-I like Rose Byrne (the handmaiden) in Clones.
-I like the shot of the tanks approaching Naboo in Phantom.
-I really like the Trade Federation march. The scores in general are good, but this is the theme I most often hear.
-I like Sebulba, I wish he had won the race.
-Strange as it may sound, I like the TPM Yoda puppet. I like the movement he makes when he says “No more, no less.”
-I like the line “this party is over.”
I think that’s about it.
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)
-I like Rose Byrne (the handmaiden) in Clones.
Why?
-I like Sebulba, I wish he had won the race.
He does in my edit.
-Strange as it may sound, I like the TPM Yoda puppet. I like the movement he makes when he says “No more, no less.”
Many of us here are big fans of CPY (Creepy Puppet Yoda).
I find it ridiculous that someone would consider Empire a good ending and TFA a cheat, and give reasons like “ESB felt solid” and “Luke needed dialog.”
TESB follows our main characters as they get split up and try to get away from the Empire. Luke goes to train and ends up back with them as they all try to finally get away. The ending gives us our remaining characters safe on a ship in the rebel fleet. Luke and Leia bid Lando and Chewy good luck finding Han and the two take off on a quest. The big story is wrapped up - the rebels are again safe, but they have lost Han. In TFA, the quest was to find Luke… then what. Showing that they found Luke was a weak ending. It’s like if TESB ended with Lando and Chewy landing on Tantooine and learning that Han is on display in Jabba’s palace. The unfinished quest worked better as an ending. Either no Luke or give Luke something interesting to say that makes the scene worth including. What they did didn’t work for me.
TFA follows Rey, and Finn as they become part of events and accept their destinies. That was more important than the quest to find Luke. Finn finds something to fight for that he believes in- The Resistance and real friends (Rey, Poe, Han and Chewie). With Rey, she accepts the call of the Force, accepts that the belonging she desires will not be found by staying on Jakku, and only at the end is she ready to find Luke and begin her path to becoming a Jedi.
That’s why they meet the heroes as they do, they take further steps into the larger galaxy. First Han and Chewie, then Leia and finally Luke. Luke is not the main star of TFA, Rey is.
As for Han and Chewie finding the Falcon, he fucking said they tracked it. Hyperspace in Star Wars works however the plot demands in. Remember the Emperor sensing Anakin in danger and got from Coruscant to Mustafar in time to save his burnt ass? No more reaching than Han arriving so soon after the Falcon’s transmitter started working.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
TV’s Frink said:
Many of us here are big fans of CPY (Creepy Puppet Yoda).
I’m also a fan of Really Creepy Puppet Yoda.
Swallow your soul I will! Yesssss…
Where were you in '77?
There was this feeling during the buildup to the prequels that Star Wars was alive again after a long slumber. People dressing up in costumes, acting silly, sharing nerd camaraderie, camping out in crazy long lines, bringing their kids, and so on. Even the Special Editions didn’t shake it – we simply didn’t know at the time that the Special Editions were intended to supplant the movies we loved, we thought they were just an experiment gone wrong – a soon-to-be-forgotten footnote. This deluded, hopeful “it’ll get better, it has to!” feeling stayed with me, at least a little, until the second prequel. Oh, but as for something good that was actually IN a prequel… I got nothing, sorry. But that hopeful feeling was still pretty good.
Basically, the original trilogy was so potent that the fumes from the OT kept the fans happy for decades, even while the franchise was actively being destroyed. But that fume-y period was a happy, albeit naive, period.
I don’t think TFA captured that feeling at all. People were looking for something to rescue the franchise, they were really hoping it wouldn’t suck, etc. Relative to the prequels, people were pretty sober about it. Even now that TFA’s proven to be much better than the prequels, the fumes have cleared. We’re not naive anymore, which is a shame in a way.
yotsuya said:
Yup, exactly why those two scenes are plot holes in my book. Both took me right out of the movie.There is no “in my book” when it comes to definitions. You can’t change a definition based on your personal beliefs.
Ah, but you provided the definition and to me both those perfectly meet your definition. I’m not changing the definition, I’m telling you that when I fist saw TFA, both those scenes interrupted the film and for my experience they exactly match the provided definition of a plot hole. R2 waking up didn’t have the same effect.
I am NOT a fan of CPY. It was so bad compared to the original. CGY is better and consistent with the other 2 prequels.
yotsuya said:
Yup, exactly why those two scenes are plot holes in my book. Both took me right out of the movie.There is no “in my book” when it comes to definitions. You can’t change a definition based on your personal beliefs.
Ah, but you provided the definition and to me both those perfectly meet your definition.
Maybe that’s because I use words I know the definitions to lol
I’m telling you that when I fist saw TFA, both those scenes interrupted the film and for my experience they exactly match the provided definition of a plot hole.
I don’t really care about how you felt. A vast majority of the things you said were plot holes were actually plot conveniences, inconsistencies with how reality works (like the people at Maz’s Castle seeing the Hosnian System being destroyed), things you didn’t understand in the story or things that didn’t match the dictionary definition of a plot hole. Also, how does your first impression of a film have to do with what you know now?
R2 waking up didn’t have the same effect.
Because that’s not a plot hole either. It’s a plot convenience. Plus, we’ve been kind of conditioned to overlook stuff like that in Star Wars.
when I fist saw TFA
Sounds about right.
yotsuya said:
Yup, exactly why those two scenes are plot holes in my book. Both took me right out of the movie.There is no “in my book” when it comes to definitions. You can’t change a definition based on your personal beliefs.
Ah, but you provided the definition and to me both those perfectly meet your definition.
Maybe that’s because I use words I know the definitions to lol
I’m telling you that when I fist saw TFA, both those scenes interrupted the film and for my experience they exactly match the provided definition of a plot hole.
I don’t really care about how you felt. A vast majority of the things you said were plot holes were actually plot conveniences, inconsistencies with how reality works (like the people at Maz’s Castle seeing the Hosnian System being destroyed), things you didn’t understand in the story or things that didn’t match the dictionary definition of a plot hole. Also, how does your first impression of a film have to do with what you know now?
R2 waking up didn’t have the same effect.
Because that’s not a plot hole either. It’s a plot convenience. Plus, we’ve been kind of conditioned to overlook stuff like that in Star Wars.
I went back and reread the definitions you provided and that is EXACTLY how I would describe both those scenes. Both critical to the story and in both places it jerks me out of the movie, disrupts the flow of the story, and both are logical inconsistent. That makes them plot holes. And by those definitions, my personal perspective is inherent to whether I consider it a plot hole or not. Your opinion as to whether it is a plot hole or not is irrelevant to whether or not it fits the definition in my viewing experience. It matters to you and your viewing experience, but not mine.
And I am amazed at how so many people around here insist that I agree with them. Sorry, but my opinion is not subject to discussion, nor is anyone elses. Our tastes differ and that should be fine. My opinion that TFA has worse story problems than the PT is based on my preferences, cinematic tastes, and study of the craft of writing as well as my experience with previous Abrams endeavors. You have different tastes and experiences and different opinions. Fine by me. I’m not trying to convince anyone, just trying to defend my opinion.
If you want to put your personal feelings onto definitions and want to be willfully ignorant about what actually counts as a plot hole (you know…one that actually coincides with the definition) then by all means. If definitions are at your whim then there’s no point in discussing anything with you.
I like Rose because she’s a talented actress, if underappreciated, whom manages to do well in most films she’s in (even if that isn’t enough to save them).
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)
If you want to put your personal feelings onto definitions and want to be willfully ignorant about what actually counts as a plot hole (you know…one that actually coincides with the definition) then by all means. If definitions are at your whim then there’s no point in discussing anything with you.
You posted 2 definitions. I read them understood them and from my perspective TFA has 2 huge plot holes. I am not being willfully ignorant. You posted definitions that are very much based on the viewers perspective not on some objective criteria. There really is no reason to start insulting each other over a difference of opinion. Mine is quite valid even if you can’t manage to wrap your heard around it.
If you want to put your personal feelings onto definitions and want to be willfully ignorant about what actually counts as a plot hole (you know…one that actually coincides with the definition) then by all means. If definitions are at your whim then there’s no point in discussing anything with you.
You posted definitions that are very much based on the viewers perspective not on some objective criteria.
If definitions were at the mercy of personal belief dictionaries wouldn’t exist in the first place.
There really is no reason to start insulting each other over a difference of opinion. Mine is quite valid even if you can’t manage to wrap your heard around it.
At this juncture this isn’t about your opinion; it’s about you trying to circumvent facts because of your personal beliefs. Also I was able to wrap my mind around your points when I refuted them to which you never even gave a proper rebuttal. So there’s that.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole
Plot Holes are those gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason. When a Plot Hole involves something essential to a story’s outcome, it can hurt the believability, for those who are bothered by such things. Hitting a Plot Hole at high speed can damage your Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole
In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story’s plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
So that you actually know what a plot hole is.
So these definitions include “without logical reason”, “gaps in a story”, “hurt the believability”, “damage your Willing Suspension of Disbelief”, “illogical or impossible events”, and “for those who are bothered by such things”. Those are all subjective interpretations of the material. In other words, they are based on the opinion of the viewer. Those two scenes make no logical sense to me, disrupt the flow of the story, and disrupt my immersion in the story. While the definition you provide have very specific criteria, how to apply it is up to the viewer, not some committee. Therefore they are plot holes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole
Plot Holes are those gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason. When a Plot Hole involves something essential to a story’s outcome, it can hurt the believability, for those who are bothered by such things. Hitting a Plot Hole at high speed can damage your Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole
In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story’s plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
So that you actually know what a plot hole is.
“without logical reason”
Empirical
“gaps in a story”
Empirical
“hurt the believability”
Kind of empirical
“damage your Willing Suspension of Disbelief”
Opinionated
“illogical or impossible events”
Empirical
“for those who are bothered by such things”
Opinionated…wrong again for the most part.
The main crux you should be getting out of the definition is “without logical reason”, “gaps in the story” etc. and most of the things you posted don’t fit the criteria. But no one can tell you anything so it’s pointless to even talk to you. Take care. Also fyi you completely ignored the second definition even though you quoted it.
That was where I started but because you don’t agree you keep arguing about it. Both, to me, are illogical gaps in the story. They make no sense, mainly because something vital is missing. And funny how you label some of those items empirical. That means based on observation and experience rather than theory or pure logic. My observation and experience say those are plot holes by the definitions you provided.
Perhaps they are questions the next movie will answer? Then again, I’m still confused on the whole Sifo Diyas buying a clone army thing. 😉
That was the most baffling thing I’ve ever seen on the big screen. I’ve never seen such an unsubstantiated explanation for a major plot point. It isn’t even further explored in the following film.
The Person in Question
CGY is better and consistent with the other 2 prequels.
If my right big toe was cut off, I wouldn’t cut off my infected left big toe to be consistent.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
Perhaps they are questions the next movie will answer? Then again, I’m still confused on the whole Sifo Diyas buying a clone army thing. 😉
That was the most baffling thing I’ve ever seen on the big screen. I’ve never seen such an unsubstantiated explanation for a major plot point. It isn’t even further explored in the following film.
Yeah, I agree. It’s been more or less explained in the old EU, and there was going to be a Clone Wars episode about it where they finally track down “Sifo-Dyas” and explain what happened, but the show was cancelled before it was released. I think the “Lost Missions” of the Clone Wars are still canon, though, despite not airing.
JEDIT: Ooops, got confused. The episode in question actually did air as episode 13 of Season Six (it’s on Netflix if you want to check it out), and they don’t really answer much given the circumstances.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
One thing I genuinely liked about the PT was the three way duel between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Maul. The location, the choreography and the music were all great. Too bad the other duels couldn’t even come close to that one.
One thing I genuinely liked about the PT was the three way duel between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Maul. The […] choreography […] were all great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
Too bad the other duels couldn’t even come close to that one.
The other duels were even further away than Obi-Wan’s lightsaber was from Maul.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
I like Rose because she’s a talented actress, if underappreciated, whom manages to do well in most films she’s in (even if that isn’t enough to save them).
My thoughts as well. I loved her as Cassie in Sunshine, but it was just recently that I even realized that she was in Clones. After seeing the actors in the blooper reel act like normal fun people, it’s abundantly clear that the problem was in the directing, not in the acting.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Dek Rollins said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
Now that I’ve seen that I retract my statement. Now there’s no reason to ever watch TPM ever again.
The other duels were even further away than Obi-Wan’s lightsaber was from Maul.
Especially the awful Yoda vs Dooku duel. I wish he had made a video about that one too.
One thing I genuinely liked about the PT was the three way duel between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Maul. The […] choreography […] were all great.
Consider my ass laughed off.