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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 366

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1: Why do the Separatists want Amidala dead if she is the one opposing a military response to the Separatists, and as such is the closest thing to an ally that they have?

It’s made pretty clear that it’s just Nute Gunray seeking petty revenge for the events of the last film.

4: Why does the Republic not know about the army that they ostensibly ordered? Did the cloners not bother to get any confirmation or send any updates?

While it is somewhat unlikely, the idea of it getting lost in bureaucracy over a decade is humorously plausible.

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Inspired by the opening prologue of Terry Brook’s novelization of The Phantom Menace. I wanted to experiment with creating the first race between Anakin and Sebulba, with Anakin losing.

Temp VFX with audio yet to be worked on

https://streamable.com/1sfvd0

“Get over violence, madness and death? What else is there?”

Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.

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 (Edited)

Nice work paja, I am intrigued what your version of the second race would look like, given what you have cut.

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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Now I was hitting this thread, because I wanted to ask a question. I spliced together a short holo-message of Dooku giving a speech about the republics downfall and the failure of the Jedi. The idea was to give the separatist more of an identity and to give Dooku a proper introduction.

The sound file is about 30 seconds long and it sounds a lot better with reverb to it, so I was thinking about adding a big hologram of Dooku to the deleted senate scene after the first attempt on Padmé.

However I fear that my footage might not be enough and therefore I was thinking about adding a shot of a bar or club, similar to place Zam is hiding, where the speech would run on a screen. This would also allow for a reaction shot or two of bystanders hearing the speech and that leads me to the question I wanted to ask:

Does anybody know a scene from another (sci-fy) movie that could serve as a template for this?

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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More radical, what if the hologram was part of the wrap-up for Episode I? What if the end was slightly less triumphant, more of a pyric victory, and the hologram let us know that the whole thing had been noticed negatively by people outside the Episode I story.

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Can you point to any bits that stood out in particular?
I always struggle to judge the quality of the audio, when it is a heavily reconstructed dialogue like this one. The problem is, that you are hearing it 200 times over the course of assembling it and by that time you understand every word it says, no matter the small shifts in volume, color and pronunciation.
Quite similar in fact, to how you learn to understand a particular accent and then it is hard to judge how comprehensive your new bit of dialogue really is.

Your thread will make a fine addition to my collection.

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“Coruscant” “mistake on Naboo” and “disappointed” all sound off.

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Working on something, wanted to share with you guys. My edit combines TPM and AotC, and Dooku is not officially a Sith until the victory on Geonosis. Here is a scene I’ve worked on for him getting “dubbed” as Tyranus. Still need to work on lip syncing and removing background audio, but let me know what you think!

https://mega.nz/file/YLlySTJC#dvzMg56vrJEPLrdYzaoVR02Ew2ovobtGW2zuZyBS2Oc

I like you, let us burn things together.

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It’s not convincing. The establishing shot is excellent, but the subsequent shot has a canted angle that doesn’t align with the Prequels’ cinematography, and the fact that it’s not cutting from the establishing shot straight to the speakers is super weird. The lipsync is also completely off, while it’s very obvious the audio is taken from Vader’s knighting. I respect the attempt but it doesn’t quite work.

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Thanks for the critique. I think I’ll work on rotoscoping a Dooku scene, then lipsync it so that it matches. Also, Vader’s knighting is not in my edit, so hopefully the reused dialogue won’t be an issue.

I like you, let us burn things together.

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 (Edited)

When we will have the technology to replace all the original voices with artificially created voices that sound exactly like those of the original actors (and thus basically redoubing all the dialogue), then I would like to bring these radical changes to the plot of the Trilogy:

  • Making attachment partially accepted by the Jedi, thus turning Anakin and Padmé’s relationship into something public, of which everyone is aware.
  • Changing the reasons behind Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side.
  • During the fight on Mustafar, let Obi-Wan try to bring Anakin back.
  • Making the dialogue more consistent with the Original Trilogy (Anakin wanting to give is son his lightsaber, etc).
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On that last one, the New Canon Cut I think puts in a line from Anakin discussing passing his lightsaber on to Luke, it’s well done all things considered.

I like you, let us burn things together.

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I don’t see what’s wrong with Obi-Wan lying about that given the circumstances.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I disagree.

Well, I believe the majority of the fanbase would prefer Anakin saying something about giving his saber to his child in Episode III. Any attempt that sucessfully manage to make this work in a fan edit is generally well received, since this increase Anakin’s character.

Besides that, the fact that this Obi-Wan line isn’t adressed in any way before or after he said it, in any movie, just make this fact weird. Why the lie about Vader killing Anakin is adressed in ROTJ and that one, not? The audience then presupposes that that one is a fact, and then after ROTS we discover that the whole story about Anakin giving his saber to his child is just one more lie from Obi-Wan. This just makes we question how many more lies Ben told in the movies, a man who was supposedly meant to be a honorable jedi…

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I know I’ve been very vocal about my opposition to prequel edits that try to preserve the ESB reveal (I think the saga is best when watched in release order), but NeverarGreat made a suggestion in a prequel rewrite thread that I think is the best way it could possibly be pulled off. Basically, the idea is that Anakin’s turn to darkness is more subtle and politically motivated, and Obi-Wan has another, already evil apprentice who serves as the main villain of Episode III. At the end of the movie, both Anakin and the evil apprentice appear to die, leaving the audience to wonder which apprentice became Vader (and hopefully think it’s the one who isn’t Anakin).

So, I figured the idea was neat enough that I should figure out how to implement it in an actual edit. Giving Anakin a less extreme turn was fairly easy (several edits have already gone down that route), but contriving an evil apprentice that never existed in the actual movies was much more difficult. That is, until I came to a realization: General Grievous could be turned into Obi-Wan’s apprentice.

I know that sounds like the dumbest idea ever, but just hear me out. Several editors have already come up with the idea of redubbing Grievous into Darth Maul seeking revenge, and the way they approached it is very similar to the way I want to approach Grievous. An old enemy from Obi-Wan’s past was severely injured in a fight with him years ago, and as a result, they were implanted into a cyborg body. My idea is basically the same thing, just with Grievous having an additional reason to hold a grudge against Kenobi.

Throughout the movie, Grievous’s voice and speech patterns would be altered to sound much more similar to Vader: a deep baritone with semi-British touches, accompanied by flowery language and the same ways of referring to characters as Vader (Kenobi as “Obi-Wan”, Sidious as “Master”). This, accompanied with toning down the Vader-isms in Christensen’s Anakin performance, should hopefully make the audience automatically assume that Vader is Grievous in a new body, especially when Obi-Wan refers to him as a pupil that turned evil.

So, is this a good idea, or the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard? I’m not sure, but I think I just cracked the code to “saving the reveal”.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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It’s an interesting idea, but one that comes with a host of problems to solve.

1: How would Obi-wan be made to acknowledge that Grevious is his prior student? I suppose some introduction could be made during the crawl since that is also the case in the theatrical version, but it would need to be buttressed by dialogue from Obi-wan confirming their history. This would have to happen early in ROTS, since Obi-wan could only have taken another apprentice during the Clone Wars after Anakin had become a Jedi Knight.

2: If Grievous is already so far gone as to have a metal cranium, it would be pretty clear that this is not the character in the OT when we see the back of Vader’s head in ESB. There’s also the problem that Vader in the OT and Grievous in the PT have entirely different ways of moving, with Grievous being much more alien and animalisitic in his movements.

3: Obi-wan in ANH says that Vader betrayed and murdered Luke’s father. However, there is no one-on-one fight between Grievous and Anakin, and Grievous dies in act 2 long before we see the last of Anakin. If the film is cut to imply that Grievous survives, this would also necessitate Anakin surviving to be killed later by Grievous, but this introduces many more problems as well as leaving unclear how Grievous would ‘betray’ Anakin if he was already a darksider when they met (this is a problem with my latest Prequel concept as well, but it could easily be fixed by having Obi-wan’s apprentice meet and befriend Anakin earlier in their adventures).

These are the problems that I can think of off the top of my head. The frustrating thing is that Grievous has many aspects that would make him a good fit for this role, like being a cyborg with a raspy voice and being trained to kill Jedi, but the leap between that and Obi-wan’s fallen apprentice and onetime friend of Anakin Skywalker is just too great in my opinion. I’d very much like to be proven wrong, however, so if anyone wants to try and make this work all the power to you!

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

1: How would Obi-wan be made to acknowledge that Grevious is his prior student? I suppose some introduction could be made during the crawl since that is also the case in the theatrical version, but it would need to be buttressed by dialogue from Obi-wan confirming their history. This would have to happen early in ROTS, since Obi-wan could only have taken another apprentice during the Clone Wars after Anakin had become a Jedi Knight.

Actually, I was planning to have Obi-Wan mentor Grievous before TPM: in my planned saga edit, it will be established that Padawans can tutor other Padawans in a Japanese senpai/kohai sort of fashion. And I don’t think it’s possible to have Obi-Wan mention a previous apprentice, but I was planning to add some redubbed lines from Yoda hinting at it. For example, after Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan is ready to take an apprentice, Yoda says something like “Your Padawan had an apprentice once. Know how well that turned out, we do.” The teases would get more explicit in AOTC, until Grievous is finally revealed in ROTS.

2: If Grievous is already so far gone as to have a metal cranium, it would be pretty clear that this is not the character in the OT when we see the back of Vader’s head in ESB. There’s also the problem that Vader in the OT and Grievous in the PT have entirely different ways of moving, with Grievous being much more alien and animalisitic in his movements.

One, I’m planning to edit the OT too, and I already knew that I would have to cut out that helmet bit. And two, I feel like Grievous being more alien and animalistic could be explained by him, well, having an alien and animalistic body. It would be implied that after Grievous’s apparent death at Obi-Wan’s hands, his robot body was upgraded into a more lifelike, human form. Of course, this wouldn’t turn out to actually be the case, but still.

3: Obi-wan in ANH says that Vader betrayed and murdered Luke’s father. However, there is no one-on-one fight between Grievous and Anakin, and Grievous dies in act 2 long before we see the last of Anakin. If the film is cut to imply that Grievous survives, this would also necessitate Anakin surviving to be killed later by Grievous, but this introduces many more problems as well as leaving unclear how Grievous would ‘betray’ Anakin if he was already a darksider when they met (this is a problem with my latest Prequel concept as well, but it could easily be fixed by having Obi-wan’s apprentice meet and befriend Anakin earlier in their adventures).

I thought about that too, but I figured it would be fine if the audience already knows that Obi-Wan is lying to at least some degree. There are some edits that already do that by having the “reveal” in ESB be that Anakin survived the Mustafar battle and became Vader, but I think my idea is an improvement by allowing Vader to still be described as Obi-Wan’s apprentice rather than just some generic mook.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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I know it’s not part of the PT, but with the inclusion of the Inquisitors in the Obi Wan show, I wonder if that can be manipulated a bit. With them all being former Jedi, maybe is there a line that would imply Obi Wan taught some of the younglings?

I like you, let us burn things together.

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StarkillerAG said:

NeverarGreat said:

1: How would Obi-wan be made to acknowledge that Grevious is his prior student? I suppose some introduction could be made during the crawl since that is also the case in the theatrical version, but it would need to be buttressed by dialogue from Obi-wan confirming their history. This would have to happen early in ROTS, since Obi-wan could only have taken another apprentice during the Clone Wars after Anakin had become a Jedi Knight.

Actually, I was planning to have Obi-Wan mentor Grievous before TPM: in my planned saga edit, it will be established that Padawans can tutor other Padawans in a Japanese senpai/kohai sort of fashion. And I don’t think it’s possible to have Obi-Wan mention a previous apprentice, but I was planning to add some redubbed lines from Yoda hinting at it. For example, after Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan is ready to take an apprentice, Yoda says something like “Your Padawan had an apprentice once. Know how well that turned out, we do.” The teases would get more explicit in AOTC, until Grievous is finally revealed in ROTS.

2: If Grievous is already so far gone as to have a metal cranium, it would be pretty clear that this is not the character in the OT when we see the back of Vader’s head in ESB. There’s also the problem that Vader in the OT and Grievous in the PT have entirely different ways of moving, with Grievous being much more alien and animalisitic in his movements.

One, I’m planning to edit the OT too, and I already knew that I would have to cut out that helmet bit. And two, I feel like Grievous being more alien and animalistic could be explained by him, well, having an alien and animalistic body. It would be implied that after Grievous’s apparent death at Obi-Wan’s hands, his robot body was upgraded into a more lifelike, human form. Of course, this wouldn’t turn out to actually be the case, but still.

3: Obi-wan in ANH says that Vader betrayed and murdered Luke’s father. However, there is no one-on-one fight between Grievous and Anakin, and Grievous dies in act 2 long before we see the last of Anakin. If the film is cut to imply that Grievous survives, this would also necessitate Anakin surviving to be killed later by Grievous, but this introduces many more problems as well as leaving unclear how Grievous would ‘betray’ Anakin if he was already a darksider when they met (this is a problem with my latest Prequel concept as well, but it could easily be fixed by having Obi-wan’s apprentice meet and befriend Anakin earlier in their adventures).

I thought about that too, but I figured it would be fine if the audience already knows that Obi-Wan is lying to at least some degree. There are some edits that already do that by having the “reveal” in ESB be that Anakin survived the Mustafar battle and became Vader, but I think my idea is an improvement by allowing Vader to still be described as Obi-Wan’s apprentice rather than just some generic mook.

Ah, well if you’re editing the OT it would be a lot easier to make this work!

More generally, as far as redubbing a major character, Grievous is a good choice due to not needing any lip sync. I’d be curious to read your version of his dialogue incorporated into the scenes of the film.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

More generally, as far as redubbing a major character, Grievous is a good choice due to not needing any lip sync. I’d be curious to read your version of his dialogue incorporated into the scenes of the film.

Well, here’s my idea for the first couple of Grievous scenes. I attempted to do three things here: convey Grievous’s new history with Obi-Wan, imply that he’s at least somewhat Force sensitive, and reduce the Jedi’s flippant attitude towards him (since he’s no longer a joke character).

Talking to the Trade Fed captain

GRIEVOUS: I sensed an intruder, captain.

CAPTAIN: Two Jedi have landed in the main hangar bay. We’re tracking them.

GRIEVOUS: There you are, Obi-Wan…

Meeting Anakin and Obi-Wan

GRIEVOUS: Ah, Master Kenobi! It’s good to see you again. If you’re here to apologize, it’s too late. And… Anakin Skywalker. Do you really replace your apprentices so easily, Obi-Wan?

Grievous walks away, and turns around, revealing his saber collection.

GRIEVOUS: Your lightsaber will make for a nice memento, master.

OBI-WAN: Not this time. And this time, you won’t escape.

Obi-Wan and Anakin break free, slashing up battle droids until they finally confront Grievous.

GRIEVOUS: This isn’t the end, Obi-Wan.

Grievous breaks through a window, uses a grappling hook to grab onto the hull, and ejects in an escape pod.

GRIEVOUS: We’ll meet again.

The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards just keeping Grievous as is (and either keeping Anakin becoming Vader or doing the Adywan “make Vader seem like a generic mook” thing), but I’d still like to see if I can make this work.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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I asked this a little bit ago, but does anyone know if someone has attempted to remove the other jedi in the Palpatine/Mace fight? I swore I saw a clip of something like that a long time ago but I can’t find it again. Wish there was a search feature, lol. If not, how hard would it be to achieve that?