of Christiansen, the CG, and the shitty dialogue and acting. I watch the OT over and over because I always notice something new (don't care enough to try it on the PT) and I can get into it because it's just that much more real.

BTW, I like Shadows of the Empire in all it's forms (book, game, score) and seeing as how it's the biggest EU official canon, I guess i'll put that down.

PS....i so sincerely wish they'd left Jango and Boba out of the PT as they are shown because I enjoy the "Tales..." and bounty hunter trilogy account of him soooo much more. I always think of them before the PT versions when I see him in the OT.

EDIT: I missed the part where it said movies....my bad.....my opinion still stands tho.

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The O-OT. I just wish it didn't have to end with ROTJ.

There are elements of EU and the PT that I consider to be canon, like Coruscant being the capital for instance, and Anakin and Obi-wan fighting above a pit of lava - little things like that.
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Original unaltered Trilogy only for me.

I gave up trying to relate the PT to the OT years ago after we were all 'blessed' with the wonderful Phantom Menace.

Just impossible to even pretend the two trilogies are part of the same universe.

The personalities of supposedly the same characters, never mind the visuals, fundamentally DO NOT fit!

The names are the same, but perhaps should have been changed to protect the innocent!
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What is "canon" exactly?
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Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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It's a referrence to the church and how it recognized certain books of the bible as the word of God and rejected certain others. It's that which is genuine.

For me, in terms of Star Wars, the original film gets the most respect, followed by Empire and most of Jedi as well. Then, in the PT, I vaguely accept a few measely plot points in a way where I try to ignore the rest.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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For me, Star Wars is the only thing that's canon.

If so much of the story hadn't been subsequently changed, I could consider the other two films of the O.T. as "canon" ... but Darth Vader being Luke's father, Princess Leia his sister are drastic revisions that are at odds with what's presented in the first movie.


I think of the Star Wars universe as having many concentric layers of EU, kind of like nested Russian dolls. Episodes 5 & 6 are one layer of expanded universe, not entirely matching the original. The prequels are a further layer, further removed. Shadows of the Empire yet another outer layer, and the other EU materials - games and novels that I've never even experienced - a still further away layer of expanding information .... but like the game 'telephone,' each new incarnation suffering from a bit of expanded miscommunication.




Star Wars is it. The rest are shadows and reflections - often interesting, sometimes entertaining. But none of it the real thing.


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My personal list below.


ABSOLUTE CANON:

Star Wars, plus these scenes:
- Luke in the desert
- Luke & Biggs at Anchorhead
- Vader & Bast
- Luke & Biggs reunion

The Empire Strikes Back, plus these scenes:
- the whole extended Wampa sub-plot
- General Veers' death
- the extended training on Dagobah
- Luke rescued from the top of the Falcon


SEMI-CANON (meaning, I'd like certain parts to have been done differently):

Star Wars - the Jabba & Han scene with Declan Mulholland (maybe if he was Jabba's henchman instead of Jabba himself)

The Star Wars Holiday Special (with the Bast scene taken out and used in Star Wars instead)

Return Of The Jedi, plus these cut scenes:
- Luke putting his new lightsaber into Artoo
- the sandstorm

Ewoks: Caravan Of Courage
Ewoks: The Battle For Endor

Some of the Marvel comic book stories

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]

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I loved those Ewok movies....but they always seemed more LOTR than SW. That prolly makes so little sense but.....whatever.

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Originally posted by: SKot
My personal list below ...
SEMI-CANON ...
Star Wars - the Jabba & Han scene (maybe if it was Jabba's henchman instead of Jabba himself)

But how would this be any different from the Greedo scene? How is it different whether it's Jabba or a henchalien? The same exact information, with nothing new, as presented by Greedo in the Cantina. Hence why this scene is redundant. Hence why a good director would have left it on the cutting room floor, and not for the reason of effects technology limitations.

(Sorry, this scene is one of my peeviest pet peeves about the revisions to Star Wars. Rightful editing room rejects brought back to life just gets my goat, or starwars duck, or whatever animal makes a mad, growling sound)




This is not meant to derail, or to criticize anyone's personal canon choices.

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
For me, Star Wars is the only thing that's canon.

If so much of the story hadn't been subsequently changed, I could consider the other two films of the O.T. as "canon" ... but Darth Vader being Luke's father, Princess Leia his sister are drastic revisions that are at odds with what's presented in the first movie.


I think of the Star Wars universe as having many concentric layers of EU, kind of like nested Russian dolls. Episodes 5 & 6 are one layer of expanded universe, not entirely matching the original. The prequels are a further layer, further removed. Shadows of the Empire yet another outer layer, and the other EU materials - games and novels that I've never even experienced - a still further away layer of expanding information .... but like the game 'telephone,' each new incarnation suffering from a bit of expanded miscommunication.




Star Wars is it. The rest are shadows and reflections - often interesting, sometimes entertaining. But none of it the real thing.


.



Well put, very eloquent, and IMO 100% bang on.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Originally posted by: SKot
SEMI-CANON ...
Star Wars - the Jabba & Han scene (maybe if it was Jabba's henchman instead of Jabba himself)

But how would this be any different from the Greedo scene? How is it different whether it's Jabba or a henchalien? The same exact information, with nothing new, as presented by Greedo in the Cantina. Hence why this scene is redundant. Hence why a good director would have left it on the cutting room floor, and not for the reason of effects technology limitations.
And that is why I put it in under 'Semi-canon'. It doesn't work as it is: it's redundant, it kills the pacing, it derails some of Jabba's dangerousness, but yet it's very genuinely Star Wars. Maybe this scene could have happened under different circumstances. Maybe Han did run into Jabba at some point in a similar way. But it just doesn't fit rest the story as it happened very well. And so that's why it's not included under the canon section... but I don't want to completely throw it out, because it feels so much like real Star Wars. Unlike most of the PT and SE changes.

Oh, and I definitely mean the version with Declan Mulholland and NO CGI Jabba in there. Post edited accordingly.

(Sorry, this scene is one of my peeviest pet peeves about the revisions to Star Wars. Rightful editing room rejects brought back to life just gets my goat, or starwars duck, or whatever animal makes a mad, growling sound)
Agreed... such things should generally be left as separate extras or deleted scenes. Although there are instances where films are shortened on release so they are more acceptable to a theater audience, but later can have lots of things added back in on an extended DVD release because the core fans can handle a 3-hour-plus movie. I'm thinking Lord of the Rings and Dune here. Dune in particular could easily have been over 4 hours long and still not have any pointless filler.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]

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The original Holy trilogy (although there are aspects of ROTJ that I turn a blind eye to).

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: StarWarsIsUs

What Star Wars films do YOU consider canon?


Ernest Goes to Jail
2001: A Space Oddysey
Planet of the Apes.

That's my Star Wars canon!

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I consider the O-OT as canon. That is Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. The only SE feature I would include is the short scene with Biggs and Luke.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Ernest goes to jail = classic.


Heh, same with Ernest Scared Stupid and Ernest goes to camp. Though Jail might be my favorite.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005