The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 49

There's a video of one of the model-makers at Lucasfilm regarding the wrong scale of the models they used for TPM. Apparently they were on a time constraint which meant the model looks off. 

Someone has suggested that this is the shot he was talking about. Perhaps we will see Andywan editing this shot one day? 

The video he was talking about in it: 

Starts around the 9 min mark. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZZXZ0mHz7k#t=766

So I had a "radical" idea for both the OT and the PT (in making it less redundant and connection it more together):

first I would drop the second Deathstar - moving the battle to Coruscant (to the end of RotJ), like it was meant in the "first draft" - the duel would then be on the planet or inside, what works best.

as an alternative to removing the half-finished DS, there could be 2(!) - one unfinished, more open (maybe just the super-laser) and one finished (hidden in off-sight) There should not be the complete imperial fleet in orbit.

Connecting with the PT: maybe replace the droid-control-ships with  "space/battle-stations" (foreshadowing the first DS)

instead of just showing the plans for the "ultimate weapon", let them build a prototype, not as refined and big as the real DS, but close enough for Obi-Wan to recognize years later, how similar in design ...

brimforge said:

So I had a "radical" idea for both the OT and the PT (in making it less redundant and connection it more together):

first I would drop the second Deathstar - moving the battle to Coruscant (to the end of RotJ), like it was meant in the "first draft" - the duel would then be on the planet or inside, what works best.

as an alternative to removing the half-finished DS, there could be 2(!) - one unfinished, more open (maybe just the super-laser) and one finished (hidden in off-sight) There should not be the complete imperial fleet in orbit.

Connecting with the PT: maybe replace the droid-control-ships with  "space/battle-stations" (foreshadowing the first DS)

instead of just showing the plans for the "ultimate weapon", let them build a prototype, not as refined and big as the real DS, but close enough for Obi-Wan to recognize years later, how similar in design ...

Some have suggested keeping the Endor stuff as is, but making it the moon of Coruscant. It's already stated to be a moon, so not that much of a stretch to make it a moon of somewhere else. I seem to recall reading that in the original draft, this was indeed the case.

Personally, I would LOVE to see the second DS kept (that half built aesthetic is really iconic), but make it less blatant from the start. Its existence ought to have been a surprise and it should be revealed later in the film when the Rebels are launching their assault (on Coruscant). The DS being there at all is the "TRAP" then, rather than it being about it being operational. The Endor shield generator would have to be repurposed to be for a planetary shield around Coruscant rather than the one protecting the DS. 

This would also mean the first shot in the movie being changed so the shuttle approaches Coruscant instead. The docking bay it lands in can be repurposed to be on the surface of the planet (in a base, or palace). The approach to the planet would necessitate some pretty heavy CG animation though.

ROTJ's opening really needed something fresh and new that we'd never seen before, and finally seeing the Imperial world would have fitted the bill nicely. Instead, we got a rehash of ANH's opening. What the hell were they thinking?

timdiggerm said:

That brings about a host of new questions

• Why hasn't Coruscant consumed its moon in buildings?
• Why doesn't the Empire know much about the natives of the moon of its own capital?
• Why is it surprising that Palpatine is coming to his own capital? He spent most of his time in the prequels there, and it's the capital of his Empire.
• What is the importance of the forest moon of Coruscant? This is the big one.

The first point is the only one that raised questions for me......erm.....nature reserve? :p
Maybe it was unspoilt in the time of the Prequels for some conservationist reason. Who knows. The point is that by the time of ROTJ, there are buildings being built there by the Empire, and the shield generator itself is there of course. Maybe lots of technology would interfere with the shield generator or something for all the audience would know.

The Empire not knowing much about the natives......not a problem for me, and is it even explicitly stated they don't? In any case, the Empire is arrogant. It's just like them to underestimate the ewoks. 

Regarding Palpatine not living on Coruscant, that's not an issue at all in my view. He's a dictator. He'll be living at an undisclosed location in some opulent palace, totally hidden from potential assassins. He doesn't need to be on Coruscant to run his Empire. He has his lackeys to do it for him.

As for what's the importance of the forest moon......the generator for the shield that protects the planet is there......

timdiggerm said:

Are you saying the Rebels' new goal is to blow up a planet more populated than Alderaan??

No. Just to bombard the surface in key places (Imperial bases, etc) just as the Empire planned to do on Hoth (were it not for the Rebels' own shield generator).

Yes, this introduces the issue of heavy civilian losses, but this is war. The Rebels have difficult choices to make to end the Empire's tyranny. The film needs that darker tone to it IMO.

The two death star scenario has been suggested before ;-D

timdiggerm said:

• What is the importance of the forest moon of Coruscant? This is the big one.

 I had toyed around with the possibility of moving the Jedi temple to a moon of Coruscant....just to put it in a more remote location, not so much in the city center.....as I've always felt that it should have been more connected to nature, more isolated and monk-like in its emplacement. But it would really depend on how much of the original material from the films one wanted to keep in an edit. People travel to the temple in open top speeders, so this idea wouldn't work....unless you were changing or removing that from your edit and having them arrive in space-going ships instead (the travel time would hardly need to change as a moon is still fairly close). Ultimately I realized that it would be an easier idea to integrate if you simply put the temple in a sort of nature preserve on Coruscant....sort of like Central Park in NY. You could have a central road leading through the park to the temple, and on each side would be fields. One might see Jedi farming their own food.....fields filled with Jedi meditating alone or in ground being led by a master......very reminiscent of old samurai films (the Zatoichi series comes to mind).

But if one wanted, perhaps the now destroyed Jedi temple could have been on a forested moon of Coruscant. It wouldn't necessarily be of huge importance to the Empire, but they might choose to desecrate the temple further by building the shield generator there to protect the main planet.

Blockade and force Coruscant into a siege. The rebels would be desperate for this to happen, as since ESB they have been aggressively pursued and chased around the galaxy and are willing to launch a risky attack on the imperial center. They are losing the war, a second DS is being built, and they need a decisive victory now to turn the tide of the war before it is finished. Time is running out!

The idea for Endor would be it's been a symbol of nature and peace for thousands of years but overpopulation on Coruscant is forcing the empire to clear it for settlement.

So, you can put some of those big Avatar front loaders knocking down trees and so forth. You could even edit in some of those shots of that huge open mine on Pandora as the spaceship flies over. This would be a quick visual example of how the empire is transforming the landscape. The human Pandoran base could become the generator base. 

@Bingo

I meant this idea(s) from the first draft (or concept art) - giving the final battle some more weight, against as to why it would be in the middle of nowhere ...

as for Coruscant, Siege and Emperor: it would be interesting for the Rebellion to capture or kill Palpatine and since (if one keeps) the Siege in Episode 3 (or somewhere in the PT) it is easy to explain as to why the Emperor isn't anymore on Coruscant, "living" on a secret base (Korriban/Morriband?) - and remember the Senate was dissolved in ANH, so Coruscant is the toothless lion

The assault would involve Endor with the shield-generator (the idea to have the/a Jedi temple there is a nice one), the rebel fleet against one or more DS (because it would be logical to build more than one between ANH and ROTJ) and Lukes confrontation with the Emperor

for "the trap" would also mean, the imperial fleet could stand down, because there would be enough firepower in hiding and only a personal escort is present for Palpatines arrival ...

How about this? - within the prologue of ROTJ, you could establish that much more time had passed, and the rebellion has gained a huge momentum, having recently captured Coruscant.

The Emperor and much of the Imperial fleet has since disappeared - however there are relentless attacks on the capitol by the Imperials.

The Rebel's desperate to hold the City Planet will have committed ALL their resources to holding it (all the eggs are in one basket).

The Rebel's discover the Death Star II plans within the city (opening scenes) - and thus a strike team is forced to chase it down. Meanwhile Luke/Leia etc are on tatooine freeing Han.

The big reveal would be that the EMPEROR is on the Death Star, and he is going to use it as his new seat of Power. He allowed the Rebel's to audaciously capture Coruscant in order to force them into one single location, which he intends to destroy.

It might up the stakes a bit when they realise it's operational, and at any given moment he's going to jump into Hyperspace.

I really like those ideas ...

but it still has that repeat of ANH - so to enhance this, maybe our heroes find/capture a prototype to battle the new DS?

at least this would scrap another "we need to fly into/through the trench" solution and making it an epic conclusion (if we decide to stop and not continue with Episode 7-9)

must meditate on this new events ;-)

Rebels capturing a prototype Death Star is a whole film worth of plot.

Back when I suggested the Emperor taking Luke to a surprise Death Star and having the two fleets stuck between the two battle stations I thought it through and it could be done with a tweak to the existing footage.

Why on Earth would the Rebels bring their fleet to such a risky winner takes all game if they had a Death Star of their own?

Personally I think the idea of going straight to Coruscant is also problematic.

That would be a few more victories down the line at least.

It's logical they would build one Death Star somewhere remote to make the cover story plausible and lure the rebels in with a weakened Death Star and then pick them off with a more complete one.

When the Emperor's disregard for his own men becomes obvious have a few mutinies to prove that not everyone in the Empire is beyond redemption (which is the lesson of the final picture what with Vader etc).

Having the Executor become a burning arrow plunging into the heart of a Death Star rather than pop on the surface like a dropped slice of pizza gives that beautiful ship a better send off.

It also give Piett, a nice arc which mirrors his direct superior but that's just me.

I'm sure Ady and the team have tonnes of more interesting ideas which play completely differently.

Ah the possibilities ...

yes, I know what you mean Bingo, but it could turn out in different ways:

- the plan is to capture the Emperor or invade Coruscant in a desperate strike to end the civil war (in which Palpatine traps the rebel fleet)

- our heroes (after or instead of Han's rescue) steal the protoype* to help the trapped fleet (some tweaking needs to be done here)

- no prototype side-story / heroes meet with fleet, mostly happens as in original, only that there are more DS / Palpatine crushes his own ships / DS#2 or SuperStarDestroyer moves against other DS (with Emperor on it)

I see some options as to what and why - Palpatine sacrificing his troops (the Superlaser could blow up ships or he could order to shoot at Endor, as was considered - therefore driving some Admirals and Captains to defect/refuse to obey orders)

* I think the prototyp more of the basic parts, the generator(core) and the attached Superlaser - maybe some operational stations, but in general it should not be finished (maybe even the laser isn't tested yet and they ram the thing into the other like the SSD did)

add to "capture prototype": maybe the heroes try to infiltrate DS#2 instead of landing on Endor - so the "bait" could be used as suggested above to damage the finished DS and helping the rebel fleet (it could all happen in Coruscants orbit, so the end-battle isn't divided over half the galaxy)

ben_danger said:

...within the prologue of ROTJ, you could establish that much more time had passed, and the rebellion has gained a huge momentum, having recently captured Coruscant.

The Emperor and much of the Imperial fleet has since disappeared - however there are relentless attacks on the capitol by the Imperials.

The Rebel's desperate to hold the City Planet will have committed ALL their resources to holding it (all the eggs are in one basket).

The Rebel's discover the Death Star II plans within the city (opening scenes) - and thus a strike team is forced to chase it down. Meanwhile Luke/Leia etc are on tatooine freeing Han.

The big reveal would be that the EMPEROR is on the Death Star, and he is going to use it as his new seat of Power. He allowed the Rebel's to audaciously capture Coruscant in order to force them into one single location, which he intends to destroy.

 Some VERY good ideas here. An opening scene of the discovery of the DSII plans could be done with no known characters......maybe just some grunts working on some circuits.....short out a connection (ala R2D2 in ANH) and stumble onto some holographic plans.......and the opening crawl would have taken care of much of the rest. One would probably need some slight dialogue rejigging here and there to make it work perfectly......but this is a seriously solid idea. Makes it very different from ANH.

I agree.  That's a pretty cool idea.

Having finally seen the blu-rays in all their 'glory' I'm more interested in seeing some Jedi collor pass previews than the PT.

Gosh those magenta faces on Endor.

.Mac. said:

Bingowings said:

Having finally seen the blu-rays in all their 'glory' I'm more interested in seeing some Jedi collor pass previews than the PT.

Gosh those magenta faces on Endor.

 And toning down the blues inside the Death Star.

That's just racist. 

mrbenja0618 said:

.Mac. said:

And toning down the blues inside the Death Star.

That's just racist. 

  Maybe he means to quiet the background-music (noise?) a little ;-)  

I prefer DS2 being around Endor's moon where it is. It makes more sense that  it's being built somewhere 'hidden', and that it's a surprise that the Emperor is personally showing up ("The Emperor is coming here!?")

There is just no way the Rebel fleet would do a direct assault on the Coruscant system.

What I will say is, I'd like to see Endor itself more prominent in the forest moon's sky and perhaps in some of the space shots, and the DS2 being more obviously in the moon's orbit in some of the shots also.