The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 45

ray_afraid said:

Any ideas on how Revisited will handle Jedi death and force ghost tomfoolery?
Do all Jedis disappear and become ghosts when they die? Only "Jedi Masters"? Only Obi-Wan and Yoda?
Will Any more sense be made of it all?

Personally I think no explanation is a better explanation. Some can, some can't.....I don't need to know why.

ray_afraid said:

I don't need to know the whys, but I'd like it to at least be consistent.
In Star Wars, Obi-Wan disappeared because he's a wizard of some kind and that's what happens.
In Jedi, Yoda disappears because the first film established that that's what happens. Anakin doesn't, but he was a bad guy, so maybe he doesn't get the same rewards.... only he does. So it doesn't make sense.
Then the PT made it all even worse and made no effort to explain this weird thing that happens twice for no reason except maybe to avoid having an old man sliced in half on screen in an adventure for all ages.
So, I say all Jedi who die but don't disappear can't come back or contact the living. All who come back as telepathic ghost people should also disappear when they die.
Again, I don't need to know the whys, I'd just like consistency.
KnowwhatImean?

 yeah, I don't disagree with that....as long as it's left vague and not given a silly explanation ala George.

Maybe Obi pulled a few strings on the 'other side'. 

"N'awwww, I know he didn't do the whole disappeary thing, but he did good.....eventually......pretty please?"

ray_afraid said:

It may make the funeral pyre scene a bit strange as Luke would just be torching the suit...
But I think it would still work as personal closure for Luke- a funeral for his father and destroying the visual remains of his dark side.

Any opinions?

 well IF Anakin does disapear in Luke's arms, he later burns not only the empty suit, remember Vader had lost most of his body due the fight with Obi-Wan and other events before ANH (either how one wants to see it)

so, yes a symbolic closure and a complete destruction what the (last?) Dark Lord of the Sith was ...

To give an honest opinion on this subject.

I accept Jedi as etherial ghosts, and them fading into the ether (transparent)

although.. and this is a bit iffy somehow I don't like the idea of Vader going quite the same way but not that I don't agree with what's left of his physical form should vanish.

I could imagine his head or what's left crumbling to dust almost like going in a similar fashion but not quite the same.

It's a tricky subject to confront such ambiguous mythos but I have to admit I very much like the idea of the empty mechanical husk that is left to be burnt on the pyre.

It's an interesting take not sure if it woould work either vanishing like a Jedi or in another way like I suggested but yes I will say it's a fascinating take on the mythos.

I don't see Vader as fully redeemed just because he threw down the emperor and although a very good deed it still for me does not cancel all of the atrocity so don't mind his ghost showing up either, but should there still be something that singles Vader out as a bit different?

Perhaps Anakin's ghost should only appear momentarily and then fade whilst Yoda and Ben stay visible almost suggesting they brought him along to show luke with their powers a glimpse of his fathers spirit rather than this contrived vision that he has been redeemed for one act of good amongst many bad evil doings. and it was done for Luke not for Anakin.

relegating Anakin to a ghost by removing the blue aura so it would imply he spirit is at peace but he is not a force ghost and had not the means to become one being a sith and all.

I don't know but that is a different way of looking at it I guess

something that is also very important only Luke can see the ghosts nobody else can. And he only sees visitation by force ghosts but if Anakin was shown in commune and un force ghosted it would take on a whole new meaning to the realm of the "Force Ghosts" and create even greater mythos so I think that could be a very good thing in a way..

Hello these are some ideas of a PT revisited!

Phantom menace

Erase all jarjar presence and the gungans in general!I know its a lot of work but if your just erase digitally jar jar and keep the scenes it works!Another idea is introducing C3po (golden shiny suit) in the film actually beeing aboard the royal Naboo ship as a translator,and then have him inserted were jarjar is in every scene,imagine it i think it can work!(i know it need a lot of work with all that digital erasing and filming of a c3po intertion in the film but it willl be alot better!

We dont see Darth Sedious at all!(He is revealed in AOTC) he is replaced by Darth Maul!so we are wondering is Maul the apprentice or the master?And he doesnt get killed in the end he just leaves obi wan for dead!

Attack of the clones                                                                                                                                                                Replace c3po with the shiny golden suit and your ok!Erase jarjars limited show time and add c3po!No Count Dooku!Darth Maul takes his part!

Revenge of the Sith 

No Count Dooku and no General Grevious!Darth Maul takes Count Dooku part and Grevius is erased completly!

I know its a lot of work but i think its worth it!

One way you can solve the fading problem is by having Yoda and Ben die in the Clone Wars and their physical bodies in the OT are created by the Force to maintain it's balance.

All that business in the PT about the chosen one then makes sense.

When Anakin is born the Jedi greatly outnumber the Sith. By the time he turns there are only two.

We could see them both 'defeated' too but mysteriously return back to physical life.

Even though they are defeated they can't fully pass away while there are two Dark Side warriors ruling the galaxy and Anakin/Vader is the mystical mechanism preventing both sides from gaining the upper hand.

Palpatine can't train armies of Sith while Vader lives and he can't kill Vader while the last Jedi remain hidden.

Ben takes on Luke as a pupil so Vader can now physically defeat him but as Luke is untrained his spirit lingers to keep the balance the Force needs.

The Anakin persona in Vader begins to reawaken after meeting his son so Yoda's body begins to fail.

When Palpatine is dead Luke is the last Jedi so Anakin can linger in spirit even though his machine maintained body has died.

The only way you can explain this is subtly and visually in a PT re-jig.

That way the PT would actually enhance aspects of the OT without having to change it (which is how it should always have been).

Ronster said:

something that is also very important only Luke can see the ghosts nobody else can. And he only sees visitation by force ghosts but if Anakin was shown in commune and un force ghosted it would take on a whole new meaning to the realm of the "Force Ghosts" and create even greater mythos so I think that could be a very good thing in a way..

 hm, could you explain a little more what you have in mind ?

@ Bingo

nay, that is too complicated, such a way could only work in a novel, where everything is explained, when what why - in movies this is not very easy to convey ...

I think Anakin should disapear and thats that - for the PT, he shouldn't be the child-mass-murderer, the Empire has many killers to do the dirty work, Anakin only betrayed his kin not slaughtered them - my two cents.

The problems sort of starts with ESB to be honest.

Back in 1977 there was an Emperor (probably a politician or member of a galactic royal family) there was Vader a former Jedi who killed all but Ben and a mystery about Ben's death/vanishing and yet being able to reappear in Luke's mind.

In 1980 we find out there is one more Jedi (Yoda) and the Emperor is like Vader only more powerful. In which case why were there only two of each? Why didn't Ben train someone else and why didn't Vader or the Emperor train someone else if it's a training someone who is gifted thing?

The suggestion I made creates a reason for why Vader and the Emperor don't kill Ben and Yoda beyond them hiding in a whole galaxy albeit in Ben's case right next to Vader's son on the planet of his childhood where the Princess is heading when the Death Star plans go missing.

It's a delicate dance of major chess pieces. If Vader takes Ben off the board a new Jedi can take his place. If Ben takes a student Vader can physically kill Ben leaving the student vulnerable.

As for explanation you just need to stick a line in to emphasise Yoda's considering the prophecy was miss-interpreted in Episode 3.

Have another Jedi say something like "Balance could mean, balance in numbers" *Yoda strokes chin* and leave it at that.

In the confrontation with Palpatine he could seem to have the upper hand on Yoda but something inexplicably goes wrong... that sort of thing. The idea being that the Force is maintaining them while Anakin/Vader is still around.

Just an idea.

brimforge said:

Ronster said:

something that is also very important only Luke can see the ghosts nobody else can. And he only sees visitation by force ghosts but if Anakin was shown in commune and un force ghosted it would take on a whole new meaning to the realm of the "Force Ghosts" and create even greater mythos so I think that could be a very good thing in a way..

 hm, could you explain a little more what you have in mind ?

 For what it's worth...

Anakin to just be a normal ghost if there is such a thing... Without Blue Aura and fading in later as it is in the film but also fading out leaving Ben and Yoda together as force ghosts with blue auras.

Nothing very complicated.

okay, I thought you meant Anakin had his own vision with a force ghost before and therefore could also vanish - meaning he "learned" that power sometime (offscreen) ...

maybe if this was the hinted "Sith" power Palpatine/Sidious was talking about - to stop people from dying (well, not really, but a Sith doesn't always tell the truth or maybe they misunderstood this force gift?)

Anakin just vanishing and turning up for the victory party, only for a short moment, is strange - better explain the why and what in the PT

so in the OT we see it and in the PT we get a little more insight on the how, but not too much, as people don't like "midis" in their blood ;-)

brimforge said:

maybe if this was the hinted "Sith" power Palpatine/Sidious was talking about - to stop people from dying (well, not really, but a Sith doesn't always tell the truth or maybe they misunderstood this force gift?)

Anakin just vanishing and turning up for the victory party, only for a short moment, is strange - better explain the why and what in the PT

so in the OT we see it and in the PT we get a little more insight on the how, but not too much, as people don't like "midis" in their blood ;-)

 Yeah I agree with you that my take would only work if Vader did not vanish.

But if you take in to account the "Sith Power" that was hinted at also... Then you are astute as this is the only thread from the PT that I would consider altering the OT to fit with the PT.

This mystical power that Sidious talked about was about the best thing the PT had going for it although the context in which it was used was perhaps not very well thought out with Padme and Anakins mother.

Anyway yeah I was seriously thinking about doing a proper edit of ROTJ which would amalgamate many ideas from others and my own, and the "Sith Power" would come to bear in the throne room which is not the finale. The emperor would kill Luke in front of Vader... Vader then Kills the Emperor and while on his last legs brings Luke back to life with this "Sith Power".

This is for emotional purposes and nothing else. Think about Luke coming back from the grave and then trying to save his father who was dying. The prophecy plays out "He was so powerful that he could save others, but not himself" This was to be the the "Big surprise" whilst the brother/sister plot played out differently. Anyway I nearly committed to doing it but ultimately decided I could not be bothered. I was going to show the severed robotic hand of Vader glow and try to show the smoke coming off luke get sucked back into his body before he get's up and runs over to Vader by the railing.

This was to be my final cut on it which I have already thought a lot about ROTJ and seen many edits of it already. So ROTJ would have started at the end of ROTS  and then transition to Luke on Dagobah an extended prologue of sorts but filling in the back story as ROTJ progressed and not always in time line order.

ray_afraid said:

Ronster said:

.....this is the only thread from the PT that I would consider altering the OT to fit with the PT.

 I'm against altering the OT to fit the PT for any reason.

The only reason I suggest making Anakin fade away is so that the force ghost thing makes sense within the OT.

It can still make perfect sense to have Anakin not disappear (at least to me it would). Having him disappear would dissolve a lot of the dramatic tension we already have. ROTJ needs to hold on to its few great moments for dear life!

Either ignoring the prequels entirely, or assuming that Ady will make some or all of the Jedi vanish in them, Anakin's body remaining makes perfect sense. Think about how the audience will view it for a second:

Anakin dies: "Oh no, he didn't vanish. I guess he's in purgatory, force Hell, or wherever bad Jedi go."

Obi and Yoda appear: "Well that's nice.....still sad about Anakin though"

Anakin appears: "YAY! He made it after all!"

Having Anakin's body vanish right after death undoes all of that and removes all ambiguity about whether Anakin redeemed himself at all. His ghost appearing should always be the first indicator that he's made it to "the other side". Otherwise we've already had our visual cue that he has and it diminishes the impact of the moment his ghost appears.

Furthermore, having Anakin's body be the first one you've ever seen to just lay there......feels kind of dark if Ady makes all Prequel Jedi vanish in his versions.

brash_stryker said:

Obi and Yoda appear: "Well that's nice.....still sad about Anakin though"

Anakin appears: "YAY! He made it after all!"

Having Anakin's body vanish right after death undoes all of that and removes all ambiguity about whether Anakin redeemed himself at all. His ghost appearing should always be the first indicator that he's made it to "the other side". Otherwise we've already had our visual cue that he has and it diminishes the impact of the moment his ghost appears.

Furthermore, having Anakin's body be the first one you've ever seen to just lay there......feels kind of dark if Ady makes all Prequel Jedi vanish in his versions.

 I agree with what you are saying, and although I am a bit torn because I also really like the idea of the empty shell of Vader burning on the pyre you are right in that Vader should probably not vanish.

But to me, I don't see any celebration in seeing Anakins / Vaders ghost. It neither makes me happy or sad. I see it more like. So that is what Vader / Anakin looked like when he was still human, that is luke's Dad....I wonder what he was like and how he became this monster half robot evil being.

And then there was Hayden :( Which totally undermined any mystery behind the man that became Vader another reason for the PT to not exist in a trilogy form because when we found out about the mystery mans past instead letting our imagination fill in the gaps the reality was better in our imagination than on film.

The PT in general undermines the whole of ROTJ and ESB but not if it was told in Tandem it would not. If we were drip fed the back story at the relevant time that would not ruin the OT and perhaps serve to support and enhance the whole narrative. There is so much irrelevance to the PT It's obvious you can tell the story without using any PT footage what so ever but ROTJ needs to build upon the release of the revelation at the end of ESB and ROTJ should be all about filling in the gaps as a Prequel / sequel conclusion. Bringing everything together in the 3rd and final film.

If Ben and Yoda were to tell the full story to Luke as he demands to be told and that be spliced with an very heavily edited PT back story. For instance when Ben talks about Leia being Lukes sister. you could show Luke and Leia being born and obiwan delivering Luke to the Lars Homestead.

When Luke Accuses Vader "Then my father is truly dead" you can show Anakin becoming Vader on operating table.

When Yoda talks about why the truth was hidden from Luke about his father, you could show footage of Obi-wan slaying Anakin or more backstory here perhaps pertaining to the obi-wan / Anakin duel. Or another relevant moment more dialogue than the duel itself.

The only film that has any relevance of any real worth in terms of continuing or contributing to the original story and worth telling is in ROTS the other 2 PT films have really no relevance what so ever and have nothing remotely meaningful or any story worth telling in the medium of film. But even ROTS possibly only has around 10-15 minutes maximum or relevant story pertaining to the OT. And it's still questionable that it's needed because we were told the story more or less verbally by Obi-wan and Yoda.

I just saw something on facebook that made me think....Could it be possible to refilm some of the Luke v Vader duel in ROTJ:R? I think it is if you don't show the actor who is playing Luke. I mean the duel in ROTJ was okay, but the choreography was weaksauce even in comparison to the ESB duel. There is even a part in the duel where Luke and Vader do the same exchange for like 5 seconds. I think with some enhancements this could be the greatest duel in the OT bar none. 

A very open-ended question to Ady.

There are rumours that Disney may make some Obi-wan films set between III and IV. If this is true, and these get made (they could be out within the next 5 years plausibly) would you consider utilising these as part of the REVISITED prequel trilogy?

It would obviously be contrary to any current plans, and I imagine you'd have to drop a current prequel to fit it in. It would however present a very alternative SAGA, if we lose the skywalkers for a whole movie.

I'm hoping for YOJIMBO in space.

ben_danger said:

A very open-ended question to Ady.

There are rumours that Disney may make some Obi-wan films set between III and IV. If this is true, and these get made (they could be out within the next 5 years plausibly) would you consider utilising these as part of the REVISITED prequel trilogy?

It would obviously be contrary to any current plans, and I imagine you'd have to drop a current prequel to fit it in. It would however present a very alternative SAGA, if we lose the skywalkers for a whole movie.

I'm hoping for YOJIMBO in space.

 I haven't heard anything about any Obi-Wan films (though I am staying as spoiler free as I can about any new SW material), but if they were to make something like that I highly doubt Ady would ever diverge THAT much from the core saga stories. I would not be surprised, however, if he took bits and pieces from something like that (assuming they were released within the same time period he was working on the PT:R) and used them to supplement his work on episodes 1-3.