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Info Wanted: Mono mix - German Versions?

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Hi all,

First, I wanted to mention that I have in no way shelved the mono mix restoration I started some hundred years ago. It was postponed for a while to sort out the best transfer options and further derailed by an abundance of “real” work. However, I have been back at it over the past week and it is coming along nicely.

With this in mind, I would like to make an open query to anyone who might have knowledge of the following.

Referring to this thread:
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=5765&highlight_key=y

there is mention on page 2 by Vigo, that the earlier German language versions were based on the mono mix masters. Aside from the minor point of it being in a different language, this could prove to be a valuable resource, if as nothing more than a comparative reference.

If all of this holds true, what would be the best format on which this mix resides? Laserdisc (digital or analogue)? VHS HiFi?

If anyone has a good quality source for this, I’d be very interested in acquiring it.

Thanks in advance.

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Yes, I listened to the english mono mixes examples and found out that in the 1978 german dub, all translated dialogue (tractor beam and "close the blast door!") and sound effects matches the english mono mix. This also happened to me while watching the 2004SE for the first time in english, and wondered why many soundeffects changed...

Furthermore, the German dub contains music from John Williams in the trash compactor scene which can not be found anywhere else!!

The German version I own is the 1995 THX Laserdisc which I used for comparison. Romours are that the 1993 "Silverscreen" release contains better audio than the 1995 THX LD.

The most interesting part may be that the mono soundeffects are still present in the German DD5.1 mix from 1997/2004! However, they TOTALLY fucked up the dialogue during this process... (they had to extract it from the stereo source, and the software used to accomplish this cut off most of the "s" sounds, which is the reason why Fox Germany recieved MANY complaints from Star Wars fans, because some scenes sound now ridiculous).
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Thanks for responding.

I'm still not clear on a couple of things.

When you speak of the 1978 German dub, are you referring to its initial theatrical release? And, does your 1995 THX Laserdisc feature the same mix?

Lastly, is the mix on the Laser mono or stereo?
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Originally posted by: Vigo
The German version I own is the 1995 THX Laserdisc which I used for comparison. Rumours are that the 1993 "Silverscreen" release contains better audio than the 1995 THX LD.


Hmm... I own both, but I've never once listened to (nor captured) the audio. Maybe I should!

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Originally posted by: Vigo

The most interesting part may be that the mono soundeffects are still present in the German DD5.1 mix from 1997/2004! However, they TOTALLY fucked up the dialogue during this process... (they had to extract it from the stereo source, and the software used to accomplish this cut off most of the "s" sounds, which is the reason why Fox Germany recieved MANY complaints from Star Wars fans, because some scenes sound now ridiculous).


Yea, but the french mix doesn't any (exept the new SE scenes) new sound effects. Idk about the german mix, because it has been some time I hear it, but It definatly also missed a few SE changes.

MS
.: Revenge of the Jedi 0.83 MS Edition :.
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Originally posted by: Belbucus
Thanks for responding.

I'm still not clear on a couple of things.

When you speak of the 1978 German dub, are you referring to its initial theatrical release?

And, does your 1995 THX Laserdisc feature the same mix?


That´s a good question. I know that they added some hall effects in some particular scenes. But other than that, I recall from memory that all sounds are exactly as my 1990 TV broadcast, which most probably used the theatrical sound of the German print, since this broadcast used the original "KRIEG DER STERNE" textcrawl, without "Episode IV".

Unfortunately, I lost the tape. But I´m looking forward to capture the sound from the Silverscreen LD, since it most probably has the original theatrical german sound on it, since it also features the original textcrawl without "Episode IV" at the beginning.

The 1995 THX LD has a cheaply made revised textcrawl which added "Episode IV"


Lastly, is the mix on the Laser mono or stereo?


Stereo.
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Belbucus, are you going to release the mono mix when you completed it? It would be so cool if it was in sync with the video of the september 12 release and available for download so everyone can use it to make their own mono mix version of Star Wars.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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IIRC, additional sound effects were added to the mono mix when the dubbed versions were made, so they may not provide the best reference material.
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Ell, it's on the SE CD (note to eros: "SE" stands for "Special Edition," "CD" stands for "Compact Disc").
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Originally posted by: THX
Ell, it's on the SE CD (note to eros: "SE" stands for "Special Edition," "CD" stands for "Compact Disc").


hahahahahahahahahaha
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Originally posted by: Ell the Ewok
I wanna hear this Trash Compactor track!


I posted a sample, which is now inactive, but at least THX downloaded it...

Thread:

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=5530&STARTPAGE=4

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There is little documented history (that I’m aware of) surrounding the mixing of the foreign language versions other than they were done in and around late 1977 - along with the “Story of Star Wars” LP project which we know uses the monomix elements. So, with the known chronology of the mixes (and Burtt’s preference), it would not be unreasonable to assume that they used those elements as well. From what Vigo indicates, it seems quite possible that there could be several examples out there of foreign language STEREO mixes using the monomix elements.


Originally posted by: Vigo

…I´m looking forward to capture the sound from the Silverscreen LD, since it most probably has the original theatrical german sound on it, since it also features the original textcrawl without "Episode IV" at the beginning.
Vigo,
I would love to somehow get a copy of this file when you’re done.


Originally posted by: Vigo

…I posted a sample, which is now inactive, but at least THX downloaded it...
THX,
Do you still have this? If so, would you consider emailing to me?


Originally posted by: Arnie.d

…Belbucus, are you going to release the mono mix when you completed it? It would be so cool if it was in sync with the video of the september 12 release and available for download so everyone can use it to make their own mono mix version of Star Wars.

Arnie.d,
The coarse timing, with which I’ve been working thus far, was determined so as to match that of DC/Faces Laserdiscs, so it should come close to if not exactly match the video of the upcoming DVD. For a tight synchronization (a fairly time consuming process), I am waiting until the DVD release to confirm the timing.


Originally posted by: THX

…IIRC, additional sound effects were added to the mono mix when the dubbed versions were made, so they may not provide the best reference material.

THX,
I was really thinking more along the lines of a reference with regard to overall EQ and dynamics. I am assembling a complete monomix track - drawing from 2 different sources (Moth3r’s and Allan Mikkelsen’s). Both are likely several generations down, originally from television broadcasts (with whatever arbitrary processing the stations may have imposed). Allan’s is quite bright and thin with limited dynamic range. Moth3r’s seems to be closer to what it should be, so I’ve been EQing the lifts from Allan’s to match that. In the end though, it would be nice to have something to reference that represents the mixers intent, for an overall sonic profile.
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Understood. I did download that clip but I can't seem to find it now, sorry. Perhaps Vigo would be kind enough to post it again?
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Originally posted by: THX
Ell, it's on the SE CD (note to eros: "SE" stands for "Special Edition," "CD" stands for "Compact Disc").
Yes, but what does "ERO" stand for?

--SKot

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EROS from Greek Mythology

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@Belbucus

1) check your PM box regarding Vigo's trash compactor sample

2) a fellow in this thread says he's got a tape of the (English) mono mix. Unclear whether it's audio or video tape.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Extreme Reactions Or Sarcasm?
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Originally posted by: Belbucus
There is little documented history (that I’m aware of) surrounding the mixing of the foreign language versions other than they were done in and around late 1977 - along with the “Story of Star Wars” LP project which we know uses the monomix elements. So, with the known chronology of the mixes (and Burtt’s preference), it would not be unreasonable to assume that they used those elements as well. From what Vigo indicates, it seems quite possible that there could be several examples out there of foreign language STEREO mixes using the monomix elements.


Originally posted by: Vigo

…I´m looking forward to capture the sound from the Silverscreen LD, since it most probably has the original theatrical german sound on it, since it also features the original textcrawl without "Episode IV" at the beginning.
Vigo,
I would love to somehow get a copy of this file when you’re done.


Originally posted by: Vigo

…I posted a sample, which is now inactive, but at least THX downloaded it...

THX,
Do you still have this? If so, would you consider emailing to me?


My PM is active.
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Hi!

I am the guy who is working on a project to release the german version of the original starwars trilogy. There is a project-thread in the preservation forum. As you stated your interest in the german mix, the best would proberly be getting the R2 OUT DVD since it will feature a german audio track. Disadvantage is of course that it's still unknown which mix the OUT dvd will feature. The 1995 THX German LD are not featuring the original cinema audio track and are furthermore missing several lines. And it's DD2.0 only.

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Belbucus, you won't want to miss what Gregatron wrote today in this thread.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r