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The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!) — Page 2

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Since you plan to add a day dream scene, I think you could have some kind of pattern here to better explain the awakening of the force through Rey:
1- Day dream
2- Force vision
3- Unlocked mind by Ren
4- Jedi mind trick
5- Anakin’s lightsaber that goes into Rey’s hand after Finn vs Ren

Then would you consider adding material as well within points 3 and 4 in order to smoother Rey’s “evolution” ? Especially during the jedi mind trick sequence which doesn’t work and does seem forced in its theatrical version. Something like adding Ben’s voice-over from ANH about weak minded, as if Rey was “guided” through the Force, for example ?

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The mind trick is one of the few things in the film that actually bothers me. I get the idea of it, but it feels like a step too far. I’ve thought about ways to make it seem like Rey simply unlocks the restraints with the force (possibly with voices or visions or something happening) but I’m really not sure if there’s any believable way to do it.

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What she says to Finn later implies that the idea just sort of came to her (through the will of the force, I imagine). Kinda ambiguous though.

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She has just invaded the mind of Kylo, and he knows how to get information from people. Perhaps if we heard his voice when she’s thinking about what to do: ‘I can take whatever I want’.

Also, I’ve been thinking about how to repurpose Kylo viewing the Starkiller beam, and the interrogation scene may be a good place. Since it’s only canon to show the personal visions of the main character, Rey would have to be the one viewing them. So to do this, Kylo’s prayer before the interrogation could cut right after ‘I will let nothing stand in our way’. Then, as the tables turn and Rey gains the upper hand in the interrogation, she sees the Starkiller shots and the Vader mask overlaid with the missing ‘grandfather’ dialogue. This would serve as a revelation to both Rey and the audience at the same time, which can only be a good thing for the story.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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^That I’d definitely have to see in practice, because it sounds like it’d be tough to pull off.

RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

Yeah I feel like that’s the one I’m sort of leaning towards but it’s hard to know how well it’d work without actually seeing it.

I went ahead and made a rough version where his counsel with Vader is in between Han & Leia’s talk and Rey’s interrogation. Didn’t put the entirety of those two scenes in the video, just enough to get the gist. I also went ahead and put the two Maz scenes back together where the Kylo scene originally was just to see if the transition would work without it in between them. Like I said, it’s rough, but maybe it’ll help you guys decide if this direction is worth pursuing.

https://vimeo.com/213984598

Somehow I missed this. I think it mostly works (providing the audio transitions are smoothed up). As much as I really love that Finalizer shot, I don’t think it really makes sense for Kylo to be there. I do kind of like the snow mountain shot in between though.

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You are planning a much more extensive revision that I have in mind. But do you mind if I appropriate the Star Destroyer over Tokodana for my edit?

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Remeber though, the ambiguity of the Force is why we all love the Original Trilogy. I just assume that she learned it when she probed Ren’s mind. I also assume she was driven by the dark side, or heard Vader’s voice about giving into hatred to destroy Ren. I tried the overdub and really liked it, but it was too on the nose.
I look at it as she learned on the job. The very first force user learned the same way. If she is who I think she may be, it would make perfect sense.

In short, I think saying or showing too much is not the way to go.

Just my 2¢

digmodification.wordpress.com

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DominicCobb said:

Somehow I missed this. I think it mostly works (providing the audio transitions are smoothed up). As much as I really love that Finalizer shot, I don’t think it really makes sense for Kylo to be there. I do kind of like the snow mountain shot in between though.

Neverar mentioned this earlier. I definitely think using the mountain est. shot for both scenes would work the best, and just cut the Finalizer shot. My only concern would be that Vader’s helmet will now be on Starkiller Base rather than the Finalizer, so we could possibly create a continuity error if Vader’s helmet appears in The Last Jedi. But apparently all of the main villains had time to escape Starkiller’s destruction, so I guess you could just hand-wave it and say they just grabbed it before they left.

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DigMod said:

Remeber though, the ambiguity of the Force is why we all love the Original Trilogy. I just assume that she learned it when she probed Ren’s mind. I also assume she was driven by the dark side, or heard Vader’s voice about giving into hatred to destroy Ren. I tried the overdub and really liked it, but it was too on the nose.
I look at it as she learned on the job. The very first force user learned the same way. If she is who I think she may be, it would make perfect sense.

In short, I think saying or showing too much is not the way to go.

Just my 2¢

I would agree with this except that she uses the same type of line delivery that Obi-wan and Luke use in the OT when performing the Jedi Mind Trick™. In an ideal world she would have picked up this exact ability from Kylo and used it. However, if the dark Force vision works, it may change the feeling of the scene enough that it’s no longer an issue.

As for the Vader helmet on the base, I would be surprised if it ever made an appearance outside of this film, except perhaps as a background decoration in Kylo’s lair.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I am thinking about deleting Bala-Tik’s dialogue about the droid entirely, and shifting the first Snoke scene to just after the Maz Castle battle.

This creates quite a few new meanings and interpretations.

First, the gangs don’t know about the droid, since that information would probably be secret to all but the First Order’s own spies. The Maz Castle spy is the first and only tip-off to the First Order about BB-8.

Second, the villains don’t make a pit stop at the Starkiller while they are supposedly tracking the Falcon. This keeps the change of location very simple, and visually introduces the Starkiller only when it becomes important to the 3rd act. If the deleted Leia scene happens directly after this, it would place strong emphasis on the Republic going into the final act of the film.

Third, it keeps Kylo’s identity a secret until Han’s reveal after the battle, and the Snoke scene becomes a follow-up to and confirmation of the reveal.

Fourth, it makes Snoke seem a bit more in control as he has presumably heard about and considered Kylo’s decision to take the girl instead of the droid. The later grumbling about the droid after the interrogation scene would be cut, as well as Hux’s finger-pointing. In this scene Hux even tries to take responsibility for the bungle, which gets shouted down. Oddly, Snoke doesn’t seem angry with Kylo for abandoning the droid, which leads me to…

Fifth, Snoke seems very concerned about the effect of Han Solo on Kylo Ren, and thinks that it may be too much of a test for him. One interpretation of this is that Snoke thinks that Kylo avoided gaining the droid to avoid facing his father, or even that Kylo was intentionally helping Han and the Resistance by giving up the droid. This is more than a hint that Kylo will be redeemed in the 3rd act, making his eventual decision all the more cruel. (It may be worth removing the lines about needing reinforcements at the battle in order to make his decision that much more questionable)

Sixth, and most importantly for Rey, the awakening that Snoke speaks of happens after Rey’s ‘call to adventure’ Force vision, leaving no doubt as to the source of the awakening.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I had been thinking of the possibility of moving that scene there (mainly because of your sixth reason). It definitely only works if the Republic’s destruction is moved later so it an interesting thing to consider for this.

Your other reasons are pretty solid. I personally would be a bit worried about introducing Kylo’s conflict so late but it could work. One thing that you’d have to be careful about is Snoke’s dialogue - “the droid we seek” - considering with Rey in hand they are no longer seeking the droid.

Random aside but Snoke’s line, “The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to The Last Jedi,” has a wonderful added meta meaning in that it literally leads them to Episode VIII

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Here’s a mockup of the Snoke scene and the battle leading up to it:
https://vimeo.com/214272131
Password: rough

I wanted to test the idea that Kylo would abandon the search for the droid even without knowing about the impending Resistance attack. Results are mixed. On the one hand, I like that the First Order began their retreat before the Resistance attacked, which shows that it wasn’t because of the strength of the Resistance but the decision of Kylo. On the other hand, I wish there were more shots of the First Order retreating. The extra Poe shots don’t work either.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat, I enjoy your videos, but would you ever fancy using one password for your videos? Maybe something like “originaltrilogy” or “fanedit”? 😛

digmodification.wordpress.com

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New mockup.

https://vimeo.com/214598035
Password: learning

One problem with this section of the film was how easily Rey learned the Jedi mind trick, so I’ve attempted to expand that section into two scenes. To do this, it became necessary to split the interrogation into two scenes as well, which I’m okay with since the interrogation was rather too long. It also gave me a chance to experiment with different lighting situations at different times.

The first session includes a few extra shots of Kylo in the darkness watching Rey, which give the scene a more creepy ‘creature in a mask’ vibe and contrasts with helmetless Kylo later on. The placement of the ‘forgive me’ scene implies that Rey is the cause of Kylo’s questioning, and it would be good to have him reference her to that effect. The second session shows a more aggressive form of interrogation, with a more combative Rey who is beginning to use her power.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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About the ‘interrogation 7’ mockup, some of the cuts feel a little rushed but that may be fixable with a bit more work, perhaps on the audio side. This sequence does add an effective psychological element to Kylo’s distress at Rey escaping.

I do prefer some of your dialog trims, like removing ‘Supreme Leader senses it’ from the ‘forgive me…’ scene, and removing some of the stormtroopers dialogue when Rey escapes.

At the end of ESB, when Luke is on the Falcon and is communicating with Vader through the force I think they use a 3 frame dissolve to switch between Luke and Vader. Perhaps you could use that instead of fading out the different lighting where Rey wakes up in the first half of the interrogation? I like the idea that Rey is seeing herself through Kylo’s eyes through a kind of force dream, but not sure if that’s what you’re going for here.

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Thanks for the suggestions!

I forgot to mention that for this mockup I have only extracted the center channel of audio, so the audio transitions are very preliminary and for the final I would probably use the score to rebuild the transitions.

I still have some rather ambitious plans for adding Force visions to the interrogations, so that aspect will probably change. The shot of Kylo before Rey wakes up wasn’t intended as anything more than establishing him in the darkened room.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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It’s a nice idea. I think splitting the interrogation mostly works fine, but splitting the Jedi mind trick feels a bit weird. She knows what she’s trying to do and just fine tunes it on the spot, so it makes sense to just try again until it works. And the small part of the first try feels a bit short and disjointed, as well as going in between what would have been a nice transition from Han and Leia believing there is good in their son to Kylo fearing that same thing.

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It’s funny, the whole reason for splitting the interrogation was to split the mind trick, and now I like the interrogations but don’t like the mind trick scenes.

Update: I held the first part of the mind until trick after Kylo’s prayer, so now there’s a better flow. The first mind trick is essentially a prelude to the final interrogation now, separated only by Kylo stomping down the hall.

The major problem is that the second mind trick scene needs a different tone to account for her awakened power. I wonder if putting some music over the second scene would do the trick. Something subtle but dark and powerful. Thoughts?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

It’s funny, the whole reason for splitting the interrogation was to split the mind trick, and now I like the interrogations but don’t like the mind trick scenes.

Update: I held the first part of the mind until trick after Kylo’s prayer, so now there’s a better flow. The first mind trick is essentially a prelude to the final interrogation now, separated only by Kylo stomping down the hall.

The major problem is that the second mind trick scene needs a different tone to account for her awakened power. I wonder if putting some music over the second scene would do the trick. Something subtle but dark and powerful. Thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea. Lots of good “unfamilliar” music on the shadows of the Empire soundtrack. Might be what your looking for.

My fan edit ideas
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-Sith-Revenge-of-the-Jedi-by-marduk666/id/17356

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Perhaps so.

However, upon reflection, there may be a more simple solution.

If I could manipulate Kylo’s line to be ‘You will give the map to me’ then Rey’s appropriation of that sentence structure in the next scene would make a lot more sense. If that worked, I doubt that I would keep the split scenes, and would settle for a more subtle edit in this section.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

If I could manipulate Kylo’s line to be ‘You will give the map to me’ then Rey’s appropriation of that sentence structure in the next scene would make a lot more sense. If that worked, I doubt that I would keep the split scenes, and would settle for a more subtle edit in this section.

I think this is the best solution. Better to change less if possible rather than more. Kylo already “kind of” says it, like, “And now you’ll give it to me.” Maybe the proceeding back and forth, battle of the wills, that they have going on, you could fit in the line, “You will give me the map” or a similar phrase during that back and forth. It would help parallel Rey’s attempt, who also repeats the phrase until it works.