Sign In

The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 9

Author
Time

What the hell was going on with Benicio Del Toro’s accent?

Author
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

chyron8472 said:

The one real negative of the film is… Yoda. They got the Yoda voice actor from The Clone Wars (whom I hate), and used either another Creepy Puppet Yoda or a CGI adaption of it.

Wait, they did? Why? Oz came back for Rebels, why not an actual film? Sounded like Oz to me…

Wikipedia says it was Oz…but I mean, that’s Wikipedia…

a trolling bantha

Author
Time

As I speak, in line and just about to see TLJ a second time, and will be seeing it yet again tomorrow. This movie, just as the case was for TFA, definitely requires more than one viewing to put my thoughts together and make up my mind how I feel about it overall.

For anyone curious about my first impression, though, I did have mixed-feelings all around - a great many things I really liked, but also a great many things I didn’t. A few examples: I enjoyed the talk between Yoda and Luke, but man, I couldn’t believe how wrong Yoda’s face looked in the first couple shots (it was too ‘pudgy’ with other off-looking facial features - almost as bad as the TPM creepy puppet, honestly), but as the scene carried on, he did somehow start to look better to me; I was fine with how Snoke died, but I’m not yet sure I liked how so suddenly he was taken out without learning a single new, interesting thing about him, so to me he was a wasted opportunity and just a one-dimensional baddy; I liked that Finn got the chance to have a proper face-off with Phasma, but hated how once again her character was treated; if only their fight and her (definite) death were in VII instead - that would’ve been far better for both characters (Now I just hope she died for good because it’s been embarrassing how her character has been treated in both films); I liked that they attempted to give Leia some strength with the Force, but the execution of it was so cheesy to me (when she was ‘flying’ in space back to safety with that ‘Peter Pan pose’); I absolutely loved the Rey and Kylo dynamic, but I wish I cared more for the Finn/Rose; I liked certain aspects about Luke, but certain other things did feel disjointed from how we knew him in the OT (I was really hoping for a better reason reason for his self-imposed exile while the First Order and Snoke rose to power, instead of just feeling guilty about Ben). Those are just some of my initial likes and dislikes that come mind, but sometime after my third viewing, I’ll give a proper review and cover more.

Wishlist Of Ideas/Suggestions For Improving ROTJ

Author
Time

Doesn’t anyone stay for the credits anymore? It was Frank Oz all the way.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:

chyron8472 said:

The one real negative of the film is… Yoda. They got the Yoda voice actor from The Clone Wars (whom I hate), and used either another Creepy Puppet Yoda or a CGI adaption of it.

Wait, they did? Why? Oz came back for Rebels, why not an actual film? Sounded like Oz to me…

Okay, so it was Oz (I checked on imdb), but it sounded like neither ESB nor Prequel Yoda, but more like someone not-Oz imitating him. Which was compounded by the doesn’t-look-like-ROTJ-Yoda-ghost character appearance.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

I’ve read tons of reactions to this movie and the one thing that people who hate it all seem to agree is terrible is the ‘Space Leia’ moment. People who like the movie largely don’t mention it.

I don’t know what that means.

For the record, I thought that did look a little weird, but I ended up quite enjoying it.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time

When someone actually gets blown out a spaceship for real and uses the Force to get back inside, we’ll have a baseline comparison. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I liked it. I thought it didn’t make sense physics-wise because her body should have had enormously obvious physical damage done to it from the vacuum of space, but I liked it as far as yet-another-twist.

My wife says her main gripe about the film is that Carrie doesn’t get a hero’s death for Leia. Like, they could and should have killed Leia in this in a way that was memorable for Leia and honorable to Carrie, considering Carrie herself won’t be reprising the role in IX.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

So I belonged to the camp that didn’t mind TFA. I believed TFA set up very interesting high stakes for TLJ. For one, given that the Republic was eradicated by the First Order, I was hoping it would show the true terror First Order would have over the galaxy. However, I’m not really feeling its presence or threat. Because of this, I don’t feel that invested into this “war”. Where’s the race against time to desperately stop the FO
from occupying former Republic territories? I know that the FO is supposed to be much smaller than the Empire, but there’s no indication that they’re much of a threat. In ANH, Stormtroopers are occupying Tatooine. You learn that they have a terrible weapon that spreads fear across the galaxy. In ESB, they snuff out the Rebels, cause them to scatter, and they also infiltrate Bespin; all civilians flee in panic when they know the Empire is present. In ROTJ, the Empire is using Endor for resources and not giving a shit about the present population of Ewoks.

I would go as far to say that TFA showed a much fierce First Order. Hell, they killed an entire camp of people in the first 10min or so, and then later on invade Maz’s castle. Most of all, they wiped out the current seat of government for most of the galaxy.

TLJ? All that tension building up went away because they only posed a threat to the Resistance. They seriously sent their best toys all at once against another faction. First we’re stuck for almost the entire film in space in a boring slog of Snoke’s ship shooting the Resistance cruiser. Finally near the end, they bring out the other fun toys to an abandoned Rebel base. Seriously feels like I’m watching a movie where two kids are playing with their Lego sets. Here’s the bad guys cause they’re bad, and here’s the good guys cause they’re good. Now shoot!

It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth cause TFA set up this power vacuum that basically put the First Order on top once the Republic vanished. I wanted to see how far and wide their power was. The closest we got was that Casino planet but I don’t think it directly tied anything to the First Order. Just some random aristocrat planet that supplied weapons to both sides. I suppose the only interesting aspect is that it’s not simply the First Order that’s the problem, but it’s the actual war between the two sides that cause poverty. But er… We’re supposed to feel good about the Resistance given how that kid at the end looks up to the stars admiring them even though they play a role in his place in society.

The Rise of Failures

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Doesn’t anyone stay for the credits anymore? It was Frank Oz all the way.

Yeah, you don’t even have to stay that long either, he’s listed among the main cast.

Author
Time

The character who makes that point is the same one who betrays Finn and Rose for a ton of money though. The last person I’d believe about anything.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

Doesn’t anyone stay for the credits anymore? It was Frank Oz all the way.

Yeah, you don’t even have to stay that long either, he’s listed among the main cast.

My point is he sounded like The Clone Wars’ Yoda. He didn’t even sound like ROTS Yoda, which would have been the next most recent live action film with the character as played by Oz.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

chyron8472 said:

I don’t see why people are constantly complaining about TLJ like “it breaks what TFA set up!” or some such. That’s what I liked about it—the plot twists.

You think Snoke is going to be the next Palpatine (ie. big bad who dies at the end of the third film), but he’s not.

You think Luke is going to mentor Rey but he doesn’t.

You think Leia is dead but she’s not.

You think someone or something on the Light Side is connecting Rey and Ren, but it’s Snoke, but it’s again not really.

You think Finn is going to destroy the tracker but he doesn’t and gets caught. You think there’s no way out except then BB-8 shows up in a chicken walker.

You think Poe is going to save the cruiser but he doesn’t.

You think it’s the Vice Admiral coming through the door but it isn’t.

You think Luke is on the planet fighting Ren but he’s not.

You think Ren is going to kill Rey but he doesn’t—he does exactly what Vader wanted to do in ESB but couldn’t.

 

It’s the best thing about the film. It keeps throwing curve balls.

Oh, and that business about Rey’s family being nobodies from nowheresville, Ren told her that. There is no guarantee that he was not lying. But even if he wasn’t, I like the idea that not the whole of the The Force hinges directly on descendants of the House of Skywalker (as many people speculated that she was a daughter of Luke or Leia).

The one real negative of the film is… Yoda. They got the Yoda voice actor from The Clone Wars (whom I hate), and used either another Creepy Puppet Yoda or a CGI adaption of it.

I have no problem with Snoke not being Palpatine, but he threw out the context and motivations with Snoke. The New Republic magically disappeared, with the FO instantly controlling the galaxy, which seems odd when it took the Rebel Alliance five yours to take control after the battle of Endor. It’s now just Empire vs rebels again, only with Darth Vader Light at the helm, who’s had no further training, and is now just waiting to be beat again by Rey. There’s no tension there. Rey’s won every fight she was in. She’s practically a Jedi Knight after three basic lessons. I guess the tension should come from the fact there are only a handful of rebels left, but that just makes it seem ridiculous to me. The FO have won. Kudos to them. TLJ so blatantly disregards many conventions for shock value, and it seems RJ forgot his movie is supposed to be part of a trilogy and saga. You don’t create a trilogy and saga by cutting all ties with the past, and having no open story threads for the future. There’s literally nothing to look forward to, except another big space or ground battle between the FO and the probably completely revived rebellion, and watch Rey whoop Kylo’s behind again. Been there, done that.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DrDre said:

it seems RJ forgot his movie is supposed to be part of a trilogy and saga. You don’t create a trilogy and saga by cutting all ties with the past, and having no open story threads for the future. There’s literally nothing to look forward to

My wife says that’s one thing she liked about this film, as a middle film, as opposed to ESB. In ESB the movie just kind of ended, with a very deliberate (and bothersome) cliffhanger. In this, sure there could be more to the story, but there doesn’t have to be. It could end right there with “even if the Resistance dies, there are still (young) Force users and a hope for the future.”

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

DrDre said:

it seems RJ forgot his movie is supposed to be part of a trilogy and saga. You don’t create a trilogy and saga by cutting all ties with the past, and having no open story threads for the future. There’s literally nothing to look forward to

My wife says that’s one thing she liked about this film, as a middle film, as opposed to ESB. In ESB the movie just kind of ended, with a very deliberate (and bothersome) cliffhanger. In this, sure there could be more to the story, but there doesn’t have to be. It could end right there with “even if the Resistance dies, there are still (young) Force users and a hope for the future.”

Well, I didn’t. I now have zero interest to watch Ep IX, even though I probably will anyway. In my view the ST is a disjointed mess, with RJ killing all story threads and setups provided by TFA in favour of his own stuff, while providing zero story threads and setups for the future.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

A final chapter that will feature the rebels somehow defeating the FO, and Rey beating Kylo again. There’s no tension there. All the connections to the past are gone. Rey’s a blank slate without a history, as is the FO. Leia’s given up on her son, and since Carrie Fisher is sadly gone, there’s not going to be a confrontation. Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne. The final chapter is supposed to be a pay-off, but a pay-off to what?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

Author
Time

Then again maybe JJ will surprise the hell out of us? We have two years to wait.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat, much like the Jedi were by Lucas in the PT. Kylo didn’t get where he was by cunning and his abilities, but because Snoke was a moron. To me this deflates Kylo even more, than his defeat by Rey in TFA. He’s already been beaten, and get’s handed control of the FO by his master’s stupidity.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat, much like the Jedi were by Lucas in the PT. Kylo didn’t get where he was by cunning and his abilities, but because Snoke’s a moron.

A moron? Snoke’s plan made a good deal of sense from his angle and his overconfidence and overreaching of emotional abuse of Kylo was his downfall. That’s not stupidity.

Snoke desired to pit both Rey and Kylo between each other. To see them struggle with what side they wanted each other to be on and see the chaos to come of it. Snoke’s dialogue about seeing Kylo’s every intent, and feeling “no more conflict, but resolve” is great cause Snoke is completely right. He senses a complete feeling of no conflict, but is too blinded to realize who it is directed at. Snoke thought that abusing and ridiculing Kylo would drive him towards further greatness. That is also true. He was simply too blinded to realize it would involve his downfall.

Like another user said, Kylo achieved here what Vader originally wanted in ESB. And it was executed incredibly well with smart, foreshadowing dialogue.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

Author
Time
 (Edited)

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat, much like the Jedi were by Lucas in the PT. Kylo didn’t get where he was by cunning and his abilities, but because Snoke’s a moron.

A moron? Snoke’s plan made a good deal of sense from his angle and his overconfidence and overreaching of emotional abuse of Kylo was his downfall. That’s not stupidity.

Snoke desired to pit both Rey and Kylo between each other. To see them struggle with what side they wanted each other to be on and see the chaos to come of it. Snoke’s dialogue about seeing Kylo’s every intent, and feeling “no more conflict, but resolve” is great cause Snoke is completely right. He senses a complete feeling of no conflict, but is too blinded to realize who it is directed at. Snoke thought that abusing and ridiculing Kylo would drive him towards further greatness. That is also true. He was simply too blinded to realize it would involve his downfall.

Like another user said, Kylo achieved here what Vader originally wanted in ESB. And it was executed incredibly well with smart, foreshadowing dialogue.

Well to me if a character first claims that Kylo is split to the core, and then in an instant believes he’s no longer conflicted, and cut down like a chump, he’s a moron.

It’s all an issue of RJ cramming two films worth of development into half a film. Kylo needed to develop further, show he was a competent leader of the FO, and a serious threat to Rey. Then it would be credible for Snoke to believe his apprentice has resolve.

Author
Time

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat, much like the Jedi were by Lucas in the PT. Kylo didn’t get where he was by cunning and his abilities, but because Snoke’s a moron.

A moron? Snoke’s plan made a good deal of sense from his angle and his overconfidence and overreaching of emotional abuse of Kylo was his downfall. That’s not stupidity.

Snoke desired to pit both Rey and Kylo between each other. To see them struggle with what side they wanted each other to be on and see the chaos to come of it. Snoke’s dialogue about seeing Kylo’s every intent, and feeling “no more conflict, but resolve” is great cause Snoke is completely right. He senses a complete feeling of no conflict, but is too blinded to realize who it is directed at. Snoke thought that abusing and ridiculing Kylo would drive him towards further greatness. That is also true. He was simply too blinded to realize it would involve his downfall.

Like another user said, Kylo achieved here what Vader originally wanted in ESB. And it was executed incredibly well with smart, foreshadowing dialogue.

Well to me if a character first claims that Kylo is split to the core, and then in an instant believes he’s no longer conflicted, and cut down like a chump, he’s a moron.

If I recall, he thought he was split to the core in one scene and then it was only when he had brought Rey to him, that he sensed the resolve. Which would make sense to me since you see the slow build up of his and Rey relationship alongside the increased abuse and frustration with Snoke.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

Author
Time
 (Edited)

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat, much like the Jedi were by Lucas in the PT. Kylo didn’t get where he was by cunning and his abilities, but because Snoke’s a moron.

A moron? Snoke’s plan made a good deal of sense from his angle and his overconfidence and overreaching of emotional abuse of Kylo was his downfall. That’s not stupidity.

Snoke desired to pit both Rey and Kylo between each other. To see them struggle with what side they wanted each other to be on and see the chaos to come of it. Snoke’s dialogue about seeing Kylo’s every intent, and feeling “no more conflict, but resolve” is great cause Snoke is completely right. He senses a complete feeling of no conflict, but is too blinded to realize who it is directed at. Snoke thought that abusing and ridiculing Kylo would drive him towards further greatness. That is also true. He was simply too blinded to realize it would involve his downfall.

Like another user said, Kylo achieved here what Vader originally wanted in ESB. And it was executed incredibly well with smart, foreshadowing dialogue.

Well to me if a character first claims that Kylo is split to the core, and then in an instant believes he’s no longer conflicted, and cut down like a chump, he’s a moron.

If I recall, he thought he was split to the core in one scene and then it was only when he had brought Rey to him, that he sensed the resolve. Which would make sense to me since you see the slow build up of his and Rey relationship alongside the increased abuse and frustration with Snoke.

He mentioned Kylo was conflicted multiple times. He was also the person to connect Rey and Kylo across the galaxy, so he must have continually felt Kylo’s anger, frustration, and doubts. If he can connect Rey and Kylo across vast distances, he must also have felt Kylo couldn’t kill his mother. Everything leading up to the throne room confrontation suggested to us, and thus to the omni-present Snoke, that Kylo was in a worse state than he ever was before. Ryan set everything up such that the viewer would believe Kylo could turn back to the good side. He also sets up Snoke as a witness to all this through the Force. Yet, when the plot needs Snoke to go, he suddenly senses resolve and isn’t able to put two and two together.