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(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original? — Page 3

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

IsanRido said:

Originality/subversion alone doesn’t do anything. However, if we’re dealing with a good film that features competent writing, direction and acting, would you think its quality be hurt if you saw the villain wearing white robes and using a blue lightsaber?

Yes however little. It would be a unnecesarily misleading and confusing design choice. Why make the bad guy look so much like the good guys? It’s not even really that original and detracts from the story.

Exactly. In a word, it would be stupid.

Stupid is right. It’s just that SW had a certain aesthetic to it, and removing that aesthetic obscures the idea that your watching a sequel to SW. There were certain “rules” for lack of a better word. It was based upon several old ideas, from '30s-'40s sci-fi/fantasy serials, to Dune, to WWII films. Taking out the aesthetics of SW would make TFA even worse than it already is. Like I said, Darth had a red blade for a reason, and Obi-Wan had a blue blade for a reason. Same with the black vs. white outfits. It creates a distinguishable contrast of good and evil. The Empire and the Rebellion was black and white.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Is it just me or are both sides placing waaayyy too much importance on lightsaber colors?

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Oh, this guy is just oh so warm, friendly, and inviting,

He also doesn’t look very much like something from Star Wars.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

ray_afraid said:

The “all the bad guys- and only the bad guys- have red lightsabers” is a prequelism I can do without.

It’s not a prequelism.

Yes, it is. Or are there other darksiders in the OT with red lightsabers aside from Vader I’m unaware of?

The reason Darth had a red saber in Star Wars was to create the simple contrast of good and evil, just like everything else in the film.

That’s an out of universe reason. There’s no reason to think it’s an in-universe reason going off the OT alone.

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Nobody complains about the fact that in the OT, the Imperial ships use green lasers and the Rebel ships use red lasers.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

ray_afraid said:

The “all the bad guys- and only the bad guys- have red lightsabers” is a prequelism I can do without.

It’s not a prequelism.

Yes, it is. Or are there other darksiders in the OT with red lightsabers aside from Vader I’m unaware of?

Just because there weren’t any others doesn’t change the fact that it was used to portray evil and to contrast with the good, portrayed by blue. If there was another evil lightsaber-wielder in the OT, he would have had a red blade to keep the feel. A real prequelism is giving all darkside force users the name “Darth” as a title, rather than it being Vader’s first name.

The reason Darth had a red saber in Star Wars was to create the simple contrast of good and evil, just like everything else in the film.

That’s an out of universe reason. There’s no reason to think it’s an in-universe reason going off the OT alone.

Why does it matter if there’s a specific in-universe explanation for it? It’s a specific aesthetic that was used to portray something in the film(s). I never said there was an in-universe reason, I just don’t think something such as this needs one.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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darklordoftech said:

Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Oh, this guy is just oh so warm, friendly, and inviting,

He also doesn’t look very much like something from Star Wars.

Just because of his lightsaber color?

No.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Dek Rollins said:

Just because there weren’t any others doesn’t change the fact that it was used to portray evil and to contrast with the good, portrayed by blue. If there was another evil lightsaber-wielder in the OT, he would have had a red blade to keep the feel. A real prequelism is giving all darkside force users the name “Darth” as a title, rather than it being Vader’s first name.

The reason Darth had a red saber in Star Wars was to create the simple contrast of good and evil, just like everything else in the film.

That’s an out of universe reason. There’s no reason to think it’s an in-universe reason going off the OT alone.

Why does it matter if there’s a specific in-universe explanation for it? It’s a specific aesthetic that was used to portray something in the film(s). I never said there was an in-universe reason, I just don’t think something such as this needs one.

When I was a kid I thought his name was “Dark Vader,” which I think supports the idea that the aesthetics were very important to highlighting the contrast between good and evil, if for no other reason than the refined black and red aesthetic of Vader contrasted sharply with the more rugged, “monkish” earth tones and blue saber of Ben—an aesthetic which is repeated in TFA with the Rey-Kylo face off.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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I like all of the characters. The whole movie should have been “The Search For Luke”. Rey and Fin go looking for Luke and find Han who shepards them across the galaxy from planet to planet as they look for clues. No maps involved! The movie is a mystery story and through the search we learn about happened over the last 30 years. The galaxy is a mess. Leia and the gang are trying to make order buy the New Order is rising like Hitler in Nazi Germany. Fin should have been tortured and abused for his disobedience. Han is out looking for his son. When he see’s Leia she should hug him and then slap him across the face. Then they all end up in the Jedi temple at the end of the film.

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Snoke came off as Palpatine with a new name. Did they have to have another character who’s scarred, uses a giant hologram, corrupts Skywalkers, has a gravelly voice, is mysterious, and rules a fascist regime?

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The idea of a map in itself doesn’t bother me, but I’d prefer it wasn’t a literal puzzle piece. If R2-D2 has the entire map save that one little chunk that Poe picked up in the beginning, why couldn’t he reveal it earlier so that the Resistance could do their own survey of that one discreet region of the galaxy? If R2’s map had been smaller and BB-8’s had been larger, it would have been much more believable.

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darklordoftech said:

has a gravelly voice

Palpatine didn’t have a gravely voice in the OT. I’m not even sure why they changed his voice slightly after Mace melts his face off in ROTS.

As for him being mysterious he’s supposed to be that way in TFA. Did you expect for them to lay out his entire backstory in the film? Also his backstory and further development of him as a character could differentiate him from Palpatine quite a bit.

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Dek Rollins said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

ray_afraid said:

The “all the bad guys- and only the bad guys- have red lightsabers” is a prequelism I can do without.

It’s not a prequelism.

Yes, it is. Or are there other darksiders in the OT with red lightsabers aside from Vader I’m unaware of?

Just because there weren’t any others doesn’t change the fact that it was used to portray evil and to contrast with the good, portrayed by blue.

This isn’t in dispute. However, just because red=bad/blue=good in the OT doesn’t mean that red=bad/good=bad has to be applied universally to every Force-wielder in every SW movie.

If there was another evil lightsaber-wielder in the OT, he would have had a red blade to keep the feel.

Probably. Since it never happened, though, the point’s moot.

The reason Darth had a red saber in Star Wars was to create the simple contrast of good and evil, just like everything else in the film.

That’s an out of universe reason. There’s no reason to think it’s an in-universe reason going off the OT alone.

Why does it matter if there’s a specific in-universe explanation for it? It’s a specific aesthetic that was used to portray something in the film(s). I never said there was an in-universe reason, I just don’t think something such as this needs one.

I care about variety – variety in fictional characters, variety in how they’re characterized, variety in their physical appearance, variety in their dress, etc. I like heroes like Superman and villains like Leatherface, but I also like heroes like Quasimodo and villains like Prince Humperdinck; variety is the spice of life, after all.

At this point, there’s little variety in the heroes/villains of the SW franchise – especially the villains – and I’m bored with the monotony.

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ray_afraid said:

Dek Rollins said:

IsanRido said:

-Kylo’s saber ought to be a different color, to eliminate the “bad guise use red” cliche.

No. We’re trying to make a good SW film, not some fan-fiction.

I gotta agree with Isan. The “all the bad guys- and only the bad guys- have red lightsabers” is a prequelism I can do without.

One villain in TFA emulating his hero does not a prequelism make.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

At this point, there’s little variety in the heroes/villains of the SW franchise – especially the villains – and I’m bored with the monotony.

Do ya know what I think of this? It’s about time they stopped making Star Wars films. The OT doesn’t need a trilogy behind it and another in front. It was a complete story, and whatever wasn’t shown to you in the films was laid out in exposition, or implied, or simply left to imagination. I don’t want endless sequels coming after every fairytale that ends in “they all lived happily ever after”, because the story is finished. You can tell that SW is done because it’s boring now, unless you make it not a SW film, and I know I don’t want that.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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I agree that the OT doesn’t need prequels nor sequels. Like me, you probably see SW from an artistic point of view, but Disney/LF want more, so here we go 😄
In any case, a solution for making better sequels was already found years ago: in a way, TESB was not a SW film (or at least not like the original SW), yet most of us love it. Why? Because it was well crafted, it was able to stay true to the original movie, while expanding it with new concepts: a perfect balance.
So it was possible. I just wish they’d kept trying going into that bold direction for the ST.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Considering how bad of an ending ROTJ had I’m glad they made sequels just on that basis alone. Never mind that it’s possible however unlikely that the ST could be better than the OT.

EDIT:

John Doom said:
So it was possible. I just wish they’d kept trying going into that bold direction for the ST.

You’re acting like we’re not getting 2 sequels. There’s more than enough time for bold stories to be told.

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Lord Haseo said:
And the destruction of the Republic Fleet. That’s going to play a big role in the rest of the ST. I’m glad that it’s gone but at the very least it’s going to impact things in the future.

It just seemed to me that blowing up the new republic and the entire fleet (like they would all just happen to be parked at that planet anyway) was just an excuse to go back to the way the OT was: a small band of people fighting a powerful enemy. We’re basically where we were at after ANH.

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mfastx said:

Lord Haseo said:
And the destruction of the Republic Fleet. That’s going to play a big role in the rest of the ST. I’m glad that it’s gone but at the very least it’s going to impact things in the future.

It just seemed to me that blowing up the new republic and the entire fleet (like they would all just happen to be parked at that planet anyway) was just an excuse to go back to the way the OT was: a small band of people fighting a powerful enemy. We’re basically where we were at after ANH.

Kind of but not really. Sure The Resistance doesn’t have much but The First Order didn’t have nearly as much soldiers and weaponry as The Empire did and that was even before the destruction of Starkiller Base. If anything it’s more equal than it was in the OT.

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John Doom said:

I agree that the OT doesn’t need prequels nor sequels. Like me, you probably see SW from an artistic point of view…

Yes! Thank you for apparently being the only other person on this board who thinks that way.

In any case, a solution for making better sequels was already found years ago: in a way, TESB was not a SW film (or at least not like the original SW), yet most of us love it. Why? Because it was well crafted, it was able to stay true to the original movie, while expanding it with new concepts: a perfect balance.
So it was possible. I just wish they’d kept trying going into that bold direction for the ST.

The thing is, though, Empire still kept the same characters intact, and along with Jedi, it finished a furthered story of our heroes’ fight against the Empire. We still had Luke and Vader, and the same specific conflict to finish, so it didn’t get old in the three films that it took. In the ST we have new characters to fill the same old roles, and a new conflict to emulate the same old conflict, so it feels oddly contrived, and not very original, and it’s getting old. From my point of view the ST is evi… I mean it’ll be impossible to make the ST work because of this problem.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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mfastx said:

Lord Haseo said:
And the destruction of the Republic Fleet. That’s going to play a big role in the rest of the ST. I’m glad that it’s gone but at the very least it’s going to impact things in the future.

It just seemed to me that blowing up the new republic and the entire fleet (like they would all just happen to be parked at that planet anyway) was just an excuse to go back to the way the OT was: a small band of people fighting a powerful enemy. We’re basically where we were at after ANH.

I was also dissappointed that TFA backed VIII and IX into a corner in which we’ll never see the Republic fleet. I’d love to see the Republic fleet in action at some point.