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"Always those pesky Vadergrams ..."
STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1114
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I did some error pics for Bespin escape to make things more clear
I know you are aware of the no sparks or smoke Ady when this storm trooper get's shot... But the other thing to perhaps note is the sudden cut to the sound of the distressed crowd... Perhaps some screams in the background would help carry the sense that chewie is still in the same area or close by to Lando and Leia.
Errors
Another error When Leia Runs for the door the Lights are also off as they used the same set... And on that shot of Leia running is where the other interpretation can come from and it get's interesting.
The Way it is in the original... In this instance storm troopers to be correctly mirrored should be coming from Right to left to create the funnel effect of fighting on 2 fronts
The other way to see it is that they are fighting Storm Troopers on only one side... In Which case only this shot would need flipping and perhaps Leia taking cover and being pulled away but a more comprehensively doctored up to make sense...
So far as Chewie shooting the storm trooper coming down the stairs is concerned I think this is an editing goof.. Chewie cannot see the stairs from where he is standing only Leia can... So to keep continuity Perhaps the backround could be altered i.e. remove the stairs to make this work as chewie correctly shoots a storm trooper in view of what he can see?
Not sure how you will approach this or if you even see it as a problem but I thought I would do a more clear explanation of the scene and however you decide to interpret it there is no right or wrong just different interpretations but I hope you do agree that there is issues with it?
And it's obviously not your fault... Just trying to get this scene working much better than it currently stands in the movie.
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Interesting analysis.
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Ronster, you seem to be over-thinking this scene, but in your fixing , you are creating more problems. If you have leia coming from that direction in the end then she would be in front of Chewie the whole time. Plus the screams need only be there when they are running past the people. there is a passage to time between that shot and them reaching the platform door and chewie and R2 are behind Lando and leia. Chewie covers the way the came and Leia covers the other direction. You seem so concerned about chewie shooting stormtroopers in the wrong area, but to fix it you are flipping shots to create continuity problems. But did you notice that the first close-up shot of the stormtroopers by the stairs being shot (by Leia) is actually set AFTER the stormtrooper that is shot by chewie as the rear trooper can be seen stepping over the dead body of the dead one?
But the other fixes you spoke of (lights turned out and no smoke or sparks on shot trooper) have already been fixed a while ago. Unfortunately the video i posted on youtube has been blocked so has now been deleted.
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adywan said:
Ronster, you seem to be over-thinking this scene, but in your fixing , you are creating more problems. If you have leia coming from that direction in the end then she would be in front of Chewie the whole time. Plus the screams need only be there when they are running past the people. there is a passage to time between that shot and them reaching the platform door and chewie and R2 are behind Lando and leia. Chewie covers the way the came and Leia covers the other direction. You seem so concerned about chewie shooting stormtroopers in the wrong area, but to fix it you are flipping shots to create continuity problems. But did you notice that the first close-up shot of the stormtroopers by the stairs being shot (by Leia) is actually set AFTER the stormtrooper that is shot by chewie as the rear trooper can be seen stepping over the dead body of the dead one?
But the other fixes you spoke of (lights turned out and no smoke or sparks on shot trooper) have already been fixed a while ago. Unfortunately the video i posted on youtube has been blocked so has now been deleted.
No Problem Ady, I am not trying to cause you a headache, Perhaps you are right and I have over thought it... I certainly do not have any hard pressed opinions on this scene only that I think it can be interpreted in a few different ways.
The edit I did was only to display that It does not look right that chewie shoots a storm trooper on the stairs of which he has no view of any stairs from the over the shoulder shots. and creating a funnel effect of fighting on 2 fronts.
I would really hate the music to be messed up in this scene because it is an amazing moment so that small edit was not a suggestion but to show you what I was trying to say. As a last thought I wonder if the footage could be re-synched to the soundtrack as a fix?
If Leia leaves from left to right I don't think it would cause a problem because chewie has already left no matter what he is on the platform when leia runs for it meaning Leia in the fire fight would have her back to the falcon. And you would not see the landing Platform out the window as this would be looking off away from this area. funily enough Lando would also look the correct way over his shoulder... lol
Leia would be back tracking via the tunnel on left to cover chewie there is a tunnel on this side too and it stops him getting flanked via this tunnel.
The first close up shot of leia shooting has 3 troopers and none of them step over anyone the first trooper get's shot? The trooper stepping over dead one in chewies area is correct nothing wrong with it.
I am talking about seeing a close up of chewie shoot then stromtrooper on the stairs gets killed by a laser blast. This one below.
The next shot is a storm trooper on the stairs being shot suggesting chewie kills this one. when he cannot see the stairs
Honestly this scene is confusing and there is a lot going on and I certainly don't want to have an argument of whats what at all, but I did my homework on it and I am sure you have too. I will leave it there and say no more on it and I am sure I will be happy with however you interpret it but I wanted to air what I spotted for your benefit that was all and thanks for reading Ady I really appreciate it.
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Last full day for the 3rd Unit auction to raise funds for our ROTJ:R shoot. Good luck to all bidders!
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Ronster said:
The first close up shot of leia shooting has 3 troopers and none of them step over anyone the first trooper get's shot? The trooper stepping over dead one in chewies area is correct nothing wrong with it.
Check it again. this is the first close-up we see of the stormtroopers getting shot and it's leia doing the shooting> keep you eye on the stormtooper i've marked with the arrow.
You can plainly see he is stepping over the body of the stormtrooper that doesn't die until Chewie shoots him later.
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Not meaning to lead the current discussion off on a tangent, but seeing all those sparks reminded me of another scene and I just wanted to quickly ask if anyone else thinks this is a good idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-mZxhprVQ
I think whoever created that had the right idea of adding some sparks there.
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adywan said:
Ronster said:
The first close up shot of leia shooting has 3 troopers and none of them step over anyone the first trooper get's shot? The trooper stepping over dead one in chewies area is correct nothing wrong with it.
Check it again. this is the first close-up we see of the stormtroopers getting shot and it's leia doing the shooting> keep you eye on the stormtooper i've marked with the arrow.
You can plainly see he is stepping over the body of the stormtrooper that doesn't die until Chewie shoots him later.
That is exactly the way I see it... So that raises another question....
If Leia runs as in the original from the tunnel from Right to left to escape... that to me suggests that Leia and Chewie have their backs to one another either side of the door. Chewie and Leia are mirrored back to back in the footage.
That is why I see it as impossible that chewie shoots this trooper. Even if she ran the other way (both Leia and Chewie face the similar direction) I still see it as impossible because chewbacca is shooting a trooper that is from a completely different area that he cannot possibly see.
When chewie shoots we don't see any other laser blasts other than his, same for Leia so again this tells us that Leia and chewie are fighting in different areas and not the same section.
*edit* there is a stray bolt when Leia shoots first trooper that flys in from right to left (first pic you posted) which I think confuses things even more can't be Lando because he don't have a gun until Chewie gives it to him later. I think this adds more weight to Leia running left to right to escape TBH but for that to be correct the stray bolt should be coming from left to right.
lol out my incredibly crap diagram!!! It is in fact incorrect that the stairs by the footage should be mirrored at the same angle on chewies side as leias side by the footage I did change this to mirror the other side and make it symmetrical because it is this way when they chase after Boba fett so I made it symmetrical.
The 2 sets of stairs should run parallel going by the footage
So the question I guess is do you interpret them fighting either side of the door with their backs to one another?
or either side of the door facing the same direction?
or do you see them fighting in the same side of the door?
Like I said there is no right or wrong only different ways of seeing it...And which ever way you see it it's not a big deal to me, I am sure it will be great.
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adywan said:
Ronster said:
The first close up shot of leia shooting has 3 troopers and none of them step over anyone the first trooper get's shot? The trooper stepping over dead one in chewies area is correct nothing wrong with it.
Check it again. this is the first close-up we see of the stormtroopers getting shot and it's leia doing the shooting> keep you eye on the stormtooper i've marked with the arrow.
You can plainly see he is stepping over the body of the stormtrooper that doesn't die until Chewie shoots him later.
The colors are changing between these two images. Is this deliberate or it will need fixing later?
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.Mac. said:
Not meaning to lead the current discussion off on a tangent, but seeing all those sparks reminded me of another scene and I just wanted to quickly ask if anyone else thinks this is a good idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-mZxhprVQ
I think whoever created that had the right idea of adding some sparks there.
That would be me. :)
If I'm not mistaken in my recollection, Ady mentioned adding a flash there instead of sparks. I'm good with that, but I'm hoping when it comes to the audio side of the edit, something similar to the sound I added will be used to make the lightsaber not sound like a bat hitting a metal grating.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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oh_riginal said:
make the lightsaber not sound like a bat hitting a metal grating..Mac. said:
Not meaning to lead the current discussion off on a tangent, but seeing all those sparks reminded me of another scene and I just wanted to quickly ask if anyone else thinks this is a good idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-mZxhprVQ
I think whoever created that had the right idea of adding some sparks there.
Sorry but,
"like a bat hitting a metal grating" = what a lightsaber sounds like.
The above clip ruins Burtt's beautiful sound design. Also for that matter...
"hitting a radio tower mooring cable with a spanner" = what a lightsaber sounds like.
"driving a heated piece of metal into a block of ice" = what a lightsaber sounds like.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
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I think the general idea of there being some sort of reaction is a good one to the lightsabre hitting the floor
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@ oh_riginal
was the "Han Solo Prediction" also from you ?
interesting, I had always thought he used his instruments, scanners and therefore could say that behind the ridge would be a cave ...
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brimforge said:
@ oh_riginal
was the "Han Solo Prediction" also from you ?
interesting, I had always thought he used his instruments, scanners and therefore could say that behind the ridge would be a cave ...
Yeah, I did that one too, and plenty more, though a lot of them were blocked by youtube.
In one of those prediction videos (there was two) I put a mockup of having the little screen in the middle of the cockpit lit up to show that it was functioning. I figured it might be a subtle fix for what bugs me about the timing of his dialogue and the reveal of the cave. But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes unchanged altogether, and it's something I can live with.
Edit: Upon realizing that this was one of the unblocked videos, I decided to supply the link. The mockup I speak of can be seen around the 1:54 mark. It's a rough idea, but one I'd still like to see, and it would be one of the easier changes to add in at the last second, if Ady decided to use it.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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I think your second video works much better...and is a ridiculously simple fix for something that's also bothered me for years.
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^ I agree that the "2nd attempt" video works very well. A nice simple fix.
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if the version with the inserted cave could be made to look better, I rather have that ;-)
but "adding the monitor" is ok too - hope that folks notice it ...
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The monitor changes nothing....he's got all kinds of gadgets he could be using to "detect" the cave....problem is, he points out the window.....
Delaying the line works perfectly as it makes it seem like he has a good feeling about the approaching crater....which he then confirms when he spots an adequate cave in said crater.......it's dead simple, and it totally solves the problem.
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muddyknees2000 said:
The monitor changes nothing....he's got all kinds of gadgets he could be using to "detect" the cave....problem is, he points out the window.....
Delaying the line works perfectly as it makes it seem like he has a good feeling about the approaching crater....which he then confirms when he spots an adequate cave in said crater.......it's dead simple, and it totally solves the problem.
I wonder how many people would miss the first half of 3PO's line there at the end. I found it more amusing with the "excuse me, ma'am" removed" personally, but I could see purists seeing it in a negative light.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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I forget who brought this idea up before, but I remember liking the idea of changing the angle of the shot when the Falcon enters the cave so that it looks like it is coming in a downward angle instead of going left to right. The only issue is filling in the empty space created at the sides when flipping the shot to it's side.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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If memory serves me correctly Ady had a model of the Canyon built. What are the odds that he is aware of this little ditty and has already fixed this scene?! ;-)
“Did you know, the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?! Look it up.”
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brimforge said:
if the version with the inserted cave could be made to look better, I rather have that ;-)
but "adding the monitor" is ok too - hope that folks notice it ...
Watch his "2nd attempt" video to see what me and Muddy are talking about.
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Agreed. Definitely a logical change that needs to be implemented. Probably one of the rare instances where an actual edit is warranted.
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Thought I would come in and kick an old tin can about..
I hate highlighting errors and not trying to suggest a fix or multiple fixes so one more suggestion for Chewie shooting a stormtrooper he cannot see is replacing the footage of Chewie peeping around the corner with a close up of Leias gun shooting from the previous shot where she bags a trooper timed to the soundtrack.
I would like to say an apology also because I am not so pleased about my final conclusion on the analysis of Bespin escape in fact quite shocked, and although I was laughing It was not meant to be aimed at anyone and did not intend to come across in an undermining way if it was percieved that way.