Definitely agree on the First Order civil war thing, or at the very least Hux attempting to seize power. The look Hux gave Kylo Ren at the end of TLJ said it all.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by “rediscovering families”? Do you mean Finn and Rose finding the families of stormtroopers? Rose and Finn finding members of their own families?
What’s up with the structure of the Battle of Exegol? At ~1 hour 49 minutes, we see Finn and Jannah choose to stay on the Star Destroyer to fire the cannon at the bridge. They don’t appear again until ~2 hours - 10 minutes later, after the entire Ben/Rey team-up sequence, Rey’s Jedi telepathy, and Palpatine’s death - when they fire the gun. I get that the idea is to synchronise the big victory of both battles, but it’s no wonder that I lost track of what was going on in the theatre! I’m looking for ways to restructure it but I doubt I’ll spot any great insights that J.J. Abrams didn’t.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by “rediscovering families”? Do you mean Finn and Rose finding the families of stormtroopers? Rose and Finn finding members of their own families?
Yeah one of those choices at least. I would have thought the second one personally.
I’m new to this thread, and I’m not sure if this belongs here, but I just had this idea about how Ben’s redemption works thematically. At first I was a little confused as to why they chose to revisit Kylo’s confrontation with Han (who had already failed to bring him back to the light) instead of having him meet the ghost of Anakin (the person he idolized most). I was also slightly confused when I read the Rise of Skywalker novelization and saw how much it downplayed what Leia was doing when she died: I had assumed from the movie that she had died of force-exhaustion after using all of her strength to contact Ben, but the book says that she had been using the force to prolong her life (after being injured on the Raddus), then simply decided to stop, causing Ben to sense her death. This would mean that Leia had nothing to do with Han’s appearance and that it really was just a memory/hallucination. If true, this would actually make a lot of sense, because the Last Jedi comic ends by saying not that Kylo is irredeemable, but that the only person capable of saving him is himself. Based on what he says to Luke in TLJ, Kylo clearly expects other people to try to persuade him away from the dark side. He even seems really surprised when Rey leaves him on Kef-Bir instead of offering her hand. Perhaps Kylo Ren’s evil is like a more extreme version of when a child acts out because they want attention. So rather than sending a telepathic message, Leia is communicating something symbolic: nobody is going to come “save” Ben from the dark side; he has to decide to do the right thing. I actually like that a lot more than my original interpretation.
You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?
This Daisy Ridley interview has some amusing tidbits for those who are as morbidly fascinated by this movie’s troubled production as I am. Bear in mind that it is an interview with children for a children’s hospital though.
“I hope they release the bloopers. We had to do this thing where we would do the scene with dialogue, and then it was helpful for JJ and Maryann (our editor) to get bits of us not speaking - for trailers and stuff - so a few times we had to do the scenes without dialog and we would all just wet ourselves laughing.” at 21:30
“Me and JJ had had a conversation where I was not the granddaughter [of Palpatine], and then we had a conversation a couple of weeks later where I was.” at 17:00
I also recently noticed that Chris Terrio says in the BTS documentary that “the hope at the beginning of the film that Sidious articulates is that the dyad will come together on the dark side” which lines up with one of the earlier leaked plots of the film, but doesn’t even vaguely reflect the final movie, where Palpatine doesn’t know of the dyad until very late in the movie.
It’s a shame Disney will never release any additional footage or Rinzler-esque books - but then again, maybe it’s the fact that big mouse doesn’t want you to know that makes it interesting.
Must say that I do find all the hate this film gets to be really suprising. When the Prequels ended and George Lucas released The Clone Wars movie, enthusiasm for Star Wars just seemed really low. Episodes 1, 2 and 3 seemed to be universally disliked due to their over reliance on CGI and watching those films on broadcast TV didn’t do much to affect this viewpoint either - bluescreen nightmare, especially AOTC and TPM.
It’s worth clarifying that I’m the type of person who looks for the positive in everything and with the prequels, I looked past the issues and focused on the many great things about them. Although it’s a sad fact that despite how many millions they grossed, criticism of them was pretty vocal. Remember those fans with Internet access grew up with the originals (in the same way we’re now seeing people exude positivity about the prequels because they grew up with it)
So when Disney purchased Lucasfilm they had a job on their hands and to recapture the essence of the originals they went back to as many practical effects as they could. Even if something was CGI, they didn’t have unbelievable camera angles of super feats (Anakin jumping on Zam Wessels speeder was always a face palm for me…it should have pulled his arms off).
The shots of the Millenium Falcon despite being CGI, always looked real and the film was a rousing success. A return to traditional Star Wars where those fans who got their parents to buy all the tickets and memrobilia in the 1980’s and then paid for tickets and got their kids into it in the 00’s - but were left oh so disapointed with the prequels, now had a film that ticked all the nostaliga boxes.
So everything was set up then, essentially Rey was Luke, Kylo Ren is Vader and the Empire is the New Order. We even have a new Emperor in Snoke.
I knew it, others knew it and we knew Episode 8 was the middle of a new trilogy so why Rian Johnson decided to re-set this universe is mind boggling. Kathleen gets a lot of stick for meddling but for me she should have done more and queried why the director of The Last Jedi decided to make such radical choices.
How they didn’t have a blue print for the sequels I find baffling. By all means have different directors bringing something different in style but to not have an overall plan was shocking.
The Last Jedi just…well it isn’t a bad film and it understands Star Wars but to re-set the universe in the middle of a 3 movie plan was bizarre.
So enter Rise of Skywalker, the Universe is now scorched and probably worse than when the Clone Wars movie came out. After the rise of Episode 7 it was to be a false dawn, the universe for a brief time burned brightly than it has for years and it was like 1977 all over again, then Episode 8 came.
But JJ knocked it out the park again, he once again managed to condense his overall plan into 1 film and despite Rian Johnson doing what he did in TLJ, JJ even incorporates that film into this too. The ultimate respect.
The original aesthetic is back, references to the prequels are incorporated and literally it appeals to everyone - Mission Impossible of bringing everything back on track after TLJ is a success and if truth be told, Palpatine was always far more of a villain than Snoke so hurrah to Rian Johnson for killing off Snoke.
The problem for ROS and indeed the sequels in general have been YouTubers realised that bad news gets hits and posting Industry lies, no matter how outlandish no longers gets ‘Forum replies’ but now actual monetary benefits.
Suddenly this cancer spreads to Facebook groups too and pretty much, this forum is pretty much exempt to it thankfully. But whereas the Internet wasn’t the overall conesus of the Prequels back in the day, it’s also a case that peoples view of the sequels isn’t the hyperbolic Kathleen Kenedy-Disney-Hating-frothing-at-the-mouth-mike-zeroh viewpoint either.
Personally I think it’s a great film.
Having just watched TROS, Star Wars the episodic saga is just over. The episodic saga is just emotionally and visually and artisticly ruined. Over. Done.
I havent watched the Original Trilogy in over three years now - a record for me. I just have no feelings left for OT and ST. Knowing the fate of Luke, Han and Leia, and the lack of importance to their actions, has just totally killed so much joy. Oh my… Im actually just offended and pissed of.
WHAT HAVE I DONE?
The Ancient Lore
Kenobi: A Star Wars Story
Harry Potter Revisited
Game of Thrones Film Edits
Titanic Restructured
… and more.
Don’t let the sequels ruin your enjoyment of the rest of the saga. Just ignore them. Many people do.
You can headcanon whatever you want. No need to be “offended”. There’s already another entire fleshed-out Star Wars continuity where Luke goes on to be cloned, marries a ginger, fights aliens, has his nephew turn to the dark side and takes part in a second galactic civil war (wait a second), etc. Or you can just ignore both EUs.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be so upset. Even if you don’t like the sequels, you can just ignore them. Just because Disney made some movies you didn’t like doesn’t mean that the original movies are “RUINED FOREVER” or whatever hyperbolic fanboys like to say. Embrace the headcanon, enjoy the parts of Star Wars you like and abandon the rest. Almost every fan does that to some degree.
My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX
If you’re anything like me, you’re bound to oscillate between apathy & antipathy for the next five years before settling left-of-Imperial-Center.
The Sequel Trilogy in the nutshell:
(Kathleen Kennedy is attempting to summon the sequel trilogy with Grogu’s power as Grogu is trapped in a small cube)
Kathleen: Good! Very Good! Just a little bit more!
(Just then, George Lucas, Rick Callum, Dave Filoni, Rosario Dawson, Luke, Bo-Katan, Ahsoka, and Genndy Tarkovsky arrived)
George Lucas: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
Kathleen Kennedy: George, what a splendid surprise! Observe the premiere of the Sequel Trilogy in mere moments!
George Lucas: Shut that down IMMEDIATLY!
Dave Filoni: Oh no you don’t!
(Dave Filoni charges at Kathleen pushing her to the wall.)
Kathleen: How dare you!
(Grogu cries trapped in the cage)
Rick Callum: Look! It’s Grogu!
Dave Filoni: Grogu!
(Dave tries to touch the box that Grogu was sealed in but it zapped Dave Filoni. The portal is reaching to 90%, everyone is in horror!)
Kathleen Kennedy: YES, It’s the Sequel Trilogy!
George Lucas: Turn that off now!
Kathleen: Why would I do that? This is exactly what you wanted!
George Lucas: I never wanted the version of this! Are you trying to ruin my franchise?!
(Kathleen gasped in horror due to what George Lucas had yelled at her. Genndy and Dave looks at the crate.)
Genndy: Bo-Katan, use shadow blaster!
(Bo-Katan uses shadow blaster at the crate and the crate flies off)
Dave Filoni: Luke, use IRON BLADE.
(Luke uses iron blade to cut the crate in half freeing Grogu)
(With Kennedy’s machine turned off, the portal vanishes)
Kathleen: NOOOOOOOOO!!!
(Rick smiles that Grogu is saved)
Rick Callum: Grogu!
Dave Filoni: You didn’t get hurt, did you?
(Grogu smiles and gurgle in happiness. Suddenly, Grogu started glowing. Dave, Genndy, Rick, Rosario, and George are in shock. The power of Kennedy’s machine turns on by Grogu’s evolution, Kathleen looks at the meter and looks at the portal which reappeared. The others are witnessed to Grogu’s evolution. Grogu evolved into a tadpole-like chrysalis)
Dave Filoni: All of the sudden, he got smaller.
Rick Callum: It’s like a chrysalis.
George Lucas: So, what just happened?
(Rosario started researching on the chrysalis)
Rosario Dawson: Insufficiant data! Unable to determine! Impossible!
(The Portal suceeds in opening. Everyone are in horror and Kathleen smiles wickedly laughing triumphantly)
Kathleen: Finally, there’s incredible dummy practices!
Genndy: Yes! There it is!
Dave Filoni: And something’s coming out of it!
(Out of the portal came a horrifying fusion of a Myknock, Zillo Beast, Sarlacc, Wampa, Oppra Sea Killer, Reek, Acklay, and Nexu which has the titles of the sequel trilogy on its forehead. Rick is shocked giving him the flashbacks that it’s the same one that captured him. He screamed horrifyingly.)
George: Rick!!!
Genndy: Isn’t that?
Kathleen: Yes, it’s the great sequel trilogy!
(George Lucas looks at this abomination in awed)
Kathleen: Well, George…
(George snaps out of it and looks at Kathleen angrily)
Kathleen: Don’t forget that I’m the one who fulfilled your dreams! I’m the one who suceeded in summoning the mighty trilogy!
(George Lucas is so furious at Kathleen, he would kill her)
Kathleen: Observe its beauty and magnificent!
George Lucas: Stop it, Kathleen Kennedy! Open your eyes!
(Kathleen walks into the abomination)
Kathleen: I’ve been waited 6 long years! I thought of little else but you.
(The abomination hits Kennedy to the wall)
George Lucas: Cade, dazzling gleam!
(George Lucas summons Cade out of his card. Cade uses dazzling gleam to charge at the abomination but it grabs Cade and absorb her powers.)
George Lucas: Cade, return!
(He uses the same card to send Cade back to it. The abomination started to multiply itself with fake clones)
Genndy: George, defend yourself! All right Anduin, use Light Slash!
(Genndy summons Anduin Wrynn from WoW out of his card and uses light slash from his sword thus making the fakes of the abomination and the real one gone in the grey dusty cloud. Is the abomination gone? No! It spews purple liquid at Anduin thus pushing him and Genndy to the wall)
Rick Callum/Dave Filoni: GENNDY!
Dave Filoni: Quick, Luke! Use force lightning!
(Luke jumps high and uses force lightning in mid air but the abomination absorbs the power and hits Luke causing him to fall. Dave FIloni rushes to catch Luke)
Dave Filoni: LUKE!
(Luke landed on Dave Filoni. The abomination flies slowly straight toward Rick Callum. But, George Lucas covers Rick.)
George Lucas: Rick!
(Genndy comes in front of the abomination)
Genndy: Look! If you want to take him, you have to go through me!
(Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, and Anduin standing side by side facing the abomination. The abomination stops coming towards Genndy is opens its mouth screeching as it head towards Genndy. Lucas pushes Genndy off and the abomination snarls and grabs George Lucas causing everyone else in horror. Jon Faveru and the Make-Up artists of the Mandalorian who turns Rosario into Ahsoka rushed in but they were too late. Genndy rushes to George Lucas who is being captive by the abomination as it goes back to the portal.)
Genndy: George!
(Genndy stops as he watches the machine being about to blow up, but it blew up! George Lucas looks at Rick Callum one last time as the abomination returns to its realm with him.)
Rick: George? George?
(The Abomination and George disappeared into the portal and the portal seals off into nothingness.)
Rick: Oh no! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSS!!!
(Everyone is in horror, even Kathleen. Rick knelt in insomniac. Genndy Tarkovsky looks down at Rick.)
Genndy Tarkovsky: No, Callum!
(He rushes to the horrified Rick Callum. His arm touches Rick’s shoulder)
Genndy Tarkovsky: Rick, are you okay?
(Rick is still in shock)
Rick Callum: Look what disney had done!
(Genndy growls in a bit of fury. Ahsoka walks at Callum rubbing her lekkus at his arm. Dave Filoni in shock knew what Kathleen did.)
Dave Filoni: It kidnapped George.
Please note:
Kathleen Kennedy = Faba
George Lucas = Lusamine
Dave Filoni = Ash Ketchum
Rick Callum = Lillie
Genndy Tarkovsky = Gladion
Ahsoka = Snowy
Bo-Katan = Umbreon
Grogu = Nebby
Rosario Dawson = Rotom Dex
Cade Skywalker = Clefable
Anduin Wrynn = Silvally
Jon Faveru = Burnett
The make-up artists who turns Rosario to Ahsoka = Wicke
The abomination = UB01
I’ve been watching theater audience reaction videos (mostly positive ones). How much do you want to bet that half of the people in the theaters are part of that damned “Fandom Menace” group, ready to return to their caves, go on a computer, and insult fans of the film, while also sending death threats to the cast & crew, and creating videos on YouTube (with some of the dumbest, clickbaity thumbnails I’ve ever scene)? That’s the scary part about all of this. When you go out to a Star Wars event, you never no if the fellow fans beside you are part of the toxicity. They may seem decent on the outside, but in actuality, they are cold blooded monsters, hellbent on spreading their miserable points of view all over the planet. It’s hard to trust other fans…
YUB NUB!
I’ve been watching theater audience reaction videos (mostly positive ones). How much do you want to bet that half of the people in the theaters are part of that damned “Fandom Menace” group, ready to return to their caves, go on a computer, and insult fans of the film, while also sending death threats to the cast & crew, and creating videos on YouTube (with some of the dumbest, clickbaity thumbnails I’ve ever scene)? That’s the scary part about all of this. When you go out to a Star Wars event, you never no if the fellow fans beside you are part of the toxicity. They may seem decent on the outside, but in actuality, they are cold blooded monsters, hellbent on spreading their miserable points of view all over the planet. It’s hard to trust other fans…
I keep telling myself that those kind of fans are in the minority and it’s unlikely I’ll ever meet one. They really are the worst.
“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”
TROS is far from perfect, but so are most star wars movie. It has pacing issues for sure, & i wish Palpatine was inserted into Episode 7 & 8, but take a look at the prequels, alot of what we love came from the expanded media.
I would love to edit flashes of palpatine into the 2 prior movies but other than that i can connect with the movie, it feels like a 2019 version of Return of the Jedi & i’m ok with that.
My love for star wars has stayed strong, and i am excited to see the parts be put into place to improve the movies.
That’s the scary part about all of this. When you go out to a Star Wars event, you never no if the fellow fans beside you are part of the toxicity (…) It’s hard to trust other fans…
This isn’t unique to Star Wars, there are good and bad people who have the same interests, the commonality itself shouldn’t be a replacement for a personality judgement, with a net as wide as something so globally accepted as Star Wars it only magnifies a pre existing issue, an unfortunate social reality. We may like to think because we share tastes we might share similar ideals, yet because everyone is different (which we even recognize in the variety of our own interpretations even when it comes to the exact subject that joins us) we will find people all along the spectrum that stand for everything you are against. All I can say is don’t judge a book by its cover. Love people for how they treat people, not for what they like.
“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV
I think I just realized, when Luke says “if you don’t face Palpatine, it will be the end of the Jedi” he doesn’t mean “Palpatine will destroy the Jedi unless you fight him” he means “You won’t be a true Jedi unless you confront your fear.”
You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?
Yes. It would’ve been nice if Luke had just said that instead.
Having re-watched the movie recently for the first time in awhile, I can safely say I really love it. Now, it isn’t perfect, (no SW movie is), but it is still really good. I don’t hate Palpatine coming back at all, in fact I quite like it, I just wish that it was part of the outline back in 2014 so it could be hinted at in VII and VIII, but that’s entirely wishful thinking with hindsight. As mentioned by others on this thread, Exegol and zombie Palpatine are fantastic, and Snoke being an artificial creation of Palpatine isn’t a bad explanation by any means, better than not even being mentioned like in CT’s script. Rey being a Palpatine is fine, I didn’t like her being a nobody anyway, plus pointing out the reshot scenes is fun.
My biggest complaint is probably the cut scenes honestly. Unlike other heavily re-edited movies like Suicide Squad, the chopped up footage isn’t very extremely noticeable here, and alot of the cuts feel fairly natural or have creative transitions. The first act is by far the weakest and is also the most heavily edited, so that makes sense. Animatronic Maz doesn’t look the best, compared to CG Maz she moves far slower, but it is impressive the amount of detail they were able to give her.
Overall I’d give this movie an 8/10, it’s a fantastic end to the Saga and Sequel Trilogy, and is just a fantastic movie in general. It suffers from over-editing, but not to a horrible extent and the film still manages to carry itself. The characters are charismatic as hell, the locations are vibrant and more creative than in JJ’s other SW outing, and the villains are definitely more competent and threatening than in Episode VIII. Here’s to hoping we someday get some deleted scenes so we can make an unofficial extended edition.
Use the Force, Joh Yowza.
Luke did say confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.
He also was placing his faith in Rey.
He called her the Last Jedi in the last movie. Those were always words of hope and belief not spoken without purpose. The Rebellion was Reborn, and now the Jedi are reborn. And next the Republic needs to be reborn. Though i hope not called the New New Republic.
Obviously it will be the Neew Republic.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I prefer the Newer Republic.
Galactic Alliance would be a cute nod.
This guy has been making custom sabers for years. Can you imagine how cool it would have been to have a brief scene where Rey fixes Luke’s saber and reveals these inner workings?
Sure, they would have had to buy one of these, but 7,000$ would have been lunch money for TROS.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)