The Acolyte (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread — Page 8

NFBisms said:

+1 for Jenny Nicholson’s video, it’s genuinely really really good.

It’s probably the most thorough roast of any theme park attraction, at least until the inevitable Defunctland video on Rocket Rods.

Also, I completely agree with the long post section you deleted. I get why you deleted it, but it said everything I wanted to say (but am too unsophisticated to write).

Absolutely spot on Anjohan, couldn’t have said it better myself.

NFBisms said:

sad that anyone agrees with Anjohan, it’s just empty rhetoric

Yeah, but I find it pointless to try and change minds here (outside of purely technically discussions).

NFBisms said:

sad that anyone agrees with Anjohan, it’s just empty rhetoric

I find it sad that you don’t agree with that. But like Bede said, I also find it pointless to argue cause I can already tell you we are on completely opposing sides, and would never find any sort of common ground.

Can we please just get back to talking about the show and stop with this stupid political bullshit? I mean we’re not even talking about The Acolyte anymore this thread is just derailing into this stupid circular argument that never ends because no one will decide to shut up about it. Can we all just collectively agree to stop bringing up whether or not the show is being review bombed or not because talking about that just seems to bring this dumb argument over and over again. It’s this type of thing that makes the Star Wars fandom so toxic because no one can just agree to disagree. If you’re not watching the show because you’ve been burned by the franchise too many times before then just comment that and leave this thread for the people who are actually watching the show. And if you actually decide to watch the show and want to discuss it and why you think it’s bad fine do that just stop with this whole stupid political argument so we can actually talk about the show and whether it’s good or bad. It’s just so exhausting and I’m sick of it.

daveybjones999…yes, yes and yes! Thank you!

And to get back on topic I’ll just say I had low expectations for this show and having now scene the episodes available…I’ll be darned but I actually really like it! Watched the episodes about three times each and I’m enjoying the characters, pacing, music and action a great deal.

JadedSkywalker said:

They have ruined enjoyment of things almost like they are deliberately trying to sabotage SW, and I mean fans not Kathy Kennedy. Do I like the Disney trilogy no, I did like Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. I like Andor and I like Mandalorian. Sure, quality varies. The only one I didn’t like is Book of Boba Fett. I haven’t seen Acolyte yet, I will admit I haven’t read any of the High Republic books but not because of their alleged wokeness, just because I like the old EU lore and its universe of characters more. I have read a comic book from IDW but not the longform novels, I have had Disney SW fans recommend them to me which I really don’t mind they can like what they like and they aren’t shills.

This isn’t a religion there aren’t true fans, if you are a fan of SW you are a fan regardless of who produced it.

Lucas isn’t a god he doesn’t need defending, the OT isn’t the bible. The prequel isn’t holy scripture.

I agree with all of that. I would guess you may enjoy certain aspects of The High Republic publishing project, such as the Jedi being more like the Jedi many of us imagined before the prequels (that old pre-pre-PT era lore that if often forgotten these days).

Some have relationships, attachments, different coloured lightsabers and variants of them, and differing uniforms than the Tatooine robes. The Jedi aren’t as centralized as we see them in the PT era (there are many Jedi outposts, and each have their own approach or thing going on), nor are they as dogmatic at PT Jedi (some are, though it is not “the norm”). I’m not saying it is perfect or exactly like that pre-PT era lore or anything, and there are issues, but could be something a fan of the older EU may enjoy?
 

Regardless, I’m looking forward to see more of The Acolyte.

adywan said:
Now the big thing they are complaining about it fire in space and the fact that there is a campfire cracking sound for the fire. Well, for one, fire in space is nothing new with Star Wars. This isn’t sci-fi and its never really followed real world physics. It’s fantasy.

The “fire burning in space” scene kind of bothered me too, and I mostly like this show so far.

Obviously, Star Wars is fantasy, and issues like this go back to Empire Strikes Back, with Han walking around inside a giant space worm that lives in an asteroid in the vacuum of space, wearing nothing but a small oxygen mask on his face. And also for some reason there’s gravity inside the worm. Irvin Kershner once commented on this scene, saying Star Wars is fantasy and real world physics don’t apply.

I mean, I get it… it’s fantasy. But I’ve always found the argument that “it’s not supposed to be sci-fi it’s a fantasy!!” to often be self-serving and problematic. I mean, how far do we take this? Let’s take the Acolyte example with the “fire burning in space” scene. What if there was a similar scene that showed orange flames burning, crackling and flickering continuously under water? Should we just shrug and say “it’s not science fiction!!!” in that case? I doubt your intuition would lead you to think so, because the average person in the 21st century intuitively understands that fire doesn’t burn underwater (at least not without some exotic combustion source), but very few people have such an intuitive understanding of conditions in outer space. But that might change some day, perhaps sooner than we realize.

A better way to put it might be: why is “fire doesn’t burn in space” considered a rule that should only apply in science fiction? What about “fire doesn’t normally burn underwater” or “humans can’t breath under water”? Why do these apply beyond the genre of science fiction - even in pure fantasy?

The boundary between sci-fi and reality continues to blur with each passing day. There are things in Star Wars that now seem bizarrely counter-intuitive, like the fact that R2-D2 can’t communicate in English using a voice synthesizer, but my smartphone from 2019 can. I don’t blame the original 1977 Star Wars for that one - in 1977 they couldn’t possibly have correctly intuited things like that. But by 2024 I feel like “fire doesn’t burn in space” should not be a rule confined exclusively to science fiction. Even pure fantasy implicitly operates with baseline assumptions about real-world physics or chemistry. When we watch Lord of the Rings for example, we expect that people can’t breathe underwater and a flaming wooden torch won’t continue to burn underwater (at least not without some magic). So why is outer space so different? Again, the only reason is implicit assumptions by the writers about the intuition/experience of the average viewer - something that changes (often rapidly) with the times.

Of course, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me because I can’t possibly hope to be 100% consistent about this. For example, I wouldn’t want Star Wars to suddenly remove all sound effects from space combat scenes, because that would detract from the viewing experience way too much. But I would argue writers should at least try - when possible - to maintain baseline real-world physics, as long as it doesn’t detract from the story too much. We have to accept some fantasy things like hyperspace travel, sound in space, the Force, etc., because forgoing such things for the sake of scientific accuracy would be too destructive to the story-telling experience overall. But fire burning in space is just pointless.

rocknroll41 said:

Footage of a major spoiler just got leaked, apparently from episode 4 or 5, so be on your toes throughout the next week or so, if you’re trying to avoid spoilers on the internet.

Thanks for the warning! (Immediately goes to r/starwarsleaks)

Some spoilers for the episode in this post so if you haven’t seen episode 3 maybe watch it before reading my comment. I thought this was another good episode for this show, in fact I think it’s my favorite so far. This episode has to thread a very fine line between revealing a lot about what happened leading up to the massacre on Brendok whilst also keeping tons of things vague and unexplained, as well as setting up some new mysteries for what actually happened there. It succeeds by telling the story mostly through Osha’s point of view, yes we do get a few scenes where she isn’t present with Mother Anesyia, but other than those we are firmly rooted in her perspective which allows the episode to show what happened without giving all of the answers. However, that leads me to one of my issues with the episode, specifically Mae and Osha’s confrontation at the end. It felt really out of character for Mae to try and kill Osha, and it’s not believable that her burning Osha’s book could lead to such a huge fire. I mean I guess she could use the Force, or Thread as the Coven calls it, but there’s still a disconnect. I’m really hoping this is intentional meant to throw doubt on whether the scene really happened as we saw it. It feels like a setup to show that either it wasn’t Mae who did that, or it was some illusion that made it look like it was Mae.

Back to more positives, the episode expands the lore by showing the Jedi from a completely outside and somewhat hostile perspective. The scene where the Jedi confront the Coven is wrought with tension as it feels like both sides are moments away from attacking the other. I also liked how much it differentiated Mae and Osha with Mae reveling in using the Thread and wanting to remain part of the coven, and Osha wanting a different life, to not become a witch and to be her own separate person from Mae. We also learned new information about Osha and Mae’s origins, specifically that they’ve been somehow created unnaturally and that the Jedi would kill the coven if they found out and that wasn’t known beforehand. We learned that the Coven was previously persecuted and driven nearly to extinction before leaving to settle on this planet in peace. There’s clearly way more to the story but it answers just enough questions for me to feel satisfied. This was really the episode that completely hooked me into the show, I liked the first two, but this is the one that’s making this show a must watch for me.

Totally agree with you on your positives, Davey. Really enjoyed the exploration of a different Force culture in live action. The music for them was great too.

I’m sure people will complain that it’s trying to make the Jedi look bad, but I think they do a decent job trying to balance it out.

First of all, we don’t know if this witch cult is totally benevolent. We don’t know if the Jedi were the ones who persecuted them, or the Sith, or just people in general who feared their witchcraft, but did they do something in the past that made others fear them?

Yes, the Jedi did barge into their coven and their ceremony, but from the Jedi’s point of view, they might believe the children are being indoctrinated into a dangerous cult. Plus, it didn’t seem like they were going to take them, but they wanted the children to make that choice for themselves. That could change once more is revealed, but we’ll see.

I also thought Mother had an interesting struggle between wanting to be a good mother to the twins, but also serving the interests of their coven. For example, it is sort of hypocritical for her to say that her wanting to be a Jedi might be just a phase, but at the same time forcing her to pledge herself to the coven. Also, when Osha tells Mother that she wants to be a Jedi, she doesn’t give her permission, she says that her decision would be considered by the coven.

I am kind of curious about why Mother couldn’t just refuse the Jedi’s request for the girls to be tested. She said they weren’t a part of the Republic, so they aren’t legally required to have the girls tested. My assumption is that if she refused, the Jedi wouldn’t have left them alone and would’ve caused more problems down the line. But if she granted their request and they lied on their tests, the Jedi would lose interest and leave them alone. Also like how the Jedi tests were consistent with Episode 1.

I’m sure this is going to upset people, but I don’t mind the implication that the twins were also born of no father, like Anakin.
Palpatine said that Plagueis could influence the midichlorians to create life, so unless Palpatine was lying, we know this was an ability someone could theoretically possess. Mother even says something along the lines of “create life”, which makes me feel that this was an intentional allusion. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re setting up the idea that Plagueis learned this power from this coven, somehow. It would be similar how Palpatine seemed to learn certain things for the Nightsisters. I like the idea of the Sith taking an ability that was initially something meant to be positive and twisting it for their own designs. This could bs a reason as to why the Sith have an interest in Mae. What this means for Anakin and the concept of the Chosen One is a good question, but I don’t think it is bad to play around with the idea. It’s interesting, and expands upon the mystery of the Force.

But I do get why people maybe feel a little disinterested in this episode since it sort of presents the facts as they have been alluded to already. It almost makes me wonder how differently it would feel if the series started with this episode instead? Or, if they had been more vague about what happened in first two episodes, and allowed this flashback to answer those questions. Just cut down on some of the exposition.

This episode fully leans in to what was implied about the Jedi in the Prequels: they go around imposing their will on the Galaxy like the Spanish Inquisition, snatching away Force-sensitive children essentially at gunpoint. The Coven acted like they had no choice in the matter, and instead tried to trick the Jedi into leaving. Nice “Guardians of Peace and Justice”. They’re more like the Galactic Gestapo.

I never liked how the Prequels portrayed the Jedi and this show really leans into that portrayal. Ahh well, it is what it is.

Anyway, I was also a bit confused when the entire Coven compound went up in flames so quickly. The walls don’t even look flammable - they look metallic, but that fire spread really quickly and somehow instantly killed everyone except Mae. Yet the corpses didn’t appear to be burned. I can’t tell if that’s supposed to hint at some deeper layer of mystery, or if the writers just want us to accept the fire at face value. I don’t know, maybe everyone died from smoke inhalation or carbon monoxide poisoning. (Has this Coven ever heard of sprinkler systems?? And why am I spending so much time thinking about the physics of fire with this show??)

Overall, I thought the episode was okay. I like the Jedi characters - they actually have distinct, interesting personalities and even warmth, unlike most of the Prequel Jedi. It’s also interesting to see another sect of Force users with their own interpretation of the Force, even if they’re basically just a remix of the Dathomir witches.

Also, I don’t think this episode was that redundant. I mean, all we knew before was that Osha’s family died in some fire and Mae seemed to blame the Jedi. I didn’t necessarily expect that Mae herself started the fire. But I do agree that the first two episodes shouldn’t have revealed so much information, especially since so much of it was revealed in rather clunky expository dialogue. Like at one point one of the Jedi actually tells Osha something like “your entire family was killed, etc.”. Pretty clunky, and completely redundant since we see these events play out in Episode 3 anyway.

One thing that suggests a deeper mystery here is the fact that in Episode 2, Torbin willingly killed himself, implying he felt extreme guilt over something he did to Mae and wanted to atone for it. Nothing we saw in this episode explains that.

This episode has me more engaged and intrigued in the series. I wonder if we’ll see flashbacks from another POV, or Rashomon, to flesh out and complete the story of what happened on Brendok. And explain how Mae’s quick turn to wanting to kill here sister, the fire spreading so quickly, the unburnt bodies of the witches coven still grouped together, and more.

The manner in which the Jedi taking children was interestingly portrayed here too, and am looking forward to seeing hopefully be explored more as the series progresses.

Also enjoy reading all the posts on the series in here, especially the three posts above this one. And people given the series a go with an open mind, and actually watch the series itself, the story and characters, before rushing to any pre-conceived judgments and proclamations.

I’m certainly looking forward to next week’s episode, and likely the rest of the series.
 

‘The Acolyte’ Draws Biggest Series Premiere on Disney+ This Year - from The Walt Disney Co. site