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The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome). — Page 7

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To make that work with your idea, Nev, just have Phasma not give them the map, and change the screen graphics to reflect that. It plays out as is, but they still have to destroy the tractor beam to get off the planet, which we could remind the audience one or two times with the pilot VO or subtitles.

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RogueLeader said:

Also, that would be a cool idea for your edit! They fail their mission, but if Rey has “seen” where Luke is, it would also help justify why Rey off all people has to find him.

For whatever it’s worth, I’m pretty sure this is the way it was originally in the shooting script (or something along those lines).

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I actually went back to look at that leaked shooting schedule when I was thinking about this, there’s a lot of interesting stuff in there.

And that idea does make sense. I think you could probably do either version (they get the map, or they fail and Rey figures it out on her own), and it would only require a small amount of changes if you were to go the route I suggested. But I think to accomplish that, the focus of the movie really needs to be just on the map. The more I think about it, having Starkiller be a super weapon or star forge muddies the focus and makes the objective less clear. At least if you were to remove the briefing scene, which might be necessary if you want to make it clear to the audience that they’re going there to get the map. Having it be that they are going to get the map AND blow up their base might make their goals a little less focused, especially if we don’t spell out both goals for the audience, which we can’t really do without the additional dialogue. Just my initial thoughts though.

You would just need to replace any space shots of Starkiller with brand new shots (would probably be easier than painting it out I think).
Possibly a new shot or two of the Falcon and the X-Wings leaving Starkiller base, but you could still use the latter half of the shot of them jumping to hyperspace if you wanted.
The only other issue would be trying to hide the planet collapsing, during the duel. Though if you couldn’t, I don’t think it is a stretch that blowing up a tractor beam generator might have a pretty destructive effect, so it could just be the initial shockwave of it blowing up. I think it could work.

EDIT: Another little idea, during the battle there is a cutaway to the Resistance, and one of the alien officers says, “Two more X-wings down, that’s half our fleet destroyed.” That could be another possible location where dialogue related to the tractor beam could be placed.

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(To clarify what I meant earlier, in the shooting script the map didn’t exist, only Luke’s lightsaber, which is where Rey’s force insight comes in. Irrelevant to any fan edit but interesting to think about.)

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Ah, you’re totally right! I forgot about that.
Here is the leaked shooting schedule for those interested. http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9790
Definitely more focus on “the sword”, is the map even mentioned? I know there were rumors that the map was somehow in the lightsaber as well. But maybe Leia thought she could use the lightsaber to find Luke through the Force. I guess sort of like a search hound can find people by the scent of their clothing? Hahaha.

EDIT: There is one item in the schedule that reads:
INT DAY - 337 - RESISTANCE BASE - MAP ROOM • C3PO, R2-D2, and BB-8 solve the puzzle together.
But I think that is the only hint that there might’ve been a map during this point in the process.

Also if you want avoid Episode IX Spoilers I would suggest not reading through that either.

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Also wanted to add, if you wanted to keep the weapon-aspect of Starkiller Base, you should be able to trim the Resistance briefing to remove any mention of the shields. You possibly could use a shot of 3PO, and possibly come up with some dialogue, where he says something regarding the map after they have discussed the Oscillator, like, “And the map?”. Han looks at Finn and says, “Kid?”, then Finn says something like, “I can do it… but I need to be there, on the planet.” Han, “We’ll get you there.”

So Finn, Han, Chewie and Black Squadron would sort of have two separate objectives. Once Han and Finn get the map (or don’t) Black Squadron comes in to blow Starkiller up.

I think I personally prefer the idea of it not being a weapon, but I think another challenge of removing the weapon aspect would be creating shots for the First Order fleet attacking Hosnian Prime. I think it is possible to reuse and manipulate certain shots from TLJ to make it work (maybe even include a shot of Captain Cannady saying “Fire” or something).
Not only that, but it also needs to feel cohesive with the everything going on at Starkiller Base. With Restructured, at least blowing up Starkiller is tied to saving the Republic. If they don’t destroy it in time, the Republic is destroyed.

In my suggested version, the fleet leaves to prepare for their invasion before the Resistance mission even starts, and their only objective is to find Luke. I think we could see the fleet leave Starkiller right after Hux gives his speech, but we wouldn’t see that fleet again until they arrive at Hosnian Prime to destroy it. Even then, if we cut to that right after Han dies, will it have the same impact?

You get what I’m saying? They are sort of disconnected. I mean, they want to get the map to find Luke because they think he can stop the First Order, but this makes the Resistance feel like they’re two steps behind rather than just one. On the other hand, another benefit of the Fleet idea is that it would explain why Starkiller feels so empty when the Resistance arrives. And you could argue they are still tied together, since Hux can still decide in this version that they must attack the Republic AFTER the Resistance gets the crucial piece of the map, a step closer to Skywalker. Maybe a shot of the Star Destroyer(s) in hyperspace could be generated to intercut during the Starkiller battle. Maybe one of the pilots could jokingly say, “Where is everybody?” I guess the key might be to have a moment or two that reminds the audience that the fleet is on its way, and to create tension. Possibly redubbing that Resistance alien officer to say the Republic is assembling their fleet to help.

If it really couldn’t work there, you could possibly move the Hosnian destruction back to the second act (but keep what Restructured has, where Kylo’s Star Destroyer is above Takodana.) The only downside is that you would lose that deleted scene with Kor Sella and Leia, losing more political context in the film.

I really think the First Order fleet destroying Hosnian Prime would be a really cool sequence though if we can just figure out the structure of it.

Also, if we see the Dreadnought’s destructive force in TFA, it makes the battle of D’Qar feel more important because we know what these things are capable of.

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For the Hosnian attack by the fleet instead of Starkiller, Dreadnoughts do make sense, and they have those underside weapons for planetary bombardment which do fire a red shot.

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Exactly. We could generate a shot where there are two or three of them, then have a shot focusing on the guns charging, maybe firing, then cut to the shot of the Hosnian surface.

The only little gripe would be the intensity of the approaching laser of the Hosnian shot seems a lot larger than what the Dreadnought shoots, but if we cut it in a way were it seems all two/three dreadnoughts are firing together (either single rounds like in TLJ, or maybe a laser beam like the Death Star or the Battering Ram Canon instead) I think it would help justify that intensity.

And you wouldn’t necessarily need a shot of the laser impact the surface, because as the laser is approaching the camera and you hear the screams, you could hard cut back to Leia as she is reacting to the deaths.

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It sounds very good on paper, but I’m not sure about the feasibility. If done, it would be one of the most complex edits of all time.

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If the attack on Coruscant Hosnian Prime is too challenging, perhaps a more feasible solution involve no move against the Republic City at all. Instead, the First Order fleet could attack D`Qar?

There is already footage from TLJ. You could explain away any “charging” mentions as the Dreadnought.

Poe and Black Squadron wouldn’t go to Starkiller, although they would be prepping for an attack when the enemy fleet arrives. Instead the opening for TLJ will play alongside the conclusion to TFA. Han’s detonate charges cause the area around the base to explode, which is why Rey and Kylo are separated. It doesn’t destroy the entire planet.

After the destruction of the Dreadnought the First Order retreats. Then the Falcon returns to D’Qar and everybody celebrates for a short while.

This also permits TLJ to start at an unspecified time, as our first scene with the Resistance would instead be them in hyperspace. Poe wouldn’t be demoted although he can still have his character arc- the moment the Supremacy shows up he says he wants to jump in a cockpit and blow something up.

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I like that, but it leaves Poe with a very light story in TLJ.

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A New Captain
It has always bothered me that Captain Phasma appears in the The Last Jedi with no explanation. While Kylo and Hux are both shown to be on the move to escape Starkiller, Phasma just… escapes from the trash compactor? I’d be fine if they had at the very least mentioned “I see you got out of the dumpster” or something, but nope.

So, I decided to take things into my own hands. Introducing a new First Order Captain, sharing Phasma’s armor but bearing a purple stripe to distinguish.

alt text

He speaks with a male German accent to hammer home he is not Phasma. His first line is also different but besides that shares Phasma’s lines and characterization. I did a test with a text to speech, and I think it comes out quite well! Here is the video (apologies for the poor quality, and seeming jutter from cutting all shots not directly related to Phasma):

https://vimeo.com/316034386

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The idea of redubbing Phasma is nice, but isn’t the bigger issue the fact that the FO captain continues to be dispatched with relative ease? The new character might even exacerbate the issue, since it shows that Phasma probably didn’t escape Starkiller, further diminishing her power.

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NeverarGreat said:

The idea of redubbing Phasma is nice, but isn’t the bigger issue the fact that the FO captain continues to be dispatched with relative ease? The new character might even exacerbate the issue, since it shows that Phasma probably didn’t escape Starkiller, further diminishing her power.

I don’t think it’s necessary an issue, because I think Finn and Phasma have a complete arc in TFA. Perfect? No, it could use more in the beginning. But I never got the impression Finn vs Phasma was an ongoing fight. For Finn, the fight was more about the First Order in general, and his “moment to stand against the First Order” was against Kylo for Rey.

So come TLJ, I don’t think Finn vs Phasma needs to happen. A shame we lose an interesting character design, but keeping her around as a major player is uneeded.

So this Captain does very little besides have a few likes. I would cut out the battle with Finn, it has poor continuity and ends with a questionable BB8 rescue. Everyone else supposedly dies or is blocked off. It will go like: execution scene + hyperspace ram + a bunch of other scenes + Finn and Rose crashland on Crait.

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Okay. So I’ve thought about it some more, and before we try to tackle a very radical edit like removing Starkiller Base completely, let’s try to take some baby steps.

Personally, I wanted to come up with a way to keep the third act of TFA still relevant to finding Luke Skywalker. As Dom has said as well, we can still have the super laser, but we can also have them go to Starkiller to get the map. ROTJ and TPM both had multi-objective climaxes too so it can work.

So I’m going to suggest a way to make the map relevant to the third act, but still be compatible with TFA: Restructured. Think of it as a possible additional change for a Restructured V4, for example.

Let me lay out the necessary changes:

  • First, while not necessary, you could have Kylo Ren tell Poe that they have the rest of the map, recovered from the archives of the Empire, during his interrogation. Take the line from Rey’s interrogation, add the sound effect, and stick it in between two of Ren’s lines, around when he lifts his hand to dig into Poe’s mind. Like I said, not necessary but it is an option.

  • The next big change would be to the Resistance briefing. Basically, we will be removing the shield-lowering objective and replacing it with getting the map. I also want to mention that a few scenes prior, we would have heard Kylo tell Rey they have the rest of the map, so we would know it is on Starkiller.

  • Keep everything up to and including Poe’s line, “We’ll go in there and we’ll hit that oscillator with everything we got.”

  • First necessary cut would be Ackbar’s line, “But they have defensive shields our ships cannot penetrate.”

  • Cut Han’s line, “So we’ll disable the shields.”

  • Insert OTS of Han looking at Leia, who turns left to look at someone offscreen. We will be cutting this shot where it originally was, so we can reuse it here. During this shot, we will insert a new voiceover line of a Resistance officer asking, “Can we get [rest of] the map?” or simply, “What about the map?”

  • Han looks at Finn and says, “Kid, you worked there, what do you got?” Finn, “I can do it.” Han, “I like this guy.” Finn, “[CUT I can disable the shields] But I need to be there, on the planet.” Han, “We’ll get you there.”

  • Cut Leia’s line, “Han, how?” and cut Han’s line, “If I told you, you wouldn’t like it.”

  • Cut shot of Leia looking toward Poe (reuse for earlier), and cut Poe’s line, “So we disable the shields, take out the oscillator, and blow up their big gun.”

  • Keep shot of Chewbacca roaring in agreement. (With new context, he is agreeing with Han saying “We’ll get you there.”)

  • Keep shot of Poe saying, “All right, let’s go!” End of briefing scene.

  • Later when Han, Finn and Chewie are in hyperspace, cut Finn’s line, “How are we getting in?” and Han’s line about the shield having a fractional refresh rate. Start scene mid-conversation with, “We’re making our approach at lightspeed?” Later, Han says, “If we get any higher they’ll see us!” which provides the needed context: they did it to stay hidden.

  • Cut Han’s line, “Then how do you know how to disable the shields?” and Finn’s, “I don’t.” Instead, it goes from, “Sanitation?!” to “I’m just here to get Rey.” or, Finn could cut Han off around, “Then how do you know how-“ “I don’t…”

  • When they enter the base, Han says, “The longer we’re here, the less luck we’re going to have. The shields?” I’ve watched this a few times and Han barely opens his mouth when he says “the shields”, and he turns as he says it, so I honestly think if you just changed the audio to remove that piece of his line, people wouldn’t notice. Worst case, vfx could be use to deemphasize his mouth movement.

  • Once they capture Phasma, change the on-screen graphics to display the larger galaxy map with the small chunk missing from it for two or three shots. This will probably be the only major VFX work needed. Another benefit to this change for Phasma is that giving them an old map seems less offensive than lowering the entire planet’s defenses.

  • Cut Finn’s line, “Lower the shields!” You actually don’t see Finn’s mouth when he says this, so it should be as simple as removing the dialogue with no visual cuts necessary.

  • Replace line of Resistance officer saying “General, their shields are down!” with new voiceover of, “General, they’ve retrieved the map!” Which continues with, “Han did it! Send them in!” assuming Leia didn’t want to blow up Starkiller until they got the map. OR, this scene could be cut altogether and just start with Black Squadron jumping out of lightspeed. No communication between D’Qar and Black Squadron. Which would also remove the question about if they were just sitting in lightspeed. The one benefit to redubbing the officer is that we get an additional indication that Finn and Han now have the map, since we can’t see them grab a data drive without a brand new shot, but I don’t think it is 100% necessary. Could also start scene with “Han did it!” Han just sent Leia a text, I guess.

  • I don’t think an additional change is needed until they’re back on D’Qar. When Finn is being put on the gurney-tram, have a new voiceover for a Resistance Officer say, “He has the map!” or “Get the map to yada yada” Just another indication that the map made it to the Resistance, implying that Finn has a digital copy of the map on his person. You could even add a little Chewie growl if you wanted to imply the Officer is just translating, but not necessary.

  • I would suggest cutting the sad shots of Chewie and Leia mourning, which ties in to my next change. If you think about it these shots kind of drag out the ending anyway, and these little moments aren’t totally necessary either. And also, in this version they know they have the map, so they’re not sitting around waiting for R2 to wake up. They gotta move move move.

  • The last and other tough change is how to handle R2. This version doesnt use Nev’s great idea to visualize R2’s memory search, so we don’t see that in his first scene or his second. Instead, we see BB-8 roll up to still-sleeping R2, say something exciting which spurs R2 to wake up. Now, the implication is that BB-8 tells R2 they have the rest of the map, R2 wakes up all excited. C-3PO enters and says “R2! You’ve come back!”
    Cut, “You found what? How dare you call me that!” and “Find Master Luke how? Come, R2! We must go tell the others at once!”

  • Or, possibly rearrange that last line a bit to say, “Come, R2! We must find Master Luke.” Depends on if it sounds right. Earlier in the film, when they first get to D’Qar, 3PO does say, “locate Master Luke.” So the tone of that might work better too.

  • Cut the scene with Leia mourning and R2 and 3PO approaching her about “good news”

  • Now, we go from Rey and Leia’s hug, to BB-8 waking up R2, to R2 and BB-8 putting the map together. It would be nice to see R2 have the map inserted into him, but honestly I don’t think it would be something the audience would have even questioned if we didn’t see it theatrically, either.

Aaaaaaand, I think that’s it. So, to make this change work, you would just need 2-4 VFX shots, 2-3 new voiceovers, and some clever cutting and sound mixing.

I would like some second opinions, and I may have missed something, but I honestly think this is totally possible, and something I could see a lot of people wanting to use for their own edits. We don’t really lose anything from removing a planetary shield that we never even see in the movie, and this change has a lot more importance to the overall narrative while also removing deus ex astromech.

Whew, I’m going to sleep.

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That feels very complete in terms of the goal of Starkiller not being a weapon. But with that goal in mind, I still feel like we need to feel the threat of the First Order (ideally, IMO, juxtaposed with Kylo killing Han), and see some largescale destruction they cause such as the earlier idea to have a dreadnought assault, which would necessitate VFX.

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EddieDean said:

That feels very complete in terms of the goal of Starkiller not being a weapon. But with that goal in mind, I still feel like we need to feel the threat of the First Order (ideally, IMO, juxtaposed with Kylo killing Han), and see some largescale destruction they cause such as the earlier idea to have a dreadnought assault, which would necessitate VFX.

I figure that these changes would fit in the context of Restructured, meaning that the Starkiller is a weapon and does destroy the Republic at the climax of the film.

This is still an ambitious set of changes, but much more feasible and I think it would benefit the movie greatly. Particularly interesting in this change is the added tension of two goals, and the disastrous effects of prioritizing the search for Luke. In this new narrative the Resistance has essentially sacrificed the Republic capitol to find Luke and turn Kylo.

There are a lot of cuts to the final scene however, especially to Chewie and Leia mourning which are important after Han’s and the Republic’s death. What if Han and Finn got the map from Phasma but it was lost sometime after? If Han was carrying the plans, they would have fallen with him, but it might read as stupid that he would carry them out onto that bridge. Or Finn could have the map like you suggest, and there would be an insert shot of the plans falling out of his pocket when he is beaten by Kylo, sliced in half and half-buried in the snow. When we get back to the Resistance base and see Chewie and Leia in mourning, there could be a closeup of the map which is sliced in half and burned to uselessness. It would make Finn’s injury a dual defeat and require Rey to step up and find Luke on her own. Have a closeup of the sliced map next to Leia, then 3-PO could tell Leia that ‘Rey may have some much needed good news’. Cut to Rey watching over Finn as she has made up her mind.

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NeverarGreat said:
In this new narrative the Resistance has essentially sacrificed the Republic capitol to find Luke and turn Kylo.

I can’t help but agree. It’s a very clever write-up, but it would sacrifice the elegance of the original Restructured idea.

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Yes, EddieDean, that idea is in the context of Restructured! So it is Restructured, plus those additional ideas.

NeverarGreat said:
In this new narrative the Resistance has essentially sacrificed the Republic capitol to find Luke and turn Kylo.

I had considered that, and I think there are two simple ways you could alleviate that implication.

Option 1) You cut out the “Han did it! Send them in!” scene and just have Black Squadron show up to Starkiller a little later. So the implication that they waited for Han and Finn to get the map would be removed. (The Falcon is just faster than a squadron of X-Wings).

Option 2) Do Option 1, plus, slightly move forward Black Squadron’s arrival to decrease the gap of time between Han/Finn and Black Squadron’s arrivals.

So this would, I think, remove the implication that they essentially sacrificed the Republic for the map to Luke, since Black Squadron no longer waits for them to get the map. Also, I think keeping that brief scene isn’t necessary for a few other reasons, but it also would remove having to explain how the Resistance knows Han/Finn got the map. Now they’re just hoping they can get the map before they blow Starkiller up.

But, you would still keep the implication that is made in Restructured, that Han chose to kill time in order to try and save his son, which we have brought up and you also highlighted in your commentary, Hal.

Regarding the Chewie and Leia mourning shots, I don’t necessarily want to see them go, but I really don’t think they’re necessary. We saw Chewie scream out in pain when Han died, we saw Leia’s shock and later she embraces Rey in shared sorrow. I don’t think anyone would’ve questioned their absence if they weren’t there originally, and it kind of slows down the resolution of the film. But, if most people felt they were essential, then all you have to do is keep the shot of Chewie mourning where it is, and then have the Leia shot right after, but cut way before she turns to R2 and 3PO (unless someone can think of more relevant dialogue for 3PO). Simple as that, and I wouldn’t be against that either.

I do like the idea of Rey completing the map in her mind to get to Luke, too. It would take a little extra work to get that implication across, but I think it could work. For this, I just tried to come up with an idea to keep the primary map plot that drives the first two acts relevant to act three, with the least amount of changes necessary.

EDIT:
Word of the day: Implication

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A while ago I had a dream I was posting something here, and when I woke I was like, yeah, that’s a good idea I should post, but now I’ve forgotten what it was.

EddieDean said:

That feels very complete in terms of the goal of Starkiller not being a weapon. But with that goal in mind, I still feel like we need to feel the threat of the First Order (ideally, IMO, juxtaposed with Kylo killing Han), and see some largescale destruction they cause such as the earlier idea to have a dreadnought assault, which would necessitate VFX.

That’s where the dreadnoughts come in. Have one of them destroy Hosnian. Not the whole system, but lay waste to the city planet Jedha style.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

A while ago I had a dream I was posting something here, and when I woke I was like, yeah, that’s a good idea I should post, but now I’ve forgotten what it was.

Noisome, ain’t it?

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Can something be done to totally overhaul Han’s death? In the movie, he just walks into it when it’s bloody obvious he’s gonna die, and Kylo has no reason to kill him beyond being the villain and Han being a mentor figure.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Can something be done to totally overhaul Han’s death? In the movie, he just walks into it when it’s bloody obvious he’s gonna die, and Kylo has no reason to kill him beyond being the villain and Han being a mentor figure.

Wow.

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Han went onto that catwalk with a strong feeling that he would die, but he did it anyway because he loves his son.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Can something be done to totally overhaul Han’s death? In the movie, he just walks into it when it’s bloody obvious he’s gonna die, and Kylo has no reason to kill him beyond being the villain and Han being a mentor figure.

I disagree with the last part completely. Kylo has every reason to kill him, from needing to earn Snoke’s trust, to ‘completing his training’, and even his hatred of living in the shadow of a man whom he knows to be far more flawed than the rest of the galaxy believes.

But there is something wrong with the scene as you said, in that we know Han is going to die. I think it would have made for a much stronger scene if Kylo was so genuinely torn apart that he couldn’t kill Han when the moment came, but for some other event or agent to cause Han’s death in that scene.

Imagine if we knew in advance that Ben was more light side than dark, but kept up the charade to kill Snoke and unite the Republic and First Order in peace. Snoke would suspect that his student was false, and would demand proof of his devotion - the killing of someone he loved. Ben would be forced to choose between his vision of a unified galaxy and his own father, and in the moment he chooses his father. But at that moment the Starkiller fires and destroys the Republic capitol, killing many people whom he knew and secretly admired. The disturbance is so great that he ignites the saber without realizing it, killing his father and assuring him the trust of the Supreme Leader.

That would be the movie I’d like to see.

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