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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 46

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ray_afraid said:

.Mac. said:

.....And not just for that scene, but I feel Revisited will also need a Luke-alike for when we have (we must have) an extended showdown between Boba and Luke. At least it won't be difficult to find someone who has a Fett costume.

 But since Boba won't be in ROTJ:R, we won't have to worry about that.
YAY! XD

Last I heard, Ady is wanting to give Boba a better and definite death. Unless he's changed his mind since then?

I can understand some of the points for removing Boba from ROTJ, but to me there are more points in favor for keeping him in. One of them being it's an opportunity to actually show him being a badass hunter that he has the reputation for - let him shine before he dies (with more dignity) - fans of Fett will likely appreciate this more than just deleting him. I have a detailed outline to share for how it could possibly go down, but I'm waiting for when the time is right and Ady is ready for suggestions.

Wishlist Of Ideas/Suggestions For Improving ROTJ

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Don't talk about Boba Fett! People always get angry when his name is brought up and uncontrollable anger occurs.

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When Obi-wan drops off baby Luke to the Lars Homestead in ROTS this is when the fight with Maul and Qui-gon should happen.

Perhaps Qui-gon should be trying to rescue Obi-wan (would have to Add the cgi beard) But Qui-gon would be referring to Luke when he says train the boy and not Anakin. Kid Anakin is actually young Luke.

This is perhaps the best edit Idea I have Had in a long time.

I also started thinking about young kid anakin from TPM looks more like a young Mark Hamil than a kid Hayden Christenson.

Obi-wan should have doubt about training Luke not Anakin / Darth Vader Qui-gon must be the one to tell Obi-wan to train Luke for which he eventuallly does years Later to right the wrong of Darth Vader. Perhaps the Backgrounds of the duel on Naboo could be Made into A desert Tatooine setting instead making Obi-wans story a bit more complex. We never needed to know Kid Anakin at all but it would make sense to know a Kid Luke.

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Hm, interesting take - changing Ani to Luke - but should Maul still be the Sith Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan duel or change that too ?

if changed to Vader (if he is still Ani) problem is, that he knows of Luke - if NOT Anakin, then where is Ani (or do we have another "Vader"?)

Lucas got himself and us into a mess and without fresh material this gordon knot isn't easy to undo ...

I would like to have the PT be more a story of the Clone Wars (alike our WW1), with pre-imperial technology and seeing the Jedi as the heroes which Obi-Wan promised us - making Anakin something like "Baron von Richthofen", real knights of the sky ;-)

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Agreed, I think he should NOT be Jabba's bodyguard, he is a solitary man, like "the man with no name", he doesn't need to hang around at a palace and flirt with girls - he did his job and that is that.

IF one wants to get more FETT, let him deliver the plans or information to the Bothans or rebels ...

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Just throwing in my two cents on a few of the topics discussed here.

Fett - stop the Fett fan service. He's menacing in ESB because he doesn't say much and doesn't take any crap. He even questions Vader in the carbonite chamber (ballsy, isn't he?) There's nothing wrong with him never being seen in ROTJ because he made his delivery to Jabba, collected his money, and he's off chasing down some other poor schmuck.

Force ghosts - I read all of the posts and agree with many of the attempts to explain it all. It just hit me, Obi Wan says, "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." He has learned a deeper connection to the Force than Anakin ever did (hence Vader's surprise). We see lots of jedi bodies in the PT because they never escalated to that level. Even those on the Jedi Council hadn't figured it out. Yoda did because Yoda's amazing. Obi-Wan figured it out through meditation and discipline in his years in hiding on Tatooine. Maybe he also took midicholrian injections [ducks and covers]. If you leave out the whole nonsense about "teaching Obi-Wan to commune with Qui-Gon's ghost" in ROTS, it's a plausible explanation. I don't think Anakin deserves a force ghost at the end of ROTJ, but it does give it a nice happy ending.

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BlueCardinal said:

Just throwing in my two cents on a few of the topics discussed here.

Fett - stop the Fett fan service. He's menacing in ESB because he doesn't say much and doesn't take any crap. He even questions Vader in the carbonite chamber (ballsy, isn't he?) There's nothing wrong with him never being seen in ROTJ because he made his delivery to Jabba, collected his money, and he's off chasing down some other poor schmuck.

Force ghosts - I read all of the posts and agree with many of the attempts to explain it all. It just hit me, Obi Wan says, "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." He has learned a deeper connection to the Force than Anakin ever did (hence Vader's surprise). We see lots of jedi bodies in the PT because they never escalated to that level. Even those on the Jedi Council hadn't figured it out. Yoda did because Yoda's amazing. Obi-Wan figured it out through meditation and discipline in his years in hiding on Tatooine. Maybe he also took midicholrian injections [ducks and covers]. If you leave out the whole nonsense about "teaching Obi-Wan to commune with Qui-Gon's ghost" in ROTS, it's a plausible explanation. I don't think Anakin deserves a force ghost at the end of ROTJ, but it does give it a nice happy ending.

I have no problem with Fett being in ROTJ, as long as he doesn't go out like a punk - something I believe Ady has said he'll be addressing. You can see it both ways. Some might want it unresolved and that makes the story darker and more cynical - if there's no justice, what else do we have in store for our characters? Others might feel that there does need to be a conclusion to his story rather than it be left without him getting his comeuppance. It was afterall going to be called 'Revenge of the Jedi'. Luke should take vengeance for his friend.

I'm on the fence. I don't care one way or the other about Fett. His role is always going to be perfunctory for me. 

The fan-service didn't start in earnest until Attack of the Clones and that's where the main problems lie IMO. I was all for seeing the Mandalorian armour in the Prequels - ideally as the main antagonistic force, but not specifically in conjunction with Fett. But instead the movie went full fan-service - showing him with his daddy, which shrunk the universe. 

In the remade prequels of my imagination, the armour would look a bit different to what we see Fett wear in ESB. The helmet would be the same design, plus a few things like the chest and shoulder/knee pads, however there'd be additional parts of the armour we would assume were lost/discarded when Fett found a set of it. Likewise, some parts of Fett's armour (like the jumpsuit, hair braids, etc) would be absent from what we see in the Prequels. This would give Fett his own cobbled together identity, and would suggest that his armour was largely scavenged.


Regarding Force ghosts - I can see both sides of whether Jedi should disappear upon death in the Prequels. I hated the hamfisted way George tried making it a whole new skill in ROTS, but at the same time, I see your point that Darth does seem surprised when Ben does it in front of him. The ideal would be if it was established in the Prequels that only a few, extremely powerful Jedi had ever achieved 'enlightenment' and learnt to ascend in this way upon death, and it hadn't happened in hundreds of years. That way, Anakin can have knowledge of this ancient skill, and therefore be surprised his old master has managed it, rather than it being entirely unknown to him.

Of course, it would be difficult, if not impossible to incorporate this info into an edit, as we're extremely limited by the source material. The only convo I can think of where Anakin discusses an ancient power is in the convo with Palps in ROTS about the power to stop people from dying (and later he even refers to it rather perfectly as "the power to cheat death", albeit in his terrible monster voice). If this convo could be somehow made to be about the power to 'ascend', whether it's being discussed with Palps, or if the convo could be made to happen with another character, then a prior knowledge of what happens with Ben in ANH could be established. It would be ironic if Anakin turned to the dark side in order to try to become immortal, but it was the Jedi teachings that held the secret all along!

As for Anakin having a ghost in ROTJ, he absolutely should. It's part of his journey, and for him to be redeemed and standing there at the end is the conclusion of his character arc. When you say he doesn't "deserve" a ghost, well once you take out the butchering and child murder from the Prequels (a given, I think), Vader isn't quite so unforgivable. Yes, we know from ANH that he's a bad guy who was instrumental in hunting down the Jedi, but that doesn't mean we need to see him as a violent murderer.

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Fett fan-service did start with the special edition of ANH, when Lucas cramed in the scene with Jabba, that is redundant ...

and yes, the Madalorians should have been some kind of threat in the prequels, at least a shadow that was defeated in a war before

as for "Revenge", Luke had many foes to battle, Fett wasn't "big" enough, think Jabba, Vader and the Emperor ;-)

Force ghosts: I had a thought about how and why Anakin could be seen - maybe it was not him to learn, maybe Yoda or Obi-Wan felt in the Force, that he had really turned from dark to light and collected his spirit, to say a last goodbye to Luke before they together become one with the Force - so the "old" Anakin makes more sense, then a juvinated one ...

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I'd keep some of the butchery and child murder in the PT but have masked Vader do it or Anakin seem to dream it.

To be redeemed he has to be evil.

As for the ghost thing maybe it's more Luke's reward rather than a full redemption for Anakin.

I could imagine him continue to pass on Force tips to his son. Three transfigured masters of the Old Republic helping the last of the Jedi become as powerful as they were.

That might go some way to redeem Anakin, much more than throwing an old guy down an inexplicable hole in the floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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"If Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld and Ben will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force." - ROTJ rough draft

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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@darklordoftech

heh, kind of like makes my point ;-)

yeah, I agree Bingo, if Anakin was torn apart before he really turns, that would give the audience more insight how the dark side works and his redemption could be reasoned, even if he killed children (as you suggested in a vision/dream)

the dark spectre/ sith assassin should appear very early to shadow Anakins moves, so one thinks he will be his next victim, making Obi-Wans tale sort of true ...

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Bingowings said:

I'd keep some of the butchery and child murder in the PT but have masked Vader do it

 I think you are nearly there but I hate the child butchery element.

I think we need to just simply have Anakin feel betrayed and confused and have a vendetta against the Jedi Order as a re-incarnated Cyborg Darth Vader. The whole order 66 thing was a huge failure in my eyes too.

Vader should have been shown in suit hunting down the Jedi one by one like a hit man revenge flick, wiping out the people that misunderstood him as Anakin. But perhaps we would be unaware of who he really was. A mysterious figure and assassin.

We need to be able to understand that motivation to destroy the Jedi because he felt betrayed. I would go as far to say that the line between good and evil should become very blurred rather than so clean cut. I want to see that cyborg Vader go after revenge and get it replacing the clones shooting the Jedi to death. That was not the legend. Ben cannot be telling complete and utter lies can he?

But if we were to experience a revenge story of that magnitude which would have been better than what we got how would that then place the Anakin reveal at the end of ROTJ and could you feel happy that he got redemption knowing he had hunted down and slayed all the Jedi apart from the last one which was his very own son... That is what we were told, but it is not what happened in the PT. Actually he "helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi" to quote Ben but surely that would entail him actually doing that also and being part of "The Empire" which was kind of not fully realized in the PT also. I don't know but it really would have been good to see Vader actually at the helm of destroying the Jedi Rather than the clones.

Young Obi-wan vs Darth Vader in suit? Obiwan senses it is someone he knows? The key to making Vader's character Arc really work is that Anakin felt betrayed perhaps because they stole his children and he knew it whilst recovering from near death.

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I think we should have Anakin as a conflicted and psychologically troubled hero who seems to be killed uncovering the truth about the chancellor.

Vader is the masked destroyer in his dreams (possibly prophetic like Luke's vision in the cave) who later storms the temple and leads attacks against Jedi on many worlds before being sent to a date with Madame De Barbecue.

Drop in a line about Kenobi already having pupil before he takes on Anakin and remove the Skywalker name from the PT and you have all the cover story you need to keep the OT surprises and still tell much of the same story only better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:

Drop in a line about Kenobi already having pupil before he takes on Anakin and remove the Skywalker name from the PT and you have all the cover story you need to keep the OT surprises and still tell much of the same story only better.

Except, you still have Ben describing Luke's father to him in ANH as a great pilot, an old friend etc. If we never meet anyone else who could match this description in the Prequels, and instead the closest we have is "Anakin" Christensen, then the game is up. The solution to not mention the name Skywalker only works if there's another character Ben's description could concievably pertain to. Otherwise the audience will never buy it.

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well, yes we DO need another Jedi to mask  the fact that "Anakin" is Lukes father ...

but there is one other thing, that Obi-Wan or Leia mentions, that never got made or is seen onscreen: how he helped Bail Organa and fought with him side by side (in the "Clone Wars") - THAT should have been in "Episode 3" and more interaction with his pupil(s)

the first thing could be achieved by inserting another actor, the later would ask to remove Jimmy Smits and cast a new Bail Organa (not sure if there is enough material to support interaction with Obi-Wan)

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brimforge said:

well, yes we DO need another Jedi to mask  the fact that "Anakin" is Lukes father ...

but there is one other thing, that Obi-Wan or Leia mentions, that never got made or is seen onscreen: how he helped Bail Organa and fought with him side by side (in the "Clone Wars") - THAT should have been in "Episode 3" and more interaction with his pupil(s)

the first thing could be achieved by inserting another actor, the later would ask to remove Jimmy Smits and cast a new Bail Organa (not sure if there is enough material to support interaction with Obi-Wan)

 Maybe Leia's "side by side" can be removed?!

“Did you know, the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?! Look it up.”

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brash_stryker said:

Bingowings said:

Drop in a line about Kenobi already having pupil before he takes on Anakin and remove the Skywalker name from the PT and you have all the cover story you need to keep the OT surprises and still tell much of the same story only better.

Except, you still have Ben describing Luke's father to him in ANH as a great pilot, an old friend etc. If we never meet anyone else who could match this description in the Prequels, and instead the closest we have is "Anakin" Christensen, then the game is up. The solution to not mention the name Skywalker only works if there's another character Ben's description could concievably pertain to. Otherwise the audience will never buy it.

His old friend and pilot could be the chap Mace tells Obi-Wan he can't train Anakin because of (by shifting the line from Qui-Gon about Obi-Wan to Obi-Wan about his other student). You could even insert a shot of that surly looking kid playing Boba Fett excised from AOTC to represent the other pupil or anyone to be honest.

You don't have to have some chap with a deep voice walk by Ewan and say "Hey buddy...I'm just off to fly my spaceship through a difficult to maneuver obstacle course while reading this catalogue of dark clothes and gas masks. Good luck with my replacement".

The stupid potential audience are already enjoying the PT for what it is.

Any reworking is to appeal to people with enough brains to fill in at least some of the gaps themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:

brash_stryker said:

Bingowings said:

Drop in a line about Kenobi already having pupil before he takes on Anakin and remove the Skywalker name from the PT and you have all the cover story you need to keep the OT surprises and still tell much of the same story only better.

Except, you still have Ben describing Luke's father to him in ANH as a great pilot, an old friend etc. If we never meet anyone else who could match this description in the Prequels, and instead the closest we have is "Anakin" Christensen, then the game is up. The solution to not mention the name Skywalker only works if there's another character Ben's description could concievably pertain to. Otherwise the audience will never buy it.

His old friend and pilot could be the chap Mace tells Obi-Wan he can't train Anakin because of (by shifting the line from Qui-Gon about Obi-Wan to Obi-Wan about his other student). You could even insert a shot of that surly looking kid playing Boba Fett excised from AOTC to represent the other pupil or anyone to be honest.

You don't have to have some chap with a deep voice walk by Ewan and say "Hey buddy...I'm just off to fly my spaceship through a difficult to maneuver obstacle course while reading this catalogue of dark clothes and gas masks. Good luck with my replacement".

The stupid potential audience are already enjoying the PT for what it is.

Any reworking is to appeal to people with enough brains to fill in at least some of the gaps themselves.

I think you've missed my point a bit. It doesn't matter how much you hint at, or even show another apprentice (which I'm all for, by the way!). It still doesn't give us an actor that can pertain to this line "starpilot, cunning warrior, good friend". This indicates a comrade, a brother in arms, who would be around for at least one of the prequels. Are the audience supposed to challenge their suspension of disbelief by assuming this character was entirely off screen? Or is it in fact far easier, and far more logical for them to point to Anakin? I don't think anyone would ever listen to Obi's line in ANH and think "Oh he must mean someone we've never seen". Does the line really sound like it's about a bit part?

Contrary to your assertion, it's the "stupid" audience that would watch the movie and just not question who this info pertains to. If he was that prominent for Obi Wan to have reflected on fondly with a big nostalgic grin on his face, it couldn't have possibly been an off-screen character, therefore the only person left to vaguely match the description is Anakin - even if George got it all wrong and Prequel Anakin never acts like much of a friend. But short of inserting a new adult actor alongside Anakin and Obi Wan, and calling all 3 of them to Ady's green screen hut for reshoots, this isn't going to happen.

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Joachim Phoenix was the perfect choice for Anakin; estoic, heroic, roman like. Mel Gibson resembles Alec Guinness way more than Ewan. 

The leading duo of Signs actually depict better what the relationship between Anakin and ObiWan should have been than the whole PT

Not trolling here.

Wish I was.

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I would have made Luke Skywalker's real name (insert a first name here) Vader instead of making Darth Vader's real name Anakin Skywalker. This way Obi-Wan really did have a pupil named Darth Vader who turned to the dark side, joined the Empire, and betrayed and murdered the Jedi. This means that Imperial propaganda doesn't have to explain where Vader came from and Vader's "my old master" dialogue with Tarkin doesn't hint at Tarkin knowing anything. Instead of Luke not knowing about Anakin because of Tatooine being isolated, Luke doesn't know about Anakin because "Anakin" never existed.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer