Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP) — Page 11

Must say I prefer the look of Harmy’s, but I see your point about the contrast. I assume the reference shot you showed is mostly for the contrast/lighting rather than the color. But yours is still a bit dark, IMO. There’s probably a good middle ground on contrast (closer to Dre’s), but I think the most important thing to fix is the skin tone. Surely there’s not a reference that has the bright magenta bags under his eyes? That, his lips, and his ears just look like the screwed up 2004 color that’s still leaking through. 😃

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

I really like how distinct it is from the Blu-ray it is. However, I think you have taken some of the shots too far. I know you are using reference shots but I think the reference shot have their own issues. I’m sticking with the GOUT and the LD’s as the closest we have to the original palet (telecined from Lucasfilm’s pristine print) and I found that if I layer the blu-ray and your color correction that it lands right where I think the colors should be. At least for the Tatooine scenes. I can’t see much wrong with the throne room shot.

And these are spot on for where I am right now trying to color correct them. I have by BR ANH color correction very close so I’m trying to bring the GOUT in line (which requires subtle tweaking) and then I am going to work on some of the troublesome scenes that I think Lucasfilm tinkered with in the HD master. I’m not after a 100% match, just close. These images are pretty on target for where I think these scenes should be.

I always use multiple sources for the regrade, mostly relying on print scans, and still frames, but also the home video releases at times, but I wouldn’t trust the GOUT as a color reference. It was made when the original negative and the interpositives were in very poor shape, and it obviously suffers from the typical 1990s pink/reddish skin tones. Although it is the version of Star Wars many of us remember, I doubt it looked like that in theatres in 1977.

Well, I think it has issues, but minor ones. The Tech IB prints are too green which means they are not accurate, the negative has faded so the Blu-ray is not accurate. The source material for the home video releases (the early ones, the Definitive Edition, the JSC) are all pretty close in most respects. Mostly the suffer from being too bright, lacking contrast. Much easier to fix than the color issues of the other sources. I also feel that they are the most accurate representation of the color variation from scene to scene in the original print. Something I think might be lost by color correcting each scene individually. Now, the Blu-ray does need that individual touch, because we have no idea what color grading they used when they scanned the negative and if it had any relation to the original color grading. But using the GOUT as a starting point gives us the color grading as it was in the theaters from scene to scene. I’m not saying the colors are spot on, but they preserve the variation of the original theatrical color grading. Team Negative 1’s Silver Screen is from various sources and has been color corrected in various ways, so I don’t consider it to be definitive either.

I find the color grading you are using for these Tatooine scenes to be far too yellow and over compensating for the magenta in the blu-ray. R2 looks green instead of blue. And frankly, in the hot desert sun of Tunesia, I believe everyone was looking a bit redder than usual so trying to achieve that perfect skin tone in these scenes doesn’t get you the original look. The images I posted are a 50/50 mix of the blu-ray and your color correction and they match my correction to the GOUT and the Blu-ray. I think the Tarkin scene is overdone leading to magenta blotches on his skin which do not look good and do not match anything I have seen before.

Your tool is doing an excellent job of matching your sources, but it is your sources that I question. Like your source for the throne room seems spot on, but the desert one is far too yellow (that pic you posted of Lucas on set).

The bluray certainly is the worst color reference to use, as it was heavily altered when it was digitally color graded to fit GL’s vision. There literally is nothing authentic in the bluray color grading, as it was scanned directly from the negative and completely regraded. The GOUT, just like any of the laserdisc masters was also regraded, where the brightness and contrast were adjusted on a scene by scene basis to fit the low contrast medium they were made for, so they do not correctly represent the variation in the grading between scenes. Take the JSC, where the R2 canyon scene was noticably brighter than on any print scans we’ve seen. The Technicolor print scans are definitely the most accurate source for both the colors and luminosity, despite the problems of green shifts and other issues that we know of.

The magenta and green blotches in the Tarkin frame are artifacts that are being corrected as I’m writing this. Many of the Tatooine are preliminary. The only gradings the are close to finished are on the first page.

Would this help (click picture for full size)?

Spaced Ranger said:

Would this help (click picture for full size)?

Certainly! It looks like a good quality production photo.

Let’s take a look at the Owen/C-3PO color grading of three official releases and the regrade.

Bluray:

JSC:

GOUT:

Bluray regraded:

The bluray has the most issues, especially considering the time it was made, ranging from a host of color artifacts (green C-3PO, blue on the sandcrawler, ultra-blue R2-D2, where his dome has a green hue, very dark skinned Owen, unnatural brightness and contrast). The JSC is too red, with R2-D2 almost purple, C-3PO too orange, the sand too red, and Owen red faced. The GOUT looks reasonable for this shot, but I feel the regrade, which is based on the Technicolor print scan, and a number of other references, is the most natural looking by far.

Spaced Ranger said:

Would this help (click picture for full size)?

That’s very unsettling.

Here’s an updated color grading for the Tarkin shot:

clutchins said:

I think there’s still a bit of magenta noise on Cushing’s face.

This is not magenta noise. It is supposed to be present. Although the magenta was too apparent in earlier iterations, Peter Cushing had very thin skin, resulting in magenta blodges on his face, especially around the eyes:

DrDre said:

The bluray certainly is the worst color reference to use, as it was heavily altered when it was digitally color graded to fit GL’s vision. There literally is nothing authentic in the bluray color grading, as it was scanned directly from the negative and completely regraded. The GOUT, just like any of the laserdisc masters was also regraded, where the brightness and contrast were adjusted on a scene by scene basis to fit the low contrast medium they were made for, so they do not correctly represent the variation in the grading between scenes. Take the JSC, where the R2 canyon scene was noticably brighter than on any print scans we’ve seen. The Technicolor print scans are definitely the most accurate source for both the colors and luminosity, despite the problems of green shifts and other issues that we know of.

The magenta and green blotches in the Tarkin frame are artifacts that are being corrected as I’m writing this. Many of the Tatooine are preliminary. The only gradings the are close to finished are on the first page.

Well, I agree that that the Technicolor print scan would be the most accurate provided I had a copy and it was a raw scan and the same settings were used for each reel. At present that is not something that is publicly available. Of the sources I have access to, I found the GOUT/Definitive Edition to be the most accurate. With the exception of the opening shot. I have become convinced that was scanned for the first DVD set special feature and edited on for the 2006 DVD release making it a higher generation than the rest (and it looks like it too). And I think you give them too much credit for adjusting scenes. I don’t think they put that much effort into it. I think the entire movie is supposed to be darker and I feel that TN1 SS edition really proves that.

Now, in the four examples you posted above, I find that R2 looks best in both the GOUT and JSC versions. I’m not sure how many R2’s there were or if they featured different paint jobs, but all the Tatooine outdoor shots feature a very bright blue R2 and all of the indoor set shots feature a very dark blue R2. I’ve found R2 to be a good guide as to how accurate the behind the scenes photos are and a great many of them are way off. If he is green, purple, or nearly black, the photo isn’t accurate. If he is bright blue or dark cobalt blue they are in the accurate range. C-3PO is also a good guide, but not as good. If he is too orange or too silver the image isn’t good. He should be a nice yellow gold just slightly to the brassy side instead of the elemental gold. But R2 is much more reliable such as in this behind the scenes photo - http://www.moviestillsdb.com/movies/star-wars-i76759/JcR6OH

I get what you’re saying and don’t think he should be completely scrubbed of that look. But before, he had almost a fluorescent looking magenta tone, especially on the lips (which everyone on the 2004 master has). It’s more reasonable now.

I’m not sure what the correct contrast is. But it probably varies in the different scenes of Tarkin in the same rooms. So educated guesses considering (but not depending on) quality 35mm scans might be best.

Memorex said:

DrDre said:

pittrek said:

The diner scenes look great, the 3PO shot still looks a bit too green.

It needs a bit of fine tuning, but I think this is much better:

Beautiful!

I like this one a lot better than the one you decided was final. It doesn’t have that “green” feeling your final has, especially near the bottom of C3PO and the “yellow” splotches on the sandcrawler. Here those splotches look like a natural part of aged and rusty metal in sand.

Ah… searching for more pics led to this - http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/ba5c5aacb00c284692aa349bb8006836/star-wars.jpg

I’d say this is an ideal image for the Tatooine desert/R2-D2/C-3PO colors and the skin tones (though they are hard to see they are reddish and consistent with the blistering temps in Tunesia).

DrDre said:

clutchins said:

I think there’s still a bit of magenta noise on Cushing’s face.

This is not magenta noise. It is supposed to be present. Although the magenta was too apparent in earlier iterations, Peter Cushing had very thin skin, resulting in magenta blodges on his face, especially around the eyes:

I like this picture. The blodges are not so much magenta as reddish skin. It looks very natural in this image.

NeverarGreat said:

That Tarkin shot looks to be as close to perfect as I can find, with perhaps a bit too much teal in the grays. However the skin tones look good, and the olive of his uniform is good.

Thanks! I will reduce the teal in the grays, but I’m happy with the rest.

yotsuya said:

Ah… searching for more pics led to this - http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/ba5c5aacb00c284692aa349bb8006836/star-wars.jpg

I’d say this is an ideal image for the Tatooine desert/R2-D2/C-3PO colors and the skin tones (though they are hard to see they are reddish and consistent with the blistering temps in Tunesia).

The problem is that the Tatooine desert has a different color depending on location, time of day, and weather conditions, and can range from more yellow, more red and brown. I’ve watched hundreds of production photos, and there’s something unique in all of them.

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Ah… searching for more pics led to this - http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/ba5c5aacb00c284692aa349bb8006836/star-wars.jpg

I’d say this is an ideal image for the Tatooine desert/R2-D2/C-3PO colors and the skin tones (though they are hard to see they are reddish and consistent with the blistering temps in Tunesia).

The problem is that the Tatooine desert has a different color depending on location, time of day, and weather conditions, and can range from more yellow, more red and brown. I’ve watched hundreds of production photos, and there’s something unique in all of them.

Ah, well when just looking at the natural color of the desert, don’t forget to check out all the more recent tourist photos of the old locations as well as Episode II (and those production photos). While I too have noticed some variation, the photos that have that distinct yellow tint do not look very natural and the other elements (such as R2) aren’t the right color in a lot of them. They also tend to have washed out or jaundiced skin tones. You need some red to the skin tones, just not as much as the DVD and Blu-ray have.

From what I’ve seen, that yellow color seems to be indicative of the 1977 production stills and can be found in more than just the desert scenes (like the Death Star, Blockade Runner, Cantina) and does not appear in the more modern photos taken in Tunesia. I don’t think that yellow color is reliable or accurate.

Dreamaster said:

Memorex said:

DrDre said:

pittrek said:

The diner scenes look great, the 3PO shot still looks a bit too green.

It needs a bit of fine tuning, but I think this is much better:

Beautiful!

I like this one a lot better than the one you decided was final. It doesn’t have that “green” feeling your final has, especially near the bottom of C3PO and the “yellow” splotches on the sandcrawler. Here those splotches look like a natural part of aged and rusty metal in sand.

I think I will combine both versions, as there are aspects about both, that I like.

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

Ah… searching for more pics led to this - http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/ba5c5aacb00c284692aa349bb8006836/star-wars.jpg

I’d say this is an ideal image for the Tatooine desert/R2-D2/C-3PO colors and the skin tones (though they are hard to see they are reddish and consistent with the blistering temps in Tunesia).

The problem is that the Tatooine desert has a different color depending on location, time of day, and weather conditions, and can range from more yellow, more red and brown. I’ve watched hundreds of production photos, and there’s something unique in all of them.

Ah, well when just looking at the natural color of the desert, don’t forget to check out all the more recent tourist photos of the old locations as well as Episode II (and those production photos). While I too have noticed some variation, the photos that have that distinct yellow tint do not look very natural and the other elements (such as R2) aren’t the right color in a lot of them. They also tend to have washed out or jaundiced skin tones. You need some red to the skin tones, just not as much as the DVD and Blu-ray have.

From what I’ve seen, that yellow color seems to be indicative of the 1977 production stills and can be found in more than just the desert scenes (like the Death Star, Blockade Runner, Cantina) and does not appear in the more modern photos taken in Tunesia. I don’t think that yellow color is reliable or accurate.

The desert can be yellow and accurate imo. Just look at this photo of one of the Star Wars sets from the prequels:

Not that I’ve come across a shot in ANH that has this desert color, but it’s definitely possible.

Here’s the updated Owen/C-3PO shot:

Looks awesome DrDre! The original Blu Ray picture with the green tint on 3PO always remind me on the movie Excalibur, where colored lights where used on the armour to reflect the mood of the scene.