Sign In

Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 177

Author
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

I do think that StarkillerAG is right, that this trilogy is very much pointing to the middle as the right way. And I think that goes hand in hand with saving what we love and selflessness. Extremism is bad. The entire core of Buddhism is based on Buddha trying all the religions of his day and deciding to take the middle way. That is what Balance of the Force is all about. It is exactly what Luke told Rey. Balance lies in the middle path. Not embracing the dark, but not shunning it either. The Jedi had grown to shun the dark. Any hint that you were on the path to the Dark Side and you were in danger. Nevermind that teaching young Jedi how to handle themselves in all situations was the way forward, they shunned all contact with any path to the dark side. And where did it get them? diminished power and a Sith Lord as Chancellor of the Republic. Balance does not mean accepting the dark side, but knowing it and understanding how to avoid it. The Jedi stopped teaching those skills and started having Jedi turn to the Dark Side. The middle is the path to balance the force. Selflessness not hatred. It is all part of the same message. Light and dark in balance. Yin yang. The middle way.

Author
Time

yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

I do think that StarkillerAG is right, that this trilogy is very much pointing to the middle as the right way. And I think that goes hand in hand with saving what we love and selflessness. Extremism is bad. The entire core of Buddhism is based on Buddha trying all the religions of his day and deciding to take the middle way. That is what Balance of the Force is all about. It is exactly what Luke told Rey. Balance lies in the middle path. Not embracing the dark, but not shunning it either. The Jedi had grown to shun the dark. Any hint that you were on the path to the Dark Side and you were in danger. Nevermind that teaching young Jedi how to handle themselves in all situations was the way forward, they shunned all contact with any path to the dark side. And where did it get them? diminished power and a Sith Lord as Chancellor of the Republic. Balance does not mean accepting the dark side, but knowing it and understanding how to avoid it. The Jedi stopped teaching those skills and started having Jedi turn to the Dark Side. The middle is the path to balance the force. Selflessness not hatred. It is all part of the same message. Light and dark in balance. Yin yang. The middle way.

Well, the trilogy might have been pointing that way but they didn’t ultimately go that way. And I would not say what you’re talking about is the same thing StarkillerAG was talking about.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

She still prevents Finn from sacrificing himself and indirectly allows the First Order to destroy the door. Yeah, I know that Finn’s speeder probably wouldn’t have completely destroyed the cannon, but it could’ve at least damaged some of it.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

Author
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Whaaat? She was saving the Fathiers. It’s not an inconsistency at all, it was literally setting up her line.

Take special note of the end of the scene, where they think they’re captured again. Finn says it was worth it to destroy the city and “make them hurt.” But then Rose takes the saddle off a Fathier and says “Now it’s worth it.” Again, the scene is literally setting up her line at the end.

Author
Time

I recently rewatched The Director and the Jedi documentary this week and I just had this sense of happiness about Star Wars again that is rare for me to feel.

I have had a ton a things happen to me in my personal life and it has been almost too much to handle, but while I was watching the documentary it felt like I was transported to just before the film came out. Things online were simpler, nicer (i guess). The sense of dread that I have been feeling around Star Wars discourse and online discourse in general just went away for a brief moment in time. I miss that.

TPM ROTJ ESB TFA TLJ TROS ROTS ANH SOLO RO ATOC

Author
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

She still prevents Finn from sacrificing himself and indirectly allows the First Order to destroy the door. Yeah, I know that Finn’s speeder probably wouldn’t have completely destroyed the cannon, but it could’ve at least damaged some of it.

Just a little theorizing over here, please don’t take me too serious.

What if Finn would have had destroyed the canon? The FO would have brought another canon. The Rebellion was trapped inside the cave and did not knew about the natural exit until the critters disappeared, which were escaping the giant laser that blew up the main gate (fun how Finn is the one pointing this out).

On another note, see how saving Finn, one single rebel, reinforces the theme of hope. Neither a dozen nor 400 will bring down the FO, but if all the oppressed people -like broom boy- rise as one there’s hope.

“You want to sell me Death sticks” -Obi-Vod Kanobi

Author
Time

Peter Pan said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

She still prevents Finn from sacrificing himself and indirectly allows the First Order to destroy the door. Yeah, I know that Finn’s speeder probably wouldn’t have completely destroyed the cannon, but it could’ve at least damaged some of it.

Just a little theorizing over here, please don’t take me too serious.

What if Finn would have had destroyed the canon? The FO would have brought another canon. The Rebellion was trapped inside the cave and did not knew about the natural exit until the critters disappeared, which were escaping the giant laser that blew up the main gate (fun how Finn is the one pointing this out).

It would still take at least a day to clean up the remains of the destroyed cannon, transport another cannon through hyperspace, and use those weird transport things to land it on Crait. While that was happening, the Resistance would have had plenty of time to find an escape route.

On another note, see how saving Finn, one single rebel, reinforces the theme of hope. Neither a dozen nor 400 will bring down the FO, but if all the oppressed people -like broom boy- rise as one there’s hope.

The Resistance was small, but it was the only real rebel group fighting against the First Order. Without them, the galaxy would have been under the First Order’s control far longer. And also, we know from TROS that Luke’s sacrifice had no effect on the oppressed people, so the war would have ended much sooner if Rose had allowed Finn to destroy that cannon.

I understand Rian’s intentions with the “saving what you love” scene, but I feel like the scene itself was way too contrived and ridiculous.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

Author
Time

Peter Pan said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know DJ was wrong too, but the movie explicitly tries to make a compromise between DJ’s beliefs and the beliefs of the Resistance, resulting in the whole “save the things you love” scene, which was one of the worst scenes of the movie in my opinion. Throughout the movie, it felt like Rian was trying to make it seem like the heroes and villains should find a compromise, which doesn’t seem like a good lesson for a franchise all about the light always winning.

I’m not sure I understand. “Saving what we love” isn’t about finding a compromise. It’s about caring more for helping people than killing others. It’s the very ethos of the franchise. Selflessness, and all that. Vader takes down the Emperor not because of hatred, but because of love for his son. The Jedi defend what they love, the Sith attack using hatred to fuel them.

I get people not liking the line because it’s on the nose, but the message is very important. I don’t know what it has to do with DJ’s line.

That line creates an inconsistency in Rose’s character: earlier she was fighting what she hated (animal cruelty) by freeing the Fathiers at Canto Bight, and yet she stops Finn’s sacrifice and tells him that Saving What We Love™ is more important than Fighting What We Hate™, resulting in the First Order’s giant laser cannon blowing up the metal door.

Uh, wasn’t she explicitly saving what she loved by freeing the fathiers?

She still prevents Finn from sacrificing himself and indirectly allows the First Order to destroy the door. Yeah, I know that Finn’s speeder probably wouldn’t have completely destroyed the cannon, but it could’ve at least damaged some of it.

Just a little theorizing over here, please don’t take me too serious.

What if Finn would have had destroyed the canon? The FO would have brought another canon. The Rebellion was trapped inside the cave and did not knew about the natural exit until the critters disappeared, which were escaping the giant laser that blew up the main gate (fun how Finn is the one pointing this out).

On another note, see how saving Finn, one single rebel, reinforces the theme of hope. Neither a dozen nor 400 will bring down the FO, but if all the oppressed people -like broom boy- rise as one there’s hope.

Finn destroying/damaging the cannon might have at least stalled the First Order from destroying the Resistance.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

Author
Time

These complaints need some variety, remember that pendant Rose had made of some special alloy that DJ used to hotwire the ship or whatever? That was pretty contrived and lame, huh?

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

Author
Time

We will not rest until every single aspect of this film has been criticized!

Author
Time

He’s right, it’s a system we can’t afford to lose.

Author
Time

It’s critical we send an attack group there immediately.

I Don’t Even Like Pickles?

Author
Time

OutboundFlight said:

Not yet.

"It’s treason, then" plays in earrape

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

Author
Time

Luke is a sane character in an insane meta narrative across the ST.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

Author
Time

Maybe that’s why so many people found his character distasteful - he was the only one refusing to be part of the 'memberberries pantomime parade.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time

I agree that Luke was the only good character in the sequel trilogy, but I do feel like they took his character too far. I’m not saying Luke isn’t allowed to make mistakes, but I don’t think Luke from ROTJ would go to die on an island the instant something bad happened. He always seemed more hopeful than Obi-Wan or Yoda. I enjoyed Luke’s character arc, but I found it hard to accept that this is the same Luke from the OT, and I understand the complaints of those who felt they ruined his character.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

I agree that Luke was the only good character in the sequel trilogy, but I do feel like they took his character too far. I’m not saying Luke isn’t allowed to make mistakes, but I don’t think Luke from ROTJ would go to die on an island the instant something bad happened. He always seemed more hopeful than Obi-Wan or Yoda. I enjoyed Luke’s character arc, but I found it hard to accept that this is the same Luke from the OT, and I understand the complaints of those who felt they ruined his character.

They also undid Luke’s arc of overcoming darkness in Return of the Jedi. That moment he considered the cold-blooded murder of a sleeping Ben Solo undermines the scene in Return of the Jedi where he realizes his mistake after attacking Vader, tosses his lightsaber forward, and promises he will never turn to the dark side, knowing that it isn’t the way of the Jedi, which showed that he has matured to better face and overcome darkness.

He redeemed his father and conquered the darkness, only to fall victim to it yet again?

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.