The Random Star Wars Pics & GIFs Thread — Page 61

ZkinandBonez said:

Maybe I’ll get crap for asking about this; but how exactly are Gungans supposed to be racist?
Or maybe I should rather ask; who are they supposed to be stereotypes of? I get why people complain about the Neimodians, as well as Watto. But what exactly are the Gungans supposed to be similar too?

I’m honestly curious about this, because I feel like I’m missing some connection here that everyone else seems to find quite obvious.

I had this same question myself not long ago, because I just didn’t really get it. I’ll try to find the responses to it, but the gist was that in the OT, all aliens spoke alien languages whereas in the PT, they just spoke English in what are generally accepted as racial stereotype accents.

Gungans (Jar Jar in particular) are said to be based on black stereotypes.

JEDIT: Id done beat me to it.

Darth Id said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Maybe I’ll get crap for asking about this; but how exactly are Gungans supposed to be racist?
Or maybe I should rather ask; who are they supposed to be stereotypes of? I get why people complain about the Neimodians, as well as Watto. But who exactly are the Gungans supposed to be similar too?

I’m honestly curious about this, because I feel like I’m missing some connection here that everyone else seems to find quite obvious.

Creole-/Caribbean-/African-Americans
If you are genuinely so-very un-racist that you fail to appreciate that, I applaud you.

Well, I live in Norway, and I know very little about Caribbean culture. I also had no idea what Creole was until you mentioned it and I googled it.

Here are some of the replies to when I asked (be sure to expand that last one):

ATMachine said:

Uh, yes? He’s a money-grubbing businessman/slave-owner who has a huge nose and lives on a desert planet where he gambles in chariot races straight out of Ben-Hur.

TV’s Frink said:

We’ve had this discussion before, and not just with Watto…there’s Jar Jar, the Nemoidians…some people see it, some people don’t. Some who don’t see it argue furiously that it’s not true, for some reason.

ATMachine said:

Nah, it’s not necessarily weird to not notice those things – but it’s definitely the sort of racial coding that ought to be avoided when writing.

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by other non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)

TV’s Frink said:

Tyrphanax said:

ATMachine said:

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)

Well I mean, to play Devil’s Advocate here, I would imagine Neimoidians might not speak English as their native tongue and they do have very odd mouths so I would assume they would speak English pretty awkwardly.

http://www.davechen.net/2012/02/racism-stereotypes-phantom-menace-star.html

In a 1999 article for the Boston Review, Alan Stone corroborates Gottlieb’s take on things. He also identifies one of the reasons why Lucas got himself in trouble: he made the aliens English-speaking. Unlike aliens from the previous Star Wars films (see: Chewbacca, the Ewoks, all the people in the Cantina scene), the aliens in this film spoke our language and had accents and other characteristics reminiscent of the ones found in ethnic stereotypes:

What has made my student and many other cultists of his generation feel betrayed is the new ingredient in Lucas’s recipe: aliens who, unlike any of the previous exotic life forms, suggest racist stereotypes. The evil henchmen in this story seem to be Fu Manchu style Asians, and the primitive Gungan people who live under the sea suggest old Hollywood stereotypes of African-Americans.

I’m not sure I personally see it as intentionally meant to be racist, but it was certainly a poor choice.

Tyrphanax said:

Here are some of the replies to when I asked (be sure to expand that last one):

ATMachine said:

Uh, yes? He’s a money-grubbing businessman/slave-owner who has a huge nose and lives on a desert planet where he gambles in chariot races straight out of Ben-Hur.

TV’s Frink said:

We’ve had this discussion before, and not just with Watto…there’s Jar Jar, the Nemoidians…some people see it, some people don’t. Some who don’t see it argue furiously that it’s not true, for some reason.

ATMachine said:

Nah, it’s not necessarily weird to not notice those things – but it’s definitely the sort of racial coding that ought to be avoided when writing.

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by other non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)

TV’s Frink said:

Tyrphanax said:

ATMachine said:

I guess it didn’t bother GL though (cf. the Neimoidians, whose voice actors were deliberately told to mimic line readings by non-English-speaking actors saying the lines phonetically.)

Well I mean, to play Devil’s Advocate here, I would imagine Neimoidians might not speak English as their native tongue and they do have very odd mouths so I would assume they would speak English pretty awkwardly.

http://www.davechen.net/2012/02/racism-stereotypes-phantom-menace-star.html

In a 1999 article for the Boston Review, Alan Stone corroborates Gottlieb’s take on things. He also identifies one of the reasons why Lucas got himself in trouble: he made the aliens English-speaking. Unlike aliens from the previous Star Wars films (see: Chewbacca, the Ewoks, all the people in the Cantina scene), the aliens in this film spoke our language and had accents and other characteristics reminiscent of the ones found in ethnic stereotypes:

What has made my student and many other cultists of his generation feel betrayed is the new ingredient in Lucas’s recipe: aliens who, unlike any of the previous exotic life forms, suggest racist stereotypes. The evil henchmen in this story seem to be Fu Manchu style Asians, and the primitive Gungan people who live under the sea suggest old Hollywood stereotypes of African-Americans.

I’m not sure I personally see it as intentionally meant to be racist, but it was certainly a poor choice.

Yeah, I definitely see why people are bothered by these characters/aliens.
As one of the quotes above says, the Neimoidians’ accents kind of make sense, but they do end up sounding a bit too familiar for some people’s comfort. So Lucas’ lazy writing for the PT definitely had/hhas some bad side-effects.

The Gungan controversy (apart from Jar Jar being annoying as hell) eluded me since I wasn’t familiar with the context.

Darth Id said:

That’s okay.
I for one have no idea what a “Norway” is.
Maybe some kinda horned sea-beast?
Too lazy to google, though.

Erm, sure, why not.

(EDIT: Are you thinking about a Narwhal?)

If someone took the time to re-dub all the Gungans with proper English, as well as re-animate Jar Jar to be less goofy, then I think the Gungans could be a pretty interesting part of TPM.

When I look at some of the Doug Chiang concept art for Jar Jar and the Gungas I can’t help but feel that they were a real missed opportunity.
Then again, “many good and interesting ideas poorly executed”, is a pretty decent summary of the PT in general.

ZkinandBonez said:

If someone took the time to re-dub all the Gungans with proper English, as well as re-animate Jar Jar to be less goofy, then I think the Gungans could be a pretty interesting part of TPM.

When I look at some of the Doug Chiang concept art for Jar Jar and the Gungas I can’t help but feel that they were a real missed opportunity.
Then again, “many good and interesting ideas poorly executed”, is a pretty decent summary of the PT in general.

Not surprising given that this version of Jar Jar is derived from the Green Martian-esque character of Han Solo (don’t let the name fool you, he’s a burly alien sidekick in the vein of Chewbacca) from the 1974 rough draft.

Actually, now I’m rather scared of Gungans. Specifically their weaponry.

I think these two guys are way more creepy then Jar Jar, am I racist?

DuracellEnergizer said:

Binks and Nass suck utter eggs. The remaining Gungans are tolerable, IMO, especially since they don’t have as much dialogue.

Captain Tarpals is quite the handsome fellow, for a Gungan.


He also isn’t a super klutz like Binks. I want a spin off where he and Ric form the Attractive Army.

Forbidden Planet meets 2001 meets Star Wars.

SilverWook said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Binks and Nass suck utter eggs. The remaining Gungans are tolerable, IMO, especially since they don’t have as much dialogue.

Captain Tarpals is quite the handsome fellow, for a Gungan.

I’ve wondered why he has catfish tendrils when none of the others do.
And why did Boss Nas look like a different species altogether?

Species variation? Gungans may have lived far apart from each other in Naboo’s distant past. What I’ve read is Gungans get kind of bloaty as they age, which means Jar Jar might not even recognizable if he ever turns up in the sequels. 😉

ray_afraid said:

SilverWook said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Binks and Nass suck utter eggs. The remaining Gungans are tolerable, IMO, especially since they don’t have as much dialogue.

Captain Tarpals is quite the handsome fellow, for a Gungan.

I’ve wondered why he has catfish tendrils when none of the others do.
And why did Boss Nas look like a different species altogether?

I’m pretty sure they just got lazy when it was time to animate the background Gungans, which is why they all kind of look like Jar Jar.

Boss Nass, if you imagine him being thinner, does look like a Gungan. Him looking like a different species might have to do with the Gungans having very long necks, pluss those frog lips. Once you “flaten” those features they suddenly look less Gungan-like.

The EU had an explanation for this (of course) wherein there are two different types of Gungan, one being the Jar Jar kind and the other being the Boss Nass kind.

Tyrphanax said:

The EU had an explanation for this (of course) wherein there are two different types of Gungan, one being the Jar Jar kind and the other being the Boss Nass kind.

But why does Boss Nass need and explanation? He’s just fatter than the other Gungans. Tarpals on the other hand actually has a unique feature.

ZkinandBonez said:

Tyrphanax said:

The EU had an explanation for this (of course) wherein there are two different types of Gungan, one being the Jar Jar kind and the other being the Boss Nass kind.

But why does Boss Nass need and explanation? He’s just fatter than the other Gungans. Tarpals on the other hand actually has a unique feature.

Because that’s how the old EU (slightly less so the new EU) worked, everything had to have a detailed exacting explanation even if they had to retcon or shoehorn it in. Usually they were dumb.