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Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 180

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SilverWook said:

Mielr said:

joefavs said:


Unless everything we think we know about this film is completely off base, Luke's absence figures heavily into the plot. I'm totally fine with him barely being in it if it makes the story better. We've got two more of these on the way, I don't mind it if we don't get everything all at once.



Yeah, well Mark Hamill isn't getting any younger (and neither am I!) I may be dead before the next 2 come out! ;-)

Anyhow, good trailer. The trailers alone are already better movies than eps 1-3.

Mark put in a lot of effort getting into shape. That plus the time spent working on the film would seem to point away from a glorified cameo.

Unless they were secretly filming part of Episode 8 at the same time. ;)

 That's a good point. I think Luke is definitely in this for more than the one scene MSW insists on, but it'll still be a big reveal towards the end of the film.

I have to say, I'm extremely pleased to see it confirmed that the trailer music was not arranged by Williams. I thought it worked well enough for a trailer, and I adore the fact that they dusted off the love theme, but it would have been a serious bummer if those arrangements were indicative of the sound of the actual score. I'm not a fan of that kind of drum-heavy style at all.

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Lt. Hija said:

Now that someone has mentioned it, can somebody explain to me what work of Vader Kylo intends "to finish"?

Vader's last work - we witnessed - was to get rid of the Emperor and convert back to the bright side of the Force...?!?

 

Well, we witnessed it, all the other characters in the SW galaxy doesn't quite have our benefits though. It's very unlikely that anyone outside of the Rebels, and even then it's just hearsay, would know about it. The Empire would definitely consider it slander and possibly even counter-propaganda. It's possible that Kylo haven't even heard the story, and he definitively wouldn't believe it if he had. As far as he's concerned Vader and the Emperor was killed by Luke and/or got killed by the destruction of the Death Star II. Him looking for Luke could be both to finish the Jedi Purge and to avenge the death of Vader.

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joefavs said:

 

I have to say, I'm extremely pleased to see it confirmed that the trailer music was not arranged by Williams. I thought it worked well enough for a trailer, and I adore the fact that they dusted off the love theme, but it would have been a serious bummer if those arrangements were indicative of the sound of the actual score. I'm not a fan of that kind of drum-heavy style at all.

 While not as good as Williams's work, I liked the music. Gives me some hope for the non-Williams films like Rogue One, etc.  

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Agreed, Luke is the only eye-witness to what happened to his father and come to think about it, Luke might not have been too compelled to tell everybody that he was actually the son of Darth Vader.

But I think we can rest assured that the destruction of the second Death Star was somewhat communicated by the Alliance to the rest of the galaxy and accepted as the real thing (regardless of the S.E. ending).

The other thing is that Kylo has somehow acquired the helmet of Darth Vader from the burial site on Endor, already this suggests that Vader wasn't killed in the explosion of the Death Star. Although we do not know (yet) what kind of story came along with the head, I'd like to believe that Kylo would have been able to figure out that it's the result of cremation.

It currently looks to me like some kind of loose end and I'll wonder if the upcoming film is really going to elaborate on this.

Lucas on the colorization of the THREE STOOGES in 2004: "Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was."  Lucas on film preservation before Congress in 1988: "The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests."

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Let's hope the helmet of Darth Vader is less stupid than The Glove of Darth Vader.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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towne32 said:

joefavs said:

 

I have to say, I'm extremely pleased to see it confirmed that the trailer music was not arranged by Williams. I thought it worked well enough for a trailer, and I adore the fact that they dusted off the love theme, but it would have been a serious bummer if those arrangements were indicative of the sound of the actual score. I'm not a fan of that kind of drum-heavy style at all.

 While not as good as Williams's work, I liked the music. Gives me some hope for the non-Williams films like Rogue One, etc.  

 Oh, hearing something like this in an anthology film wouldn't bother me at all. I just don't want it in a mainline saga film.

Also, RE: how much the rest of the galaxy knows about what happened on the Death Star II, wasn't there a Legends novel where the Imperial remnant knew what happened and characterized Vader as a great traitor? Was that Shadows of Mindor? It doesn't look like TFA is going that route at all, but I always thought that was an interesting angle.

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Lt. Hija said:

The other thing is that Kylo has somehow acquired the helmet of Darth Vader from the burial site on Endor

 I think that could be a possible opening scene.  An unknown person going through the long-overgrown cremation site looking for the helmet.  An introduction giving us a look at how there is a new foe who not only believes in what Vader was but is also more than just a little off-center in his admiration of him.

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unamochilla2 said:

Lt. Hija said:

Now that someone has mentioned it, can somebody explain to me what work of Vader Kylo intends "to finish"?

Vader's last work - we witnessed - was to get rid of the Emperor and convert back to the bright side of the Force...?!?

I've been wondering the same thing.  In the ROTS, wasn't his work to eliminate all the Jedi and to become the most powerful?  Maybe Kylo doesn't want not even one Jedi (Luke) around.  Kylo does seem pretty powerful so I'm curious to know where he learned all this.  Self taught dark lord?

Well, there is the whole thing about Kylo having a master (who is not Sith either) named Snoke

Also, why didn't Luke train Leia to become a Jedi since she is technically a Skywalker?  Maybe she refused and decided it was better to become a General.

 This is one of the big mysteries of the film. Why is Luke in seclusion? Why hasn't he trained anyone?

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Whatever this building is and for whatever reason our heroes are there;

...there doesn't appear to be much left after Phasma gets through with it.

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timdiggerm said:

 

 This is one of the big mysteries of the film. Why is Luke in seclusion? Why hasn't he trained anyone?

My take on it is that he has trained some Jedi before going into hiding. Maz Kanata for one, as she seems to have force training of some sort judging by her dialogue. Where would she have got that from if not from Luke?

Also Han says "They're real" referring to the Jedi. Not they were real, but they ARE. My guess is that there are quite a few former pupils of Luke's scattered about the galaxy, having gone into seclusion because of...something.

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brash_stryker said:

My guess is that there are quite a few former pupils of Luke's scattered about the galaxy, having gone into seclusion because of...something.

My guess is the paparazzi. Nosy bastards don't know when enough's enough. 

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Anchorhead said:

Whatever this building is and for whatever reason our heroes are there;

...there doesn't appear to be much left after Phasma gets through with it.

 Ooooh that's interesting. I think that's probably Maz's castle?

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brash_stryker said:

timdiggerm said:

 

 This is one of the big mysteries of the film. Why is Luke in seclusion? Why hasn't he trained anyone?

My take on it is that he has trained some Jedi before going into hiding. Maz Kanata for one, as she seems to have force training of some sort judging by her dialogue. Where would she have got that from if not from Luke?

Also Han says "They're real" referring to the Jedi. Not they were real, but they ARE. My guess is that there are quite a few former pupils of Luke's scattered about the galaxy, having gone into seclusion because of...something.

I have picked up several fragments of rumors but they could indicate a pattern:

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: one theory that sounds credible to me was that Dagobah and in particular the cave with the man made structure inside used to be a Dark Lord's place and Yoda's presence somewhat counter-balanced the dark energy which also made him invisible to the Emperor and Vader

REBELS: Kanan thinks the temple on Lothal is of Jedi origin, but I think he could be mistaken because architecture and hieroglyphs suggest quite the opposite (according to Ralph McQuarrie)

THE FORCE AWAKENS: Somewhere it had been mentioned that Luke is doing something similar as Yoda did in ESB.

So, are the Jedi avoiding a confrontation with the new Dark Lords, let "mundanes" handle it first and just make sure that powerful Sith artefacts don't fall into the wrong hands?

Just my two 0.02 $

P.S. Phasma looks like a Cylon warrior from BSG 1978.

Lucas on the colorization of the THREE STOOGES in 2004: "Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was."  Lucas on film preservation before Congress in 1988: "The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests."

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Anchorhead said:

Whatever this building is and for whatever reason our heroes are there;

...there doesn't appear to be much left after Phasma gets through with it.

Uh, what an ugly set / set design.

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timdiggerm said:

 Ooooh that's interesting. I think that's probably Maz's castle?

 

I haven't noticed anything that points to that being her residence, but I also get the feeling it might be.  It seems decorated in such a way as to fit some sort of shaman.

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Anchorhead said:

Whatever this building is and for whatever reason our heroes are there;

...there doesn't appear to be much left after Phasma gets through with it.

 So, is this what was inside that "palace"? A lot of different flags outside, lots of different galactic species inside. Looks to me like it could be a hub of trade and commerce for the new republic.

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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That thought had crossed my mind, but I bet you're right on the money.  Walls look the same also.

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Lt. Hija said:



P.S. Phasma looks like a Cylon warrior from BSG 1978.

As Ralph McQuarrie did the early concept art for BSG, the circle in now complete. :)

 J.J. has said in an interview Phasma's name was inspired by the 1979 cult horror film Phantasm.

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Where were you in '77?

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FanFiltration said:

 So, is this what was inside that "palace"? A lot of different flags outside, lots of different galactic species inside. Looks to me like it could be a hub of trade and commerce for the new republic.

New Republic? Try "pirates"

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NeverarGreat said:

Yes, I've joined the supercut craze. So ashamed.

Rest assured, you will freeze in the icy rivers of Hell for this.

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Kylo Ren is taking this Darth Vader worshiping a little overboard...

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.