Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 87

I reiterate:

Lord Haseo said:
Now, I think it’d be better if we got back to talking about Star Wars.

There’s no doubt Lord Vader wad reveling in their suffering but he was killing the Rebels so fast after the first volley of Blaster fire that I can’t imagine him being more proficient. I felt a real sense of urgency on his part even to the last frame before the ship takes off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtAjvIIkB8I

Interesting real time motion capture

In order to go back to the point, Hulk has finally released his analysis. He liked the first half of the movie, didn’t like how the set up of the first half was used to conclude everything.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/21/rogue-one-film-crit-hulk-the-slippery-sloping-story-of-rogue-one

His take on the second Vader scene is something, as you can read, I can very much agree with:

My core issues with this film’s dramatic engine are summed up in the ending that follows… I’m talking about everything surrounding the Darth Vader hallway scene.
Now, when it comes to this intense unleashing of menace and chaos, it’s everything we’ve ever wanted, right? It’s filmed in a scary way! With smart execution and real brutality! From Vader!
Too bad it’s after our climax has already occurred. It’s a sequence where we already know exactly what’s going to happen (the plans are going to get to Leia) and involves a bunch of faceless nobodies. This just turns into gore horror movie logic. Let’s show the “bad guy” character we indulgently like kicking ass! Which is why people clap and cheer, all as part of the most puerile reversing and misunderstanding of Vader-worship. To me, it’s the exact same kind of bastardization as the pun, but this time the betrayal is for indulgent bullshit. You can say this is an extreme opinion, but I am not backing down from this.

New Featurette Rogue One Locations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzY8Mi4G04g

It Show’s more scenes of The Journey of the Pilgrims to Jedha City. Looks Amazing!

Still Promoting Deleted scenes!

There is no misunderstanding of Vader worship. People have been wanting to see Vader kill Rebels with his own hands for decades. If anything Gareth knew exactly what most people wanted.

MalàStrana said:

Tobar said:

ROTS literally has him slaughtering children but a hallway of soldiers is a step too far?

Oh yeah I forgot about that ! But we don’t see him doing that, and he’s the main character of the movie, not a random dude killing random extras. But I don’t like it either. If he really wanted the plans he could have got them with the Force. The scene is totally dumb.

I think you are missing the point that it was not really about killing Extra’s but Vader was trying to get the plans back. There was a group of soldiers shooting guns in between the plan’s and Vader.

What would you do? I think you would be dead and riddled with laser beams.

Vader very nearly got the plan’s back. Just because you could not come anywhere close to performing such a task.

😃

Also making no bones about it I’d be dead If I tried to do that too.

darthrush said:

Mavimao said:

Bobo Jameson said:

Alderaan said:

When did Lord Haseo jump the shark? I mean his views on the movies were always bad, but I remember him at least being pleasant about it. Now every post is **** this and you’re an ass that. Try being more civil and don’t take it so personal when people have different taste than you.

Edit: well, I guess the post about wanting to see Vader kill Jedi shines a light on things. The dark side is strong in this one.

The reason that Lord Haseo called malastrana an ass is because malastrana keeps talking out of his ass! Why is it that people that rates Rogue One a 0 out of 10 is pampered on this lousy ass forum?!

It’s not called being pampered, it’s called being civil. We are allowed to agree/disagree, preferably explaining why we feel what we feel.

Being uncivil is resorting to childish acts like namecalling. We refrain from that here.

This!

Like I’ve said before, I don’t agree with Mala but I respect his opinion. I read why he didn’t like the movie and responded why I liked it. All done in a civil, respectful manner. That’s how discussing film should be. Degrading the value of other people’s opinions just because they give a 0/10 to a movie is childish and just starts issues.

I’m not defending Bobo with this statement…but giving Rogue One a 0/10 is also childish and just starts issues, exactly as Mala intended. No different than saying Daisy has a squirrel face, or (as a better example) if you like her acting it’s because you’re thinking with your dick. It’s all meant to provoke a negative reaction, which is the very definition of being a troll.

@Frink

There is the grade (0/10) and there is the talking (a few posts in this very topic). Obviously you don’t read the text, only the grade (and the “punchlines”). So don’t feel trolled if you’re just looking at getting trolled…

Now, back to the movie.

Lord Haseo said:

People have been wanting to see Vader kill Rebels with his own hands for decades. If anything Gareth knew exactly what most people wanted.

This is exactly why it felt like a fan film to me. It’s not something Vader would have done in the original films, it’s what the fans wanted him to do. It’s the same reasoning we had CGI Yoda bounce around in Attack of the Clones.

MalàStrana said:

@Frink

There is the grade (0/10) and there is the talking (a few posts in this very topic). Obviously you don’t read the text, only the grade (and the “punchlines”). So don’t feel trolled if you’re just looking at getting trolled…

I do believe you honestly disliked the movie quite a bit, and you’ve stated your reasons why after the fact, so I’ve got no problem with that. But the initial review of “it sucked 0/10 lololol” was trolling plain and simple.

Handman said:

Lord Haseo said:

People have been wanting to see Vader kill Rebels with his own hands for decades. If anything Gareth knew exactly what most people wanted.

This is exactly why it felt like a fan film to me. It’s not something Vader would have done in the original films, it’s what the fans wanted him to do. It’s the same reasoning we had CGI Yoda bounce around in Attack of the Clones.

Nobody ever wanted to see Yoda doing somersaults with a light saber did they?

I certainly don’t recall anyone ever complaining about Yoda ad infinitum.

You can’t say the same for Vader unfortunately. That walk through the Hoth Base really kind of started it all.

Handman said:

Lord Haseo said:

People have been wanting to see Vader kill Rebels with his own hands for decades. If anything Gareth knew exactly what most people wanted.

This is exactly why it felt like a fan film to me. It’s not something Vader would have done in the original films, it’s what the fans wanted him to do. It’s the same reasoning we had CGI Yoda bounce around in Attack of the Clones.

As Ronster said before no one wanted that but George and secondly given the limited time he had yes he would. It can definitely be for fan pleasing purposes, consistency with his character and to add tension and a sense of urgency to the climax of the film. Also let’s not forget that Vader got brutish with Luke in ESB.

ZkinandBonez said:

And as for the main characters abandoning Saw’s men to die. I noticed while watching the film that all of his men had disappeared to somewhere before K-2SO showed up with the U-Wing.

I was also paying extra close attention to Vader’s speech during his first appearance this time around. I don’t really have too much to add, other than that I personally can’t hear anything wrong with it other than that James Earl Jones doesn’t quite have that extra punch in his voice anymore (which is to be expected at his age). But I honestly can’t find the big flaws in his dialogue or the incorrect voice modulation that some people are talking about. I honestly couldn’t hear it. I’m not doubting that it is ever so slightly different, after all imitating analogue sound editing form the 70’s can’t be too easy, but I fail to hear anything overly wrong with it.
(PS. Most of the redness of his eyes are reflections from the red lights in his lair, not from the eyes themselves.)

I also agree that there wasn’t really much to suggest to Vader that the rebel at the end of the hallway had the DS plans. Vader’s only goal was to get into the ship before it escaped.

Just FYI you can see the Partisans group around some X-wing’s briefly (with the black & white paint job) during the Death Star firing at the city you do not however see them leave and you don’t unfortunately see them show up on Scarif. Those scenes were cut.

From Making Star Wars. I think he makes some fair points.

While I am speculating about reshoots, alternate cuts, and what might have been, I might as go all the way and talk about some story flaws that I saw in the film and changes I would have liked to seen made to the film

Problem #1: Galen’s Message

Galen recorded a fairly long holographic message that talked about a flaw he placed in the Death Star that was smuggled out by Bodhi. Galen could have saved a lot of lives, Rebellion material, and his daughter’s life by simply explaining the flaw and how to exploit it in the hologram. This is the biggest problem in the film’s story. He may not have been able to include a schematic, but should have been able to explain in enough detail to at least match a wire frame diagram and allow the Rebels to follow a trench to a thermal exhaust port.

Problem #2: Rebel Communications

How is it possible that Raddus’s flagship the Profundity was the only ship to receive the broadcast of the Death Star plans? Wouldn’t he have ordered all Rebel ships to attempt to receive any message from the surface? Clearly they did this to make the Vader chase, plan relay, and Tantive IV escape make sense. But if you stop and think about it, there is little reason more than one copy of the plans shouldn’t be in Rebel hands. The only way a single copy of the plans makes sense is if it a physical copy smuggled off planet not a broadcast.

Problem #3: The Senators’ Plan

The Rebel senators’ plan seems to be two-fold. They need to capture Galen Erso so that they can learn how to stop the superweapon. But they also plan to have him testify before the Senate to take down Palpatine. The former makes sense; the latter is crazy. Even during the Old Republic the Senate was neutered in power, and during the Empire even more so until the Senate was dissolved. To think they could use Erso as a witness against Palpatine and that Palpatine would allow that to threaten his power is ludicrous. The fact that one of the highest ranking Rebel officers, Alliance Intelligence General Draven, is actively working to undermine both of these plans is also something that isn’t really addressed in the film. Is he freelancing or is Mon Mothma winking and nodding him to give Cassian the assassination order?

Problem #4: Stardust

Galen’s nickname for his daughter is Stardust; it is cute and something that the use of it again in his death scene helps humanize the character. My problem is that I don’t buy that the Empire would change the Death Star’s design plans to codename “Stardust.” Galen was a Kyber crystal and energy researcher. Even if as the film states he kept himself important to the Death Star development, he didn’t and wouldn’t have designed a large portion of the station. I can see if the superlaser had a separate file and code name that it could be called “Stardust,” but the idea that the entire project would be renamed for Galen’s daughter is beyond far-fetched.

There are other smaller issues you could pick at if you really wanted to: Why does the Empire install a fast-pass code to ships to get through the shield gate when ships are stolen like every other day in Star Wars? Why do the Rebels have better data storage tech than the Empire? Why does it take Imperials so long to scramble defensive craft and where were the turbolaser barrages when the Rebels attack?

There are two major structural changes that I think would have made for a better and more powerful film.

Change #1: Expansion of Saw and Elimination of Bodhi

We needed two scenes in this film to build the Saw and Jyn relationship more, show how extreme Saw was, and show just how much of a bad-ass Jyn is. Scene one should be an early training/mission scene and scene two should have been the scene were Saw abandons Jyn on a mission.

To make room for these additions you need to excise Bodhi from a significant role in the film. Bodhi serves as a messenger that gets the plot rolling, but he is easily replaceable by a holo-transmission as Mon Mothma explains in the Japanese trailer: “We have intercepted a coded Imperial transmission. It indicates that a major weapons test is imminent. We need to know how to destroy it.”

Rebels can discover Galen’s involvement in the message and project and then approach Jyn, who subsequently recruits Saw, who could have maintained secret contact with Galen or found out where Galen is. This makes current-day Saw more relevant to the plot and instead of allowing himself to die on Jedha he could go with the crew and be the one that later stays behind on the shuttle on Scarif because of his physical limitations. You could replace Saw in almost all of Bodhi’s scenes in the film and I think you make room for a tighter story with richer characterization.

Change #2: Jyn’s Death and Vader’s Slaughter

As awesome as Vader’s hallway slaughter is, it is entirely nameless Rebel troopers who we have no emotional attachment to. The emotions of this scene would have been amplified immeasurably if he was pursuing a character from the main cast who was accompanied by Rebel fleet troopers.

Jyn and Cassian dying in each other’s arms on the beach as the Death Star’s shockwave hits them has a certain poetry to it. But it is so impersonal.

Jyn and probably Cassian should have been killed by Vader, either as they raced to transmit the data or in an alternate take on the ending as they physically escapes the planet to the Profundity, only to have the ship disabled and boarded by Vader and to have them chased through the halls , Cassian dies trying to buy Jyn time and then Jyn dies after handing off the plans to another Rebel trooper as Vader cuts her down.

So when Vader says “there’ll be no one to stop us this time” in A New Hope, he is referring back to Cassian and Jyn.

In the end, flaws and my personal story preferences aside I really enjoyed Rogue One and I have a feeling it will be a Star Wars film that I revisit very often in the years to come.