Extreme Prequel Plot Holes And Inconsistencies — Page 2

From what we are giving, I can see where Owen would have said something about Anakin running off and getting himself killed. Obi-wan turns it into what he said. He knows that if Anakin had died instead of turning, that he would have wanted his son to have his light saber. They were together for many years after all, first as student and master and then as friends and comrades in arms. And Obi-wan never owned R2 (he had an R4 with an R2 head and you can debate weather he owned it or whether it was just assigned to him).

The biggest lie is where he tell Luke that Vader killed his father. It might be just coincidence or that George had an idea that there was more to the story that Ben wasn’t going to tell luke, but Alec gives this wonderful face which in retrospect shows that you can’t really believe what he was about to say. It was a mix of truth and lies aimed to get Luke to start his training. The dialog in ANH reveals just how little Luke knew of his father and how much he wanted to know. By putting it the way he did he ensured that Luke would take the lightsaber.

Ben, like Threepio, is not very truthful in ANH. And you don’t need the prequels to show that.

So when you get to the prequels, nothing in their OT dialog really ties them to what happened in the past with any certainty so I don’t see where it creates any issues at all. The events of the PT are two to three decades in the past and memories can get fuzzy. Even for a Jedi. Leia remembering her mother is probably the biggest sticking point. I think Leia being psychic through the force is the best way to explain it. She is not the same as Luke and doesn’t have the same abilities. But even Vader noticed how strong willed she is and was surprised that the torture didn’t work.

I’ve found the best way while watching the movies is to just take it as it comes and don’t assume anything you hear is the truth. And just don’t think about it too much.

yotsuya said:
just don’t think about it too much.

Well… yeah it helps not to think about the PT I guess

Hardcore Legend said:

Cthulhunicron said:

Maybe before his turn to the dark side, Anakin mentioned to Obi-Wan that he and his wife were trying to have children, and he said “You know, I’d like my son to have my lightsaber when he’s old enough.” Again, since we’re ignoring the prequels, the backstory implied in the OT could have Jedis that don’t forbid romantic love. There’s nothing in the original trilogy that says Anakin never knew he had children until after they were born, just that he didn’t know he had a daughter.

They were both hidden:
“To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did. If Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.”

Based on that line alone, I think it’s ambiguous whether or not Vader knew he had children. He could be saying their existence was hidden, or he could be saying their location was hidden.

I rest my case about serious mental gymnastics being required to try to stitch these contradictory elements together.

They do not fit and are not even telling the same story. Nothing will ever make them fit, no matter how much threadbare string and worn-out duct tape you try to wrap around them.

These repeated attempts at retconning remind me of a straight woman married to a gay man, who remains adamantly convinced she can make him be attracted to her despite all the evidence that this will never happen. The only solution is to let it go and seek happiness elsewhere…

hairy_hen said:

These kinds of retcons suck and are lame. They are obviously not at all what anyone had in mind when the earlier stories were made, and frankly they insult the intelligence of the viewer by expecting us to believe they actually make any kind of sense.

It is far preferable to simply dismiss the contradictory elements rather than trying pretend they fit together as part of some grand plan. The mental gymnastics required to twist them around into such illogical shapes ends up being too tiring and frustrating to keep track of, so at this point I don’t bother even paying attention to a word of any so-called ‘official’ continuity explanations.

My sentiments exactly – which is why I stopped posting on TFN with any degree of regularity.

hairy_hen said:
Nothing will ever make them fit, no matter how much threadbare string and worn-out duct tape you try to wrap around them.

True.

Hardcore Legend said:

Except every film after ANH attempts to retcon the original film.

The difference is that the OT retcons actually make sense.

Not the “Leia as Luke’s sister” one.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Not the “Leia as Luke’s sister” one.

It’s always made sense to me.

Then you probably don’t hate ROTJ enough.

I actually don’t. It’s not perfect, but still a great movie. I think it would have been better if Leia was not his sister, but I don’t see how it’s a plot hole. It’s more like a plot “minor dent.”

Yes the inclusion is pretty poor, and overall the Dagobah part is poor. But the Luke rage scene is good so I let it slide. Would the structure of ROTJ allow for a new sister character? It’s not clear. But you could trim a lot to allow for it.

Cthulhunicron said:

Obi-Wan tells Luke “your father wanted you to have [the lightsaber] when you were old enough.” He also mentions Owen being afraid Luke would follow Obi-Wan on some “idealistic crusade” like Anakin.

This one bugs me because you can’t really justify it as Obi-Wan simply lying about Luke’s father. Why even bring it up? All he needed to say is “by the way, I have your father’s lightsaber, if you want it.” Why even mention anything about the “idealistic crusade” or Anakin wanting Luke to have the lightsaber?

It is psychology.
It is quite clear from the dialogs, that Luke probably idolizes his father, as he jumps right away when his father is mentioned in any way, because he represents something that he dreams of.
Obi-wan knows this, and tells this lie to Luke to motivate him, to manipulate him. Obi-wan wants him to believe that he can actually do something, that his father always wanted him to do.

If he’d say what you suggest, that “by the way, I have your father’s lightsaber, if you want it.”, it would only mean that he gets an object, that he can put in a drawer, and Obi-wan would not get the result he wants.

lovelikewinter said:

What makes it work is Mark Hamill’s performance and him taking the material seriously and not sending it up at all.

It doesn’t work and nothing can make it work. Hamill’s performance just makes it less painful than it otherwise could’ve been.