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Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 74

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I don’t really see why every character needs a backstory. When the whole point is to make a standalone movie where none of the characters will return in a sequel, the I don’t really see how backstory would be necessary unless directly related to the plot, e.g. Jyn’s relation to Galen.

I think RO can be fairly compared to movies like f.ex. John Carpenter’s The Thing in terms of how the characters are developed. What’s so brilliant about the writing of that film is that it never wastes any time explaining anyone’s backstory. All that we need to know about those characters are revealed to us through how they all cope with the same intense situation. There was never a “when I was a kid…” or “back home I was…” type of dialogue, all that we need to learn about their personalities comes from how they react to the crisis that is at the center film. That in my opinion is good economical writing. Granted, this method is not for every type of movie, but I think that this is the kind of story that RO tries to be. Which makes sense when you got a war movie focused on one specific threat and one specific important mission. RO isn’t really a “character film”, yet it still manages to explore several characters’ personalities and implied backgrounds based on how they behave throughout the story.

Also SW does have the benefit of having one of the most elaborate EUs in existence, so if you are just dying to know the life story of Chirrut or Bodhi, or any other character, I’m sure there’s going to be some novel or comic that will explore this at some point.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Lord Haseo said:

Another great point. The most important impact he had on the film is the transferring of information to the audience that Jyn was abandoned by him because people we’re starting to piece together who she really was. Other than that and the “Save The Rebellion…Save the dream” line he is completely useless just like Lor San Tekka in TFA.

Except Saw is made out to be a very important character in the film. Tekka is just an old ally with the map who sets thing in action at the start - no need to be anything more.

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Anchorhead said:

The lack of backstory and deep character development is, to me, one of the stronger points of the movie. That said: I understand how some fans, many perhaps, may be disappointed or find it lacking. For the younger fans who came into the franchise at the Prequels, they’ve always had a Lucas-controlled series where every bit of minutia is backstoried and tied into the main narrative and characters. It’s exactly how Lucas shrunk the universe and turned it into “a solar system far far away”.

This isn’t a Lucas film. We don’t get to know the characters’ histories or why they may or may not know each other. That’s perfectly ok with me. In fact, I prefer it. Star Wars77 had all sorts of hinted- at pasts, but it didn’t get bogged down in explaining them. As someone mentioned earlier, we don’t know thing one about Han & Chewie, how they met, or how long they’ve been together. Yet they are wildly popular.

Sometimes people are who they are and don’t need an arc. The Rogue One team accepted a mission and they worked together to see it through. They didn’t take the mission for personal growth or to become The A Team. They had a job to do. I don’t know the story behind every person I work with every day (nor do I care). We have a common goal and we put in the work to accomplish it. We’re not growing. We’re working.

Very good post.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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 (Edited)

Saw Gerrera’s role was chopped down in the re-writes along with Moroff and Pao and his partisans and the conflict on Jedha and also Scariff (Although Saw never made it that far I don’t think).

Bodhi Rooks role was developed further.

So there is your answer as the movie had already been shot before they changed it so that’s why you have only scattered appearances which Bodhi was a much smaller character and Saw was a much bigger Character.

They only had so much wiggle room to shape it differently.

Cassian Never met Jyn until Jedha either by the sounds of it and Mon Mothma recieved the imperial coded transmission sent by her father totally wiping out the plot with Bodhi Rook and the tentacle monster.

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DominicCobb said:

Lord Haseo said:

Another great point. The most important impact he had on the film is the transferring of information to the audience that Jyn was abandoned by him because people we’re starting to piece together who she really was. Other than that and the “Save The Rebellion…Save the dream” line he is completely useless just like Lor San Tekka in TFA.

Except Saw is made out to be a very important character in the film. Tekka is just an old ally with the map who sets thing in action at the start - no need to be anything more.

They both could have been much much more. I expected much more out of them. That’s the point of the comparison.

You can say in Lor San Tekka’s case it’s due to Max Von Sydow being in the film but still…

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Bobo Jameson said:

Tyrphanax said:

Much as I vehemently disagree with Mala’s often-repeated opinion on the post-Disney Star Wars films, I honestly don’t think he’s a troll asshole (he’s just wrong =P ). I just think he doesn’t like the movies. A shame, but definitely his right to do so.

It’s a shame you’ll probably be banned soon because you seem to be generally an okay guy, Bobo.

Well you have to admit that giving Rogue One a 0 out of 10 is just a little ridiculous. He goes on to say that Hacksaw Ridge is better. Two different movies, one is about fun with a little social commentary in it like how the good guys aren’t always saints without any blood on their hands and the other is a serious movie about a real-life war. His comparison of the two movies is laughable.

Oh no, I definitely agree it was definitely a trollbait hyperbolic score. But falling for the bait doesn’t help anyone or anything. =P

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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What was Giltoys ending?

Gilroy merged the communications Dish with the main building so they had to climb up the archive I doubt much past that was altered.

The Space Stuff was probably always there but I think it was re-tooled perhaps slightly.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

I don’t get the argument that the characters didn’t get enough background, such as not knowing how Baze and Chrrut met. Who cares how they met? You never find out the backstory of Jules and Vincent in Pulp Fiction, and those characters are still terrific. Hell, you never find out the backstory for Han and Chewy, and those characters are loved by all.

I definitely agree. Like I said in an earlier post, people are judging the character development of a one-off movie with the character development in a trilogy of movies. We really know no more about Han, Leia, and Luke at the end of Star Wars than we do about Jyn, Cassian, Bodhi, Churrit, Baze, or K2 at the end of Rogue One.

But now think of how little we knew about Tarkin at the end of Star Wars and how fleshed out his character motivations are after Rogue One.

ZkinandBonez said:

I don’t really see why every character needs a backstory. When the whole point is to make a standalone movie where none of the characters will return in a sequel, the I don’t really see how backstory would be necessary unless directly related to the plot, e.g. Jyn’s relation to Galen.

I think RO can be fairly compared to movies like f.ex. John Carpenter’s The Thing in terms of how the characters are developed. What’s so brilliant about the writing of that film is that it never wastes any time explaining anyone’s backstory. All that we need to know about those characters are revealed to us through how they all cope with the same intense situation. There was never a “when I was a kid…” or “back home I was…” type of dialogue, all that we need to learn about their personalities comes from how they react to the crisis that is at the center film. That in my opinion is good economical writing. Granted, this method is not for every type of movie, but I think that this is the kind of story that RO tries to be. Which makes sense when you got a war movie focused on one specific threat and one specific important mission. RO isn’t really a “character film”, yet it still manages to explore several characters’ personalities and implied backgrounds based on how they behave throughout the story.

Also SW does have the benefit of having one of the most elaborate EUs in existence, so if you are just dying to know the life story of Chirrut or Bodhi, or any other character, I’m sure there’s going to be some novel or comic that will explore this at some point.

Exactly.

Anchorhead said:

The lack of backstory and deep character development is, to me, one of the stronger points of the movie. That said: I understand how some fans, many perhaps, may be disappointed or find it lacking. For the younger fans who came into the franchise at the Prequels, they’ve always had a Lucas-controlled series where every bit of minutia is backstoried and tied into the main narrative and characters. It’s exactly how Lucas shrunk the universe and turned it into “a solar system far far away”.

This isn’t a Lucas film. We don’t get to know the characters’ histories or why they may or may not know each other. That’s perfectly ok with me. In fact, I prefer it. Star Wars77 had all sorts of hinted- at pasts, but it didn’t get bogged down in explaining them. As someone mentioned earlier, we don’t know thing one about Han & Chewie, how they met, or how long they’ve been together. Yet they are wildly popular.

Sometimes people are who they are and don’t need an arc. The Rogue One team accepted a mission and they worked together to see it through. They didn’t take the mission for personal growth or to become The A Team. They had a job to do. I don’t know the story behind every person I work with every day (nor do I care). We have a common goal and we put in the work to accomplish it. We’re not growing. We’re working.

Exactly.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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pittrek said:

So, can anybody tell me what was the point of Forest Whitaker’s character? I mean if you would cut him out of the movie it wouldn’t affect the story at all. The same goes for the subplot with the tentacle monster - why was it there?

Saw Gerrera serves a number of purposes.

Firstly, he’s there to explain why this daughter of a scientist is so well combat trained. He raised Jyn to be a soldier for a good portion of her life. Its his influence that prepares her to fulfill her destiny. Second, its his extreme resistance activities that cause Jedha to be targeted by the Death Star. Which is needed to demonstrate to the Alliance the very real threat they’re facing.

As for the tentacle monster. It’s there as the obligatory creature(Dianoga,Wampa,Rancor/Sarlaac) that feature in every Star Wars movie. Not a particularly effective one I’ll grant you but at least it keeps the tradition going.

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Did anyone think Bodhi Rook was great?

His Character changed the most by all accounts. Was he shipping the Kyber Crystals for Galen? Was there a scene where Galen gave him the hologram message and told him to find Saw?

He never really left too much of an impact for me on the film but he played it well. But I thought he was just kind of there and it’s right that they said “he’s there, but he’s not a soldier and he is out of place.”

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Just got back from my second viewing and I liked it A LOT more this time around.

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Ronster said:

Did anyone think Bodhi Rook was great?

I thought he was fine, nothing special, which was what I felt about many of the characters. I had to look up who he was, which tells me he didn’t make much of an impact on me.

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List of alternate/deleted scenes, arranged in chronological order:

  • Deathtroopers surveying the area while standing in front of the Erso home, which is on fire (Teaser Trailer)
  • alternate shot of a Rebel soldier asking Jyn if she “wants to get out of here” in the Imperial transport on Wobani (Trailer #2)
  • Jyn being marched through a hallway in the Yavin 4 base in handcuffs, and looking behind her before a guard pushes her along (Teaser Trailer); the final film has a similar shot, but she walks through the hangar bay, doesn’t look behind her and no one pushes her
  • General Draven’s line “Can you be trusted without your handcuffs?” (Teaser Trailer)
  • Mon Mothma’s line “On your own, from the age of 15, reckless, aggressive and undisciplined” (Teaser Trailer)
  • Jyn’s line “This is a Rebellion, isn’t it? I rebel.” (Teaser Trailer); appears to have been changed to the single line “You’re Rebels, aren’t you?”
  • Jyn’s line “I was trained to fight, not stand down.” (TV spot #14)
  • Jyn/Draven’s exchange at the end of the briefing scene (“Is that clear?” “Yes, sir.”) (Teaser Trailer)
  • the shot of the Star Destroyer passing the Death Star’s reactor dish as it retracts is different (extended out further, moves in more slowly) (Teaser Trailer)
  • unused scene/shot of Jyn pausing to give something (a piece of fruit?) to the young girl she later saves during the Jedha Stormtrooper/tank fight (Celebration Teaser Reel)
  • unused scene of Jyn/K-2S0 talking in Jedha(“You are a friend. The captain says that I should not kill you.” “Thanks.”) (Trailer #1)
  • alternate/unused shot of Jyn/K-2S0 encountering Stormtroopers harrassing residents in Jedha (“Jyn & Cassian” extended TV spot)
  • the shot of present-day Saw Gerrara in his base walking towards the camera, still bald like his earlier appearance in the film (Teaser Trailer)
  • Present-day Saw Gerrara (sans hair) asking “What will you do if you fight?” (Teaser Trailer)
  • quick shot of Jyn talking to Saw outside of his Jedha base (Celebration Teaser Reel)
  • footage from alternate scene of Krennic talking to Vader inside Death Star (“The power we are dealing with here is immeasurable!”) (Trailer #2)
  • unused shot of Krennic saying “The power we’re dealing with is… awesome.” (TV spot #29/IMAX TV spot)
  • alternate shot of Jyn telling Cassian “I’m not used to sticking around when things go bad” before departing for Scarif (“Jyn & Cassian” extended TV spot)
  • alternate/unfinished shot of Jyn telling the Rebels “May the Force Be With Us” before leaving Yavin 4 (Celebration Teaser Reel)
  • unused shot of Jyn telling the Rebels “Welcome to Rogue One” before leaving Yavin 4 (“Tonight” TV spot)
  • unused Bodhi line “You might want to strap in” before the Imperial shuttle heads for Scarif (TV spot #37)
  • unused shot of X-Wings departing Yavin to head to Scarif (“Father” extended TV spot)
  • Jyn (sporting a rifle in each hand) and other Rebels running towards a group of AT-ATs who are firing on them (Teaser Trailer)
  • Jyn, Cassian and K-2S0 running through a hallway in the Scarif base without their disguises (Teaser Trailer)
  • unused shot of Jyn in disguise (sans helmet) turning back to stare at something in Scarif base (various trailers/TV spots)
  • Jyn walking to the Scarif Tower’s alignment console as a TIE Fighter rises up in front of her (various trailers/TV spots)
  • shot of Jyn/Cassian running through gunfire and explosions during Scarif ground battle (Celebration Teaser Reel); notable in that Jyn is holding the Death Star data drive in her hand
  • shot of Jyn/Cassian and other Rebels behind a dirt barricade laying down blaster rifle fire on Scarif surface (Celebration Teaser Reel)
  • Krennic walking through shallow water on Scarif(?), with his robe trailing behind him (Teaser Trailer)
  • Vader looking at a projection screen in the Death Star (Trailer #1)

It is noticeable that a large chunk of Saw Gerrara’s scenes were reshot (see the trailer scenes of him on Jedha with no hair, versus his appearance in the final film), at least one Vader scene was changed (it appeared he would have been on the Death Star and had a similar conversation with Krennic), and the ending was massively reshot so that part or all of it involved Jyn, Cassian and other Rebels escaping on foot instead of transmitting the data via the satellite dish on Scarif Tower).

I had also heard a rumor prior to release that the original ending was supposed to be Jyn/Cassian escaping the surface with the plans, but they’re killed anyway when Vader disables the flagship and and boards it.

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Why does everyone keep missing the extra shots of Jyn smacking the stormtrooper with the stick and then there is another of her taking his leg’s out too.

so there are another 2 for you. From Sizzle reel.

  • Chirrut (Donnie Yen) knocking another stormtrooper out back fist style

  • shot of death troopers shooting also from teaser I think was not in the film either.

  • Missing shot of U-wing descending on Eadu

  • Establishing shot of Eaudu Base

  • Alternate angles of Star Destoyer over Jedha city from wasteland guided by the locals.

  • Rebel Leaders before they go to War on Yavin 4 Speech by Dolodonna and Bail Organa in the Hangar

There are loads in the trailers more than on your list.

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Ronster said:

Why does everyone keep missing the extra shots of Jyn smacking the stormtrooper with the stick and then there is another of her taking his leg’s out too.

so there are another 2 for you. From Sizzle reel.

  • Chirrut (Donnie Yen) knocking another one out back fist style

  • shot of death troopers shooting also from teaser I think was not in the film either.

  • Missing shot of U-wing descending on Eadu

  • Establishing shot of Eaudu Base

  • Alternate angles of Star Destoyer over Jedha city from wasteland guided by the locals.

There are loads in the trailers more than on your list.

I know. There’s more I saw but didn’t even write down. I only wrote down what was noticeable and what I remembered. The amount of deleted/alternate content is likely staggering.

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Jyn’s (Main Character) father Would be proud of her…

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The unseen Star Wars archive footage used in Rogue One

“We went to Skywalker ranch, and there’s the archives there,” Edwards told RadioTimes.com.
“And as we’re walking around, and doing all the cool things and looking at the Millennium Falcon and trying on Han Solo’s jacket and things like that, in the back at the bottom was all these cans of film. And we said ‘what are they?’ and they said ‘Oh, it’s Star Wars.’

“And you go… ‘has someone gone through all this? And it’s like ‘not really, they’re not fully like digitised at all.’”
Sensing an opportunity, Edwards got his hands on the film negatives, and realised he had the perfect chance for a subtle homage in his hands.

“We got the neg documents and found the clips from A New Hope that hadn’t been used,” he recalled. “And there’s pilot photography and lines that were never featured in A New Hope."

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Once again the lack of backstory is not the issue. We’re all sensing something was off and trying to diagnose. People might be saying they want more backstory but that’s not what they need.

Rogue One isn’t about the characters, which is totally fine. It’s about the Rebel Alliance and its fight against the Empire. Which is great, but the story isn’t quite there. It feels to much like an anecdote. I wanted to see not just the struggle against the Empire but the struggle to bring the disparate factions together. The morally grey areas of the revolution. The dilemma of ends justifying the means. Whether to ally with terrorists. The motivations beyond just fighting a flag flying over the galaxy. And even the motivations on the other side of the coin, on the Empire’s side. It just happens to be that the best way to explore these ideas is through the characters.

These are things they all came so close to but just missed.

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Did anyone see this pilot? I don’t remember her… Was she in the film?

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Baze and Chirrut had better get a five-issue Marvel series.

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I’m hoping for a Guardians of the Whills spin-off film, personally.

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