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Plot holes in the SW saga — Page 4
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Originally posted by: jimbo
They are not recrutes they are clones. They all look alike in terms of size and build. George has stated that the original trilogy stormtroopers are clones several times. So they have different voices. Not much different really. Maybe in the 2007 versions Lucas will make all there voices the same. It stated so on ain't it cool news.
Ok, so bring me a GL quote (before the SE please) in which he states that the stormtroopers are clones. Besides all the EU material has stated clearly that they are not clones at all. Can't you see he wanted to change it all when he began working on the prequels? This is George "Plot Holes" Lucas we are talking about.
GL is working on the prequels scripts, when he suddenly just raise his arms and says: "I just don't know!"
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In 1980 when Empire cam out, you could by a folding poster thing. On the back was a load of info an shit!!
One had a piece about the Empire, and it stated there that the Stormtroopers were clones...
Also, Jimbo is correct in saying, if Goerge Lucas says they are Clones, then they are Clones.
They may not have been once, but they are now!
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Originally posted by: HotRod
But there still isn't any plot holes in Episodes 1 & 2.....
All movies have plot holes. Its inevidible.
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Originally posted by: HotRod
Actually in Jimbos defense...
In 1980 when Empire cam out, you could by a folding poster thing. On the back was a load of info an shit!!
One had a piece about the Empire, and it stated there that the Stormtroopers were clones...
Also, Jimbo is correct in saying, if Goerge Lucas says they are Clones, then they are Clones.
They may not have been once, but they are now!
They are now, I totally agree. I was just saying that he changed his mind.
And if this folding poster thing is official, and states clearly that they are all clones, and it came from GL or Lucasfilm itself, then I'll have to agree with you and Jimbo, and give GL a little bit more credit. But still, it conflits with the EU material, which clearly stated the opposite, and the official EU material is always aproved by GL, so... unless he didn't bother to read it:
"Mr. Lucas we have some new expanded universe material for you to approve."
"What? They still write those things? Ok, ok, tell me what are those about."
"The first one is a work of fiction called Tommy Skywalker, in which the band The Who meets Luke and decides to do an album about him."
"Approved. Next."
"We have 'Star Wars: ER', the story of a emergency hospital in Tatooine, during the events of A New Hope."
"Approved."
"And we have here... 'Star Wars Forbidden Love', in which Luke and Leia decide to ignore the fact they are twins, and decide to make noisy love inside an A-Wing, during the clone wars, which I belive is not even possible. It was written by a 13 year old boy, and it's 3 pages long."
"Whatever, approved, approved!"
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Originally posted by: HotRod
Actually in Jimbos defense...
In 1980 when Empire cam out, you could by a folding poster thing. On the back was a load of info an shit!!
One had a piece about the Empire, and it stated there that the Stormtroopers were clones...
Also, Jimbo is correct in saying, if Goerge Lucas says they are Clones, then they are Clones.
They may not have been once, but they are now!
Wow I did not know that. If thats true then the Stormtroopers were always considered clones. I originally assumed that he didn't believe that until he made the prequals.
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
even the EU in its infancy stated that the stormtroopers are clones...
Oh. Uh... ok then.
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Originally posted by: jimboQuote
Originally posted by: HotRod
But there still isn't any plot holes in Episodes 1 & 2.....
All movies have plot holes. Its inevidible.
True....Especially Back to the future 3.......
But, I can't seem to find any in Star wars...
Plot holes Jimbo me lad....Not continuity(sp?) mistakes, or just messy mistakes...Actual plot holes!?!?..
I don't think George is that stupid to have obvious plot holes in his babies!!!
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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How does Luke know that Han and Leia are on Bespin? All he sees in his vision is them suffering, and when the story was written, Cloud city had no windows.
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Episodes I and II introduced more plot holes to the Star Wars saga than any other Episode. I can't tell you exactly which holes, but they're there (and a lot of them too). Unfortunately story incosistencies have been removed from the Internet Movie Database until Episode III has been released.
In Episode V on the ice planet Hoth, shortly before Luke is rescued by Han Solo, Obi-Wan Kenobi appears before Luke instructing hime to go to Dagobah to be trained by the same Jedi master who instructed him. Later in the movie Luke receives his training from Yoda. In Episode I however we learn that Qui-Gon Jinn is the instructor of young Obi-Wan Kenobi.
This plot hole had to be corrected by GL and he did. In Episode II we see Obi-Wan entering a class at some sort of Jedi training centre and we see Yoda teach very young children the ways of The Force. We're meant to assume that this is where Obi-Wan received his first training as a small child too, prior to being appointed the Qui-Gon Jinn as a Padawan Learner.
During his second visit to Dagobah in Episode VI, Luke is told by Obi-Wan that he (Obi-Wan) "took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi" (refering to Anakin Skywalker), thinking he could do this just as good as Yoda. In Episode I we see Qui-Gon Jinn being the one who does just that. Obi-Wan Kenobi only takes over this 'job' reluctantly after Qui-Gon Jinn has been killed at the end of Episode I. Not exactly the way Obi-Wan told Luke (and us) the way it all happened. Maybe the conversation in Episode VI will be changed in the upcoming DVD to match the events in Episode I.
This is one of the reasons I disslike the updated and altered versions of the Original Trilogy. They are fine the way they are. All changes made to these movies are either cosmetic and as such are only meant as eye candy, not adding anything to the story, or they are meant to cover-up plot holes that were introduced in Episodes I and II. If he had watched his Original Trilogy more carefully before writing the stories for the prequels, he wouln't have to correct these unnecessary plot holes afterwards.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Ah. Here is one.
How does Luke know that Han and Leia are on Bespin? All he sees in his vision is them suffering, and when the story was written, Cloud city had no windows.
Then I guess the Special Edition fixed a plot mistake.
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In Episode I we see Qui-Gon Jinn being the one who does just that. Obi-Wan Kenobi only takes over this 'job' reluctantly after Qui-Gon Jinn has been killed at the end of Episode I.
we already know that Obi Wan speaks from certain points of view and not always tells the truth as it is. so in a way, he did take it upon himself.
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Those aren't plot holes man....
Yoda - Obi wan training thing...Well you've explained that yourself, so no holes in the plot there...
Obi-Wan "took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi" - Which he did....I don't think that was the right time for Obi-Wan to tell Luke his life story....not with the big battles, and Death Stars going on an shit!!
Again....
I'm sure George Lucas knows his films...He did right them in the first place.....
Ok, so he's changing them....So...
He's not changing them so much that it's full of holes...
No, now he's just adding to an already great story!
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Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: vtpeters
>But, I can't seem to find any in Star wars...
This is one of the reasons I disslike the updated and altered versions of the Original Trilogy. They are fine the way they are. All changes made to these movies are either cosmetic and as such are only meant as eye candy, not adding anything to the story, or they are meant to cover-up plot holes that were introduced in Episodes I and II. If he had watched his Original Trilogy more carefully before writing the stories for the prequels, he wouln't have to correct these unnecessary plot holes afterwards.
Hang on a sec.....
Where are these changes you speak of????
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A few little things (not really plot holes but anyway): Why does Vader stop Boba Fett from shooting Chewbacca in ESB? Doesn't make much sense to me, surely a man like him would place no value on the life of a Wookie.
In ROTJ, we see the Rebels placing explosives in the shield generator. Then they run about five metres away and hide behind some bushes. There is no way they could have escaped uninjured from the truly massive explosion that results, IMHO...
Why does the Death Star bother to orbit the planet that is in the way of Yavin? (Or is the planet called Yavin, can't recall) Why not just blow both planets away? Would have been much quicker... Also that display the Rebels had showing the Death Star approaching: What exactly is the use for this display when there are no Death Stars around? :-)
Luke could use the Force a bit more in ROTJ, for example to push/pull the stormtroopers off their speeder bikes...
That's all I can think of for now. Not important things but just wanted to see what others think...
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Originally posted by: Samatar
As far as the Bespin thing goes, he "saw a city in the clouds", so he knew what the place looked like; I guess he could look it up in his computer or something. Or maybe his Jedi instinct just tells him which way to go?
A few little things (not really plot holes but anyway): Why does Vader stop Boba Fett from shooting Chewbacca in ESB? Doesn't make much sense to me, surely a man like him would place no value on the life of a Wookie.
In ROTJ, we see the Rebels placing explosives in the shield generator. Then they run about five metres away and hide behind some bushes. There is no way they could have escaped uninjured from the truly massive explosion that results, IMHO...
Why does the Death Star bother to orbit the planet that is in the way of Yavin? (Or is the planet called Yavin, can't recall) Why not just blow both planets away? Would have been much quicker... Also that display the Rebels had showing the Death Star approaching: What exactly is the use for this display when there are no Death Stars around? :-)
Luke could use the Force a bit more in ROTJ, for example to push/pull the stormtroopers off their speeder bikes...
That's all I can think of for now. Not important things but just wanted to see what others think...
Vader wanted to use Chewbacca as bait. Yavin I believe was a gas planet and would not be effected by the Death Star. Others like that those bushes couldn't sheild them is a definute plot hole.
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Originally posted by: HotRod
vtpeters
Those aren't plot holes man....
Yoda - Obi wan training thing...Well you've explained that yourself, so no holes in the plot there...
Obi-Wan "took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi" - Which he did....I don't think that was the right time for Obi-Wan to tell Luke his life story....not with the big battles, and Death Stars going on an shit!!
Again....
I'm sure George Lucas knows his films...He did right them in the first place.....
Ok, so he's changing them....So...
He's not changing them so much that it's full of holes...
No, now he's just adding to an already great story!
Of course they're not plot holes now, George Lucas corrected his mistakes as each movie was produced. Which was the point vtpeters was trying to make.
I doubt if GL meant for Obi-wan to "speak in tongues" if you will, I think he only made it look that way as each movie came along in order to make it easier for him to cover up his previous mistakes. That's why that conversation with Luke was added in ROTJ; so people could make sense out of Obi-wan telling Luke that Vader killed his father in ANH.
So yes, they are plot holes--or were.
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I guess I can accept that. Makes sense. However I still don't think it would have taken so long for the Death Star to orbit the planet, after all it managed to "fly" there and arrive only a few hours after the Millenium Falcon, which is supposed to be the "fastest ship in the fleet"... but it isn't important.