ww12345 said:
Whoa, I never knew that was supposed to be a circular building!
And that's exactly it. There is no context in the finished shot ..
If we put the context back in, by putting more of the matte painting back in (and taking the pointless foliage back out), suddenly it works ..
Well, except for that "curtain effect" of the bottom edge. (Next time, they shouldn't hire a matte cutter while he's stoned out ...)
ww12345 said:
Whoa, I never knew that was supposed to be a circular building!
Agreed, I am just now seeing that for the first time.
"They were cones!"
If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?
The original concept for these temples was for them to be built out of massive circular blocks of stone stacked on top of each other with spaces between them held apart by those stairstep walls. The method of their construction being I suppose some long lost technology, like some people claim of the architecture of the Inca.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
ray_afraid said:
RU.08 said:
The thing I don't like about this painting, isn't the rock, it's the left wall that is recessed behind the vertical "door" that just looks so fake because there's no depth to it (it doesn't look like the wall is going back behind the door). And also for consistency the right-hand wall should be coming further forward. I guess this is the problem when a painting is done "in-place" and there's no time to go back and do another one to fix those things...Why does the wall on the left need to match the wall on the right? There's no need for symmetry there. Also, who said that was a door? I've always thought it was just a wall with a garage like door retracted underneath.
I don't see much problem with that part of the composite myself.
Because it isn't low enough, it looks like it's floating in the air. If it was a physical building the characters should be standing almost at the foot of the right-hand stepped wall, not so far in front of it. Look at that line on the concrete - it's straight the whole way and shows a straight shadow underneath it, that's straight with the door. On the left that line is under the door and behind the stepped wall, but on the right it's in front of the stepped door. It looks a bit like this:
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
ray_afraid said:
msycamore said:
Ah, based on that pic, I can see how the stepped wall on the right doesn't match the one on the left...
It's weird, the two sides actually do seem to match better when you look at the painting by itself. The perspective of the live plate just messes with the perspective of the painting. (Though I would have assumed it was painted with the live plate being projected for reference - so wouldn't the live plate perspective have been incorporated into the painting? Harrison Ellenshaw did other paintings in the film with perfect perspective, not sure just what happened here...)
But it's far from the worst mangling of perspective and proportion - ever seen the paintings in Star Trek: The Motion Picture when they're exiting the Enterprise to walk to V'ger?
Somewhere, Escher is in a corner crying.
And I especially like the profile view of the saucer that makes the crew look like giants...can't find a picture of that online...
TServo2049 said:
And I especially like the profile view of the saucer that makes the crew look like giants...can't find a picture of that online...
From movie-screencaps.com
The problem with the matte painting is not the geometry; symmetry in design is not a given. The problem is compositing 101, whereby the internal luminence curve and incorrect ambient bounces aren't aligned with the live action plate. If you had the elements separately and could recomposite them, you could sell this shot without changing the painting. That said, it is important to note that part of the loose style of these paintings requires the obfiscation of its nature by film grain; it is the reduction of the grain which really accentuates the textural differences between the glass and the live-action. When this shot is finaled, with the grain returned and balanced for Rec.709/sRGB, you'll see it really works much better.
View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!
Well I still say the perspective is all wrong:
The steps on the right are much smaller than those on the left, but they should be an equal size since they represent the same distance (in fact since they're direct on they're a bit closer) to the ones on the left. You can see the entrance has 4 steps below it on the left, but only 3 on the right. The whole perspective of this shot has never looked right to me.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
For sure the vanishing lines don't match, and the painting is not "shot" with the same lens as the live plate. That's not really arguable; the issue is does this kill the composite. If I'm the compositor on this plate, even with this mismatch you can go a lot farther to selling it with proper internal balance. The audience's attention and length of shot pretty much save it. But absolutely, yes, you need only extend the lines of the courses in the predominant wall and see they're not aligned with the live plate. I've just personally had WAY worse mismatches to deal with in composites before, and it's amazing what you can get away with in certain contexts!
View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!
I guess it's no wonder they redid those shots in the TMP Director's Cut.
Where were you in '77?
Those were good ideas. Working from the restored matte picture, I tried throwing some grain on the big slabs of concrete (only). Re-contrasted the plate. Sharpened & softened the plate & live layers. Extended the "steps" on the right side of the structure and moved the live parties to make room for it. Adjusted the RGB's to "let" the wall's moss show through (bet you didn't know about that one). Put the steps' shadows on the wall where they clearly belonged. Reddened the sky (doesn't show very much up there) and, of course, straightened that wobbly, bottom concrete edge. So, good enough for Mr. Lucas now? :)
TServo2049 said:
And I especially like the profile view of the saucer that makes the crew look like giants...
That's probably from the 1st draft of Star Trek The Motion Picture [subtitled] The Great Bird Of The Galaxy Returns. They even shot the final confrontation ..
It took them awhile to scale down the scope of the story, and the actors, to fit.
:)
View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!
Wow! One of your best videos to date IMHO :-)
Harmy said:
Wow! One of your best videos to date IMHO :-)
Agreed 100%
Wow is right! Amazing in every sense of the word. Really shows the artistry and the creative photography that went into this movie. Also, gives some interesting creative camera advice for those of us who still shoot film... :)
Thanks for that look and your insights on the model photography. In the movie, I had noticed some instances where the motions were so disjointed (or jerky?) that they looked like bad element-matching -- just plain old mistakes. (One cannot put together just anything and still have it look whole.)
What software do you use for this work -- commercially available?
Spaced Ranger said:
What software do you use for this work -- commercially available?
I'm using a combination of proprietary tools (registration, temporal data harvesting, tracking, etc.) and commercial software (Cinnafilm's Dark Energy Pro, PFClean, Resolve, Nuke, even After Effects). I'm working in DCI-P3 colorspace, primarily on a Eizo CG277 monitor, and then about once a week previewing on a Dolby PRM-4200 and Christie 4K projector.
_Mike
View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!
Magnificent demonstration of Star Wars magic !
Well, there's a lesson to take over to PT-Revisited and its ilk! Thanks, Mike, that was really, really interesting.
I remember reading about the starship motion (probably in Rinzler's Making of book), and the basic idea was to have the ships slide and drift around like race cars.
Mind. Blown.
That was the coolest thing I've seen in a long time!
Man, I'm so excited by what is going on in the world of the OT. I can't wait for the day (that I think will be sooner than later with all the hard work people are doing now) when I can sit down and watch a beautiful, restored copy of the original trilogy, all sourced from original film!
Harmy, I LOVE your work, but I think even you'd agree that being able to watch completely original elements with no recreations or facsimiles is the ultimate goal, and I'm so excited to see how close that day might be!
(And yes I know, understand and respect the status of the legacy project and how it will and won't be shared)
Oh, I agree completely! I've always said that I don't consider Despecialized a proper restoration/preservation. It's always been meant to just be something to hold us over until something better comes along, official or otherwise :-)
mverta said:
Spaced Ranger said:
What software do you use for this work -- commercially available?
... proprietary tools and Cinnafilm's Dark Energy Pro PFClean Resolve Nuke After Effects in DCI-P3 colorspace Eizo CG277 monitor Dolby PRM-4200 and Christie 4K projector.
Thanks again. As Blade Runner's Deckard would quip, "Must be expensive." I should start saving up. (Donations of pipe-weed gratefully accepted from all.)
