What do you LIKE about the EU? — Page 44

Over the summer I’ll be reading some Star Wars novels.

I finished reading The Old Republic: Deceived and I really enjoyed it. The characters were all very fleshed out and nothing felt out of place. The writing was nearly perfect for me, highly recommended.

I’m currently reading Scoundrels and I’m liking it thus far. I trust Timothy Zahn more than most writers to make a good Star Wars story. I’ll keep you guys posted.

joefavs said:

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight was one of the first bits of EU I was exposed to and thus a huge influence on my ideas about Star Wars as a whole, especially given the fact that I played it within a year or two of seeing the movies for the first time. The atmosphere and tone in that game is still closer for me to what Star Wars is supposed to feel like than almost anything else that’s come out since. The lack of characters and locations from the movies made the galaxy seem much more open, and I think the way that dark Force users were handled here is a big part of why I’m so inclined to groan when I see every single bad guy with a lightsaber referred to as a “Sith” these days. I also think Yun’s yellow lightsaber is why non-movie colors don’t really bother me (the Darksaber from TCW is still the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen, though).

EDIT: What an historically significant post number.

Old post, but you should definitely check out the Dark Forces Radio Drama. It’s excellent.

darklordoftech said:

TheBoost said:

The Merchant said:

What’s wrong with Palpy being a Sith? Just curious, nothing against him not being a Sith.

Any time you take a character, and say “WAIT! There’s a whole class of characters just like them!” it lessens that character.

Greedo comes from a species of all bounty hunters.

Jabba comes from a species of all crime lords.

Palpy comes from a club of evil wizards.

Boba comes from a planet of bad ass whatever he is (retconned at some point).

It makes them boring.

This. This is what Duracell and I have been trying to say. It’s much more awesome when you come up with your ideology and become a badass without anyone else’s help. Furthermore, Palpatine doesn’t seem like the type of person who would identify with anything that he didn’t create.

I do have to agree with this, as much as I enjoy the idea of pre-Karen Traviss Mandalorians.

I know squat about the EU, so what’s “Mandalorians?”

yhwx said:

I know squat about the EU, so what’s “Mandalorians?”

Basically, in either canon, the Mandalorians are the people warrior culture from the planet Mandalore.

To get more in-depth, read below.

Originally, during pre-production for The Empire Strikes Back there was an idea that there would be a group of “supercommandos” from the Mandalore system who wore heavily weaponized white armour. This was eventually whittled down to just one, Boba Fett, and the armour was repainted to the green, yellow, and red we see in the movie. The novelization that came out around then said that Boba Fett wore a suit of “Mandalorian Armour”, and that the Mandalorians were a group of “evil warriors” who were wiped out by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars, without saying that Boba was a Mandalorian himself.

This was later retconned by the original Marvel comics. Boba Fett (later retconned to some random clone) became one of three surviving supercommandos from the world of Mandalore. The Mandalorian supercommandos had been decimated during the Clone Wars after being ordered to capture Princess Leia by Palpatine (later retconned to Padme Amidala).

In that same comic, it is revealed that Mandalore, a lush jungle/forest planet, came under the heel of the Empire after the Clone Wars, and the other two Mandalorian supercommandos, Fenn Shysa and Tobbi Dala, returned to train a group of Mandalorian Protectors to wage guerilla warfare against the Imperial slavers. Princess Leia showed up looking for Dengar and got involved in the Mandalorian rebellion which eventually led to the liberation of Mandalore from the Empire.

Later on, a writer called Karen Traviss would come along and make a lot of retcons (the two mentioned were hers). She successfully turned Boba Fett and the Mandalorians into a group of Mary Sue infallible good-guy warrior badasses and drove the entire concept into the ground while creating a really creepily-dedicated and aggressive fanbase and a full language to use in her books. Luckily she got butthurt about the possibility of her stories being overwritten and quit Star Wars in a huff before going off to write awful Halo books.

The Clone Wars retconned things in a more interesting direction by making the Mandalorians a warrior culture that had fought so many wars that Mandalore had been reduced to a barren wasteland, and the current ruler was an off-worlder and a pacifist who had exiled the planet’s remaining warriors to the moon Concordia. I won’t give any spoilers about the arc because it’s actually quite interesting and I think very good, but suffice to say it’s hard to keep warriors down.

Personally, I preferred the idea that “Mandalorian” was more of a warrior culture that one could ascribe to (which prevailed around the Tales of the Jedi and Knights of The Old Republic eras, and even into the Open Seasons comic), rather than a set people from a set planet. But I also really, really enjoyed the way the Mandalorian arcs played out in The Clone Wars.

Tyrphanax said:

yhwx said:

I know squat about the EU, so what’s “Mandalorians?”

Basically, in either canon, the Mandalorians are the people warrior culture from the planet Mandalore.

To get more in-depth, read below.

Originally, during pre-production for The Empire Strikes Back there was an idea that there would be a group of “supercommandos” from the Mandalore system who wore heavily weaponized white armour. This was eventually whittled down to just one, Boba Fett, and the armour was repainted to the green, yellow, and red we see in the movie. The novelization that came out around then said that Boba Fett wore a suit of “Mandalorian Armour”, and that the Mandalorians were a group of “evil warriors” who were wiped out by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars, without saying that Boba was a Mandalorian himself.

This was later retconned by the original Marvel comics. Boba Fett (later retconned to some random clone) became one of three surviving supercommandos from the world of Mandalore. The Mandalorian supercommandos had been decimated during the Clone Wars after being ordered to capture Princess Leia by Palpatine (later retconned to Padme Amidala).

In that same comic, it is revealed that Mandalore, a lush jungle/forest planet, came under the heel of the Empire after the Clone Wars, and the other two Mandalorian supercommandos, Fenn Shysa and Tobbi Dala, returned to train a group of Mandalorian Protectors to wage guerilla warfare against the Imperial slavers. Princess Leia showed up looking for Dengar and got involved in the Mandalorian rebellion which eventually led to the liberation of Mandalore from the Empire.

Later on, a writer called Karen Traviss would come along and make a lot of retcons (the two mentioned were hers). She successfully turned Boba Fett and the Mandalorians into a group of Mary Sue infallible good-guy warrior badasses and drove the entire concept into the ground while creating a really creepily-dedicated and aggressive fanbase and a full language to use in her books. Luckily she got butthurt about the possibility of her stories being overwritten and quit Star Wars in a huff before going off to write awful Halo books.

The Clone Wars retconned things in a more interesting direction by making the Mandalorians a warrior culture that had fought so many wars that Mandalore had been reduced to a barren wasteland, and the current ruler was an off-worlder and a pacifist who had exiled the planet’s remaining warriors to the moon Concordia. I won’t give any spoilers about the arc because it’s actually quite interesting and I think very good, but suffice to say it’s hard to keep warriors down.

Personally, I preferred the idea that “Mandalorian” was more of a warrior culture that one could ascribe to (which prevailed around the Tales of the Jedi and Knights of The Old Republic eras, and even into the Open Seasons comic), rather than a set people from a set planet. But I also really, really enjoyed the way the Mandalorian arcs played out in The Clone Wars.

Interesting concept.

Anchorhead said:

Smithers said:
I’m currently reading Scoundrels and I’m liking it thus far. I trust Timothy Zahn more than most writers to make a good Star Wars story. I’ll keep you guys posted.

I feel the same way about Zahn. Definitely understands the Star Wars universe. I’ve read all of his Star Wars novels and haven’t been disappointed yet. Hes my go-to when I need a Star Wars fix.

Zahn does a good job with the technology of Star Wars and brings a level of military strategy that elevates even the OT, but whenever he’s trying to rationalize things by resorting to Battle Meditation or Force ‘shielding’, or anything involving Ysalamiri, I can’t help but think

Well it doesn’t outright contradict anything, but it strains credulity to imagine the Emperor coordinating the Death Star 2 trap while also trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. Apart from being unnecessary, wouldn’t it have been better to just concentrate on one thing at a time so that you don’t half-ass the corruption of the guy you want to replace your right-hand-man?

My primary issue with the Force as portrayed in the Zhan novels is that he interprets it as a literal energy field like shields or holograms, instead of the spiritual force that it should be. It is like if you sailed up to Jesus walking on the surface of a lake and pulled out a religion-cancelling cat, and he suddenly fell into the water. ‘The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. Unless you’re near a Force-cancelling creature, then our entire religion kind of falls apart’. And what kind of madness is that anyway? ‘Life creates it, makes it grow.’ How can a life form negate its own life force?

Also, the light side and the Dark Side are not analogous to positive and negative flows of electricity. You can’t negate the power of the Force by pairing off every Jedi with a Sith. The Force is with those who have an instrumental part to play in the destiny of the galaxy, and this is why the Emperor could build an Empire and why Luke was able to blow up the Death Star and it is why Vader was able to overthrow the Emperor. There is a Napoleon quote that I think is applicable here:

“I feel myself driven towards an end that I do not know. As soon as I have reached it, as soon as I shall become unnecessary, an atom will suffice to shatter me.
Until then, all the forces of mankind can do nothing to stop me.”

I still haven’t read that one. Kind of gave up after AOTC came out. I did like TPM’s novelization though.

I will have to pick it up.

NeverarGreat said:

Well it doesn’t outright contradict anything, but it strains credulity to imagine the Emperor coordinating the Death Star 2 trap while also trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. Apart from being unnecessary, wouldn’t it have been better to just concentrate on one thing at a time so that you don’t half-ass the corruption of the guy you want to replace your right-hand-man?

My primary issue with the Force as portrayed in the Zhan novels is that he interprets it as a literal energy field like shields or holograms, instead of the spiritual force that it should be. It is like if you sailed up to Jesus walking on the surface of a lake and pulled out a religion-cancelling cat, and he suddenly fell into the water. ‘The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. Unless you’re near a Force-cancelling creature, then our entire religion kind of falls apart’. And what kind of madness is that anyway? ‘Life creates it, makes it grow.’ How can a life form negate its own life force?

Also, the light side and the Dark Side are not analogous to positive and negative flows of electricity. You can’t negate the power of the Force by pairing off every Jedi with a Sith. The Force is with those who have an instrumental part to play in the destiny of the galaxy, and this is why the Emperor could build an Empire and why Luke was able to blow up the Death Star and it is why Vader was able to overthrow the Emperor. There is a Napoleon quote that I think is applicable here:

“I feel myself driven towards an end that I do not know. As soon as I have reached it, as soon as I shall become unnecessary, an atom will suffice to shatter me.
Until then, all the forces of mankind can do nothing to stop me.”

Well-written.

Yeah Zahn sometimes writes some force-related stuff that I can’t wrap my head around but I let it slide because they’re otherwise pretty good books.

I’m going to read the ROTS novelization because I put it on hold at the library and once it arrived they let me keep it because of the condition it was in (which wasn’t even bad after you remove the laminate from the slip cover) so it’s been sitting on the shelf for a while but I’m looking forward to eventually cracking it open.

The one thing I don’t like about the Thrawn trilogy is how Zahn ascribes the Empire’s battle successes to some sort of psychic hold the Emperor has over the entire Imperial navy. Zahn himself noted this was based on Lord of the Rings, but I don’t think you need this sort of plot device to explain Imperial competence.

Pretty much the entirety of Survivor’s Quest is awesome. I’m also loving Outbound Flight so far, perhaps even more.

I adore the Star Wars comic series that started in 1998 and continued in Star Wars: Republic. I especially enjoy the comics based around the Clone Wars.