Star Wars (1977) - a general Random Thoughts thread — Page 5

Emre1601 said:

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Obi-Wan should have left a whoopee cushion in his cloak for Vader to step on, just to troll him one last time.

With some sand in it!

 
 

‘I don’t remember this scene from Star Wars. Uncredited illustration from the Screen Superstar Star Wars special (1977)’: https://twitter.com/retroscifiart/status/1622003462627282945

Nor do I! Poor guy. Or clone. Or robot or monster or whatever he was meant to be at the time.

Is his head meant to still be in the helmet? That Chewy’s bowcaster vaporized the being inside, but not the suit itself?

It kind of looks like the stormtrooper is made of dark magic, like the Argonaut skeletons were in the old Harryhausen era films. I love that image.

It’s possible that the stormtrooper’s head is still in the helmet, but it’s not explicitly shown in the movies. In “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” Chewbacca uses his bowcaster to shoot the stormtrooper, causing an explosion that sends the trooper flying. It’s left to interpretation whether or not the trooper’s head is still inside the helmet. As for the suit remaining intact, it’s likely due to the durability of the stormtrooper armor.

As for the stormtrooper appearing to be made of dark magic, that’s a matter of personal interpretation and opinion. The visual design of the stormtroopers has always been intended to convey a sense of imposing and uniform military might, and the use of dark colors may contribute to that impression.

Interesting that this recent interview with John Williams uses the theatrical opening crawl at one point. Looks like the GOUT unconverted to 16:9 but nonetheless still cool to see it used in more recent media.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYwrW8KMHo&t=218s

I’ve been to page 19 of this thread, and realised there’s 96 pages, and I have no idea how to find anything on this forum. So please let me know if this belongs elsewhere, or if it’s already been discussed (it surely must have been).

I don’t think the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene filmed for Star Wars but only included together in 1997 were ever actually supposed to appear together. I think it was always intended to be one or the other.

They both serve the same purpose of setting up Han’s character and motivation.

They include two very similar lines (“smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of an imperial starcruiser”, “Even I get boarded sometimes. Do you think I had a choice?” I can’t recall the exact lines in both scenes). No script would usually have two such similar lines in two separate conversations in scenes so close to each other. It’s weird.

I don’t know why, if Jabba and his goons were hanging about, they would send Greedo in to talk to Han in the cantina. And Greedo talks as though Jabba doesn’t know Han’s there, but Jabba talks as though he sent Greedo specifically.

If it wasn’t for Jabba’s line about Han frying Greedo, I would be certain they were never meant to both be in the movie. But, although it would be odd, that could be a reference to something that happened days ago off screen.

My understanding is that George Lucas maintains he intended for the Jabba scene to be in the movie, but they lacked the money to create the alien Jabba he wanted using stop motion or something.

That doesn’t feel right to me. Does anyone have more information on these possibilities?

EDIT: And I just remembered another thing that feels off to me. Greedo’s blasting feels like an escalation in his situation from being in debt to being physically under threat. That plays into his urgent need to take on paying passengers, no questions asked. That situation seems diffused by the relative lack of any real tension when he meets Jabba shortly after.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Pete Byrdie said:

I’ve been to page 19 of this thread, and realised there’s 96 pages, and I have no idea how to find anything on this forum. So please let me know if this belongs elsewhere, or if it’s already been discussed (it surely must have been).

I don’t think the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene filmed for Star Wars but only included together in 1997 were ever actually supposed to appear together. I think it was always intended to be one or the other.

I use the Index threads pinned up in each section on here.

The OT Index thread has a Character category and also a mini index for Han Shoots First / Han vs Greedo

and these have some discussions on Jabba and Greedo:

George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist… - categories 9 & 34?

Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes

and most threads on the 1997 and 2004 releases probably have some sort of discussion on the scenes, and the Jabba remodel.
 

There is a search function of sorts; site:originaltrilogy.com jabba or site:originaltrilogy.com greedo

^ from I can’t find the Search function on this site - Is there one? How can I do a search? in General Assistance
 

It is kind of strange putting the 1997 Jabba scene into the film given it mainly repeats information from the previous Greedo. Even Gary Kurtz mentioned it in an interview on it.

Thanks. I’m really struggling to find my way about here.

After I posted, another thought occurred. Almost any dialogue could have been put in Greedo’s snout, and Han’s responses aren’t always necessarily specific. If the two scenes had been intended to be together, I’ll bet there was originally a different dialogue option.

Greedo talks as though Jabba has already given up on Han and has already put a significant price on his head.

Shortly after, Jabba and Han talk as though Greedo is just Jabba’s lackey and Jabba is looking for Han to pay up, threatening only then to put a bounty on his head.

Something’s off about the story at least as I’ve heard it about the Jabba scene always being intended. At least, I think there’s more detail to the story.

Pete Byrdie said:

Greedo talks as though Jabba has already given up on Han and has already put a significant price on his head.

Shortly after, Jabba and Han talk as though Greedo is just Jabba’s lackey and Jabba is looking for Han to pay up, threatening only then to put a bounty on his head.

I agree with all this. Of course, there are ways to rationalize it. Perhaps Greedo is exaggerating Jabba’s anger level in order to trick Han into handing over all the money he owes Jabba - so that Greedo can pocket it, perhaps after killing Han. Greedo tells Han “If you give [the money] to me, I might forget I found you.”

But I agree the whole thing is still very weird - the two scenes are redundant, and suggest entirely different threat levels from Jabba. But early drafts of Star Wars indicate these two scenes were NOT supposed to be mutually exclusive. Both the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene appear together in early drafts, indicating Lucas really did originally want to have both scenes. The best explanation is that Greedo was trying to pocket the money owed to Jabba from Han. His name is “Greedo” after all.

Channel72 said:

Pete Byrdie said:

Greedo talks as though Jabba has already given up on Han and has already put a significant price on his head.

Shortly after, Jabba and Han talk as though Greedo is just Jabba’s lackey and Jabba is looking for Han to pay up, threatening only then to put a bounty on his head.

I agree with all this. Of course, there are ways to rationalize it. Perhaps Greedo is exaggerating Jabba’s anger level in order to trick Han into handing over all the money he owes Jabba - so that Greedo can pocket it, perhaps after killing Han. Greedo tells Han “If you give [the money] to me, I might forget I found you.”

But I agree the whole thing is still very weird - the two scenes are redundant, and suggest entirely different threat levels from Jabba. But early drafts of Star Wars indicate these two scenes were NOT supposed to be mutually exclusive. Both the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene appear together in early drafts, indicating Lucas really did originally want to have both scenes. The best explanation is that Greedo was trying to pocket the money owed to Jabba from Han. His name is “Greedo” after all.

Well, the earliest drafts of the scripts are all we can go by. Honestly, there was a part of me considering that Greedo’s dialogue was originally completely different, and the scene was repurposed when George couldn’t get the Jabba he wanted. I was actually considering looking again at the scene and figuring out what Greedo’s original dialogue might have been given Han’s responses, not that it would have helped because they could easily have chopped and changed the scene in places.

Pete Byrdie said:

My understanding is that George Lucas maintains he intended for the Jabba scene to be in the movie, but they lacked the money to create the alien Jabba he wanted using stop motion or something.

It’s exceedingly likely that Jabba was originally intended to be a human; it’s been covered thoroughly here-
https://web.archive.org/web/20140928112036/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/jabba.html

According to Paul Hirsh (one of the editors) in his biography, Lucas came up with the alien Jabba idea in post-production, but it had to be dropped due to being impossible to achieve with contemporary special effects technology.

Gandalf the Cyan said:

Pete Byrdie said:

My understanding is that George Lucas maintains he intended for the Jabba scene to be in the movie, but they lacked the money to create the alien Jabba he wanted using stop motion or something.

It’s exceedingly likely that Jabba was originally intended to be a human; it’s been covered thoroughly here-
https://web.archive.org/web/20140928112036/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/jabba.html

According to Paul Hirsh (one of the editors) in his biography, Lucas came up with the alien Jabba idea in post-production, but it had to be dropped due to being impossible to achieve with contemporary special effects technology.

My phone’s protection software through a fit when I tried to follow that link. But it makes sense that Jabba was intended to be human during production. That still leaves us with two scenes that just don’t work together. Oh well! Filmmaking is not always a linear process, and in reality the details of the complications of a movie made half a century ago may remain unknowable.

If the original 1977 human Jabba was included in the film, I think he’d be the only human in the OT to speak with an accent that is not either American or British. (He had an Irish accent).

It’s interesting that the OT featured little variation in English-speaking human accents, but a lot of actual alien languages. Beginning with the Prequels and continuing throughout modern Disney Star Wars, we see a much wider variation in human accents (New Zealand, Scottish, etc.), but much less actual alien languages with sub-titles.

Pretty sure Leia was 16 or 17 and Luke 20 - 22.

One random thing I noticed for the first time on my most recent rewatch is the way the Mos Eisley commoners back away in fear as the stormtroopers head toward Docking Bay 94

G&G-Fan said:

In the shooting script, Darth Vader is the one who orders the Death Star technicians to “Release primary ignitions”, thus making him more directly responsible for Alderaan. I wonder why this was changed.

Yet another serendipitous thing that presciently paved the way for Vader to become Anakin Skywalker.

My guess is they changed it because Tarkin dies when the Death Star explodes, but Vader survives. Thus, there is more “poetic justice” if Tarkin was the one who ordered the destruction of Alderaan.

G&G-Fan said:

Channel72 said:

My guess is they changed it because Tarkin dies when the Death Star explodes, but Vader survives. Thus, there is more “poetic justice” if Tarkin was the one who ordered the destruction of Alderaan.

Tarkin still orders the destruction, Vader is just the one who tells them to release the primary ignition.

He’s the link to the script: https://imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope.html

Interesting. Yeah, would be interesting to find out what motivated that change. I think Lucas always had plans for Vader to be somewhat sympathetic, but not necessarily Luke’s father initially. I forget the exact details, but originally Vader was an amalgamation of characters from earlier drafts, including a “Sith Knight” character who was shown to have some redeeming qualities, caring about honor, etc. Darth Vader in A New Hope is also shown to still care about some notion of a code of honor, as he chooses to face Obi Wan alone. Also, Vader is kind of unsupportive of the Death Star in general. Maybe Lucas’ intuition told him that Vader should be distanced from the destruction of Alderaan as much as possible.

It’s similar to how, in the novelization or radio drama of A New Hope, the scene where Leia is tortured is described in more horrifying detail than the movie, but the author also strangely tries to make Vader slightly sympathetic by having him order the guards to provide some comfort to Leia after the torture session fails.

Channel72 said:

Pete Byrdie said:

Greedo talks as though Jabba has already given up on Han and has already put a significant price on his head.

Shortly after, Jabba and Han talk as though Greedo is just Jabba’s lackey and Jabba is looking for Han to pay up, threatening only then to put a bounty on his head.

I agree with all this. Of course, there are ways to rationalize it. Perhaps Greedo is exaggerating Jabba’s anger level in order to trick Han into handing over all the money he owes Jabba - so that Greedo can pocket it, perhaps after killing Han. Greedo tells Han “If you give [the money] to me, I might forget I found you.”

But I agree the whole thing is still very weird - the two scenes are redundant, and suggest entirely different threat levels from Jabba. But early drafts of Star Wars indicate these two scenes were NOT supposed to be mutually exclusive. Both the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene appear together in early drafts, indicating Lucas really did originally want to have both scenes. The best explanation is that Greedo was trying to pocket the money owed to Jabba from Han. His name is “Greedo” after all.

What you linked to isn’t an early draft of the script, but rather a version of the script created after the release of the movie and published in 1979.

Here’s the shooting script:

https://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/star-wars-the-adventures-of-luke-starkiller-revised-fourth-draft/

G&G-Fan said:

How long did Luke know Ben, in the context of the OT?

To me, it always felt like they knew each other for awhile, but couldn’t see each other often because of Owen. They seem familiar with one another in their scenes together.

“Ben! Boy am I glad to see you.”

“Tell me young Luke, what brings you out this far?”

Whether or not they knew each other for awhile, I’ve never agreed with the criticism of Luke for being too sad when he dies. Luke is a person who grows to care for people fast. Likely because he doesn’t seem to have many friends on Tatooine left.

Luke about R2 near the end of the movie, after a couple days with him:
“Not on your life! That little droid and I have been through a lot together.”

Yeah it’s not that obvious, although he just calls him a strange old hermit earlier on, rather than anything more formal.