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Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 179

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Literally all of what you said has occurred to me...except for the stuff about Zuko. I'm not familiar with the Last Airbender.

The fact Kylo is established as someone who isn't scarred and damaged like Vader was (and we see him without his helmet at least twice), I've even wondered whether he'll be redeemed fairly early on in the trilogy, and switch allegiance. Maybe too much of a stretch, seeing as we already have Finn doing that.

Not that his face would have to be pretty and unspoilt to become an enduring good character, but it works better thematically. For instance, had the OT been written differently and carried on, I can't imagine Anakin hanging around looking like the spawn of Freddy Krueger. 

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Kylo's scars may well be all on the inside.

Anakin survived in one of the Infinities comics, with a slight change in wardrobe.

As I think the comic ends with this, I don't think they dealt with how others in the Rebellion would feel about him being around.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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kk650 said:

I haven't been following all the rumours but has anybody considered that Rey and Kylo Ren might be brother and sister, perhaps even twins to mirror Luke and Leia from the Original Trilogy? The way the positions of their heads are so similar and facing in the same direction in the poster, while Finn is facing in the other direction, and the way their weapons intermesh suggest that there could be a special connection between the two characters. Could Vader perhaps be his grandfather, which would explain even more his reverence of him?

 Certainly is within the realm of possibility.  Rey & Ren - doesn't take much of a stretch to make that connection.  That sort of relation wouldn't bother me too much.  Related to Vader would be a drag though.  Your idea of why he may be so enamored with him does makes sense. 

I'm just not a fan of Vader.  Didn't find him interesting in 1977, really don't find him interesting now.  He's never been anything other than one-dimensional.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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brash_stryker said:

Literally all of what you said has occurred to me...except for the stuff about Zuko. I'm not familiar with the Last Airbender.

The fact Kylo is established as someone who isn't scarred and damaged like Vader was (and we see him without his helmet at least twice), I've even wondered whether he'll be redeemed fairly early on in the trilogy, and switch allegiance. Maybe too much of a stretch, seeing as we already have Finn doing that.

Not that his face would have to be pretty and unspoilt to become an enduring good character, but it works better thematically. For instance, had the OT been written differently and carried on, I can't imagine Anakin hanging around looking like the spawn of Freddy Krueger. 

Family, reconciliation and redemption have always been strong themes that have gone hand in hand in Star Wars. I would not be surprised if they wanted to keep that going in this new trilogy.

I would imagine that if thats want they're planning to do with Kylo Ren, the change would most likely be gradual and will encompass the whole trilogy, not unlike Vader in the OT, another Skywalker family squabble with the rest of the galaxy in the middle, things tend to get a little messy when that happens haha glad i'm not the only one that picked up on this scenario as a real possibility.

If Kylo Ren and Rey are siblings, it kind of makes you wonder why she's just trying to mind her own business and hide away on Jakku. Something from the poster gives me the feeling that she has been trained as a Jedi but for whatever reason she's turned her back on being a Jedi and sought a life of solitude instead, hence why she uses a staff rather than a lightsaber. What happens in this first film will most likely force her to face that part of herself in order to protect Finn that appears to be untrained with a lightsaber and pretty terrified when Kylo Ren comes for him in the trailer after his initial show of bravado.

Kylo Ren perhaps was not trained as a Jedi because his mentor/father (Luke perhaps?) could sense something potentially dangerous in him and remembering what Obi Wan told him about his failure in training Anakin, decided to try to avoid making the same mistake, Kylo Ren gets training from the Knights of Ren instead and now has an axe to grind against his old mentor and all Jedis in general. All speculation of course but its fun to run with it. For the record, I think it's Han Solo that Rey is crying over there, will be interesting to see what's actually happened there when the film comes out, see whos right with all the jacket debate going on right now haha

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His hand was always mechanical. He may have simply have lost the artificial skin over time or isn't in a place he can get it replaced. It was damaged enough in ROTJ he put a glove over it.

Post Jedi, he may have opted to always leave it uncovered to remind him of how close he came to falling to the dark side.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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TWIST: Luke is a T-800.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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Anchorhead said:

kk650 said:

I haven't been following all the rumours but has anybody considered that Rey and Kylo Ren might be brother and sister, perhaps even twins to mirror Luke and Leia from the Original Trilogy? The way the positions of their heads are so similar and facing in the same direction in the poster, while Finn is facing in the other direction, and the way their weapons intermesh suggest that there could be a special connection between the two characters. Could Vader perhaps be his grandfather, which would explain even more his reverence of him?

 Certainly is within the realm of possibility.  Rey & Ren - doesn't take much of a stretch to make that connection.  That sort of relation wouldn't bother me too much.  Related to Vader would be a drag though.  Your idea of why he may be so enamored with him does makes sense. 

I'm just not a fan of Vader.  Didn't find him interesting in 1977, really don't find him interesting now.  He's never been anything other than one-dimensional.

I agree that Vader has never been particularly three dimensional character but to be a great villain you don't really have to be IMHO, you just have to be menacing and have real presence on screen and I think Vader has both by the bucketload in the Original Trilogy, which is what makes him one on the greatest villains ever for most people. It also helps that he's got those fantastic one liners like 'Apology accepted, Captain Needa'. The best villains need those as well haha Gary Oldman in Leon is one dimensional as well but that doesn't stop him being one of my favourite villains. He also has some fantastic one liners.

I personally have no problem with Vader being used as a motivating force for any of the characters, so long as they don't resurrect him or converse with him as a force ghost, his character arc is finished and his character/hayden christensen has no place in the new trilogy IMHO

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kk650 said: 

Something from the poster gives me the feeling that she has been trained as a Jedi but for whatever reason she's turned her back on being a Jedi and sought a life of solitude instead, hence why she uses a staff rather than a lightsaber.

Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone that that staff might be a lightsaber? ;-P

“Happy Halloween, ladies!”

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i suspect the same thing. the ends (or at least one of them) look a lot like parts of a lightsaber where the blade comes out to me

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DuracellEnergizer said:

kk650 said: 

Something from the poster gives me the feeling that she has been trained as a Jedi but for whatever reason she's turned her back on being a Jedi and sought a life of solitude instead, hence why she uses a staff rather than a lightsaber.

Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone that that staff might be a lightsaber? ;-P

It could very well be now that you mention it, the poster suggests as much by having it intermesh with Kylo Ren's lightsaber, though the fact that the light blades are not visible in the poster would suggest that if the staff is indeed a lightsaber, in this film she wants to keep it a secret. It would be a pretty cool twist if she reveals that the staff is actually a dual bladed lightsaber in order to save Finn in that fight with Kylo Ren.

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Dylanlip said:

Ziggy Stardust said:

A trend that I've noticed in the three previews of this film is that it's taking itself too seriously. Cryptic dialogue, an unrelenting dark/sad tone, and a refusal to say what the film is about, other than "it's about Star Wars." Where's the fun banter? The simple, swashbuckling adventure style?

Pretty important point here that's kinda being ignored. It's the best term I can link to that elusive "Star Wars feel". It's not just "Well the old films were from the 70s/80s, what'd you expect?" Star Wars is much more classic swashbuckler fantasy (Like the old Douglas Fairbanks films of the 10s/20s or serials like Flash Gordon) than sci-fi or modern action. Both OT and Indiana Jones master that style. Granted the characters in-universe may need some level of seriousness, but the near-deadpan expressions and dialouge, along with the lack of shots SHOWING said style in the trailer doesn't exactly give any hope that it'll "feel" like Star Wars to us, practical effects or not.

From what's given to us so far, I'm not hooked yet. But I guess we'll see. Remember that there was heavy denial at the release of Phantom Menace.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_1T4ilm8M

so serial

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I still wonder how they will continue without Vader and Palpatine. Vader is what comes to mind when people think of "Star Wars" and he spoke one of the most famous lines in film history. Palpatine has been behind everything for all six films and there was an entire prophecy devoted to defeating him. How does one continue beyond the deaths of these fundamental characters?

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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Anchorhead said:

kk650 said:

I haven't been following all the rumours but has anybody considered that Rey and Kylo Ren might be brother and sister, perhaps even twins to mirror Luke and Leia from the Original Trilogy? The way the positions of their heads are so similar and facing in the same direction in the poster, while Finn is facing in the other direction, and the way their weapons intermesh suggest that there could be a special connection between the two characters. Could Vader perhaps be his grandfather, which would explain even more his reverence of him?

 Certainly is within the realm of possibility.  Rey & Ren - doesn't take much of a stretch to make that connection.  That sort of relation wouldn't bother me too much.  Related to Vader would be a drag though.  Your idea of why he may be so enamored with him does makes sense. 

I'm just not a fan of Vader.  Didn't find him interesting in 1977, really don't find him interesting now.  He's never been anything other than one-dimensional.

Rumors say that Kylo is Han's son (I'm not sure if Leia is his mother) and Ren is actually Luke's daughter.  If true, I wonder who Rey's mother will turn out to be??

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joefavs said:


Unless everything we think we know about this film is completely off base, Luke's absence figures heavily into the plot. I'm totally fine with him barely being in it if it makes the story better. We've got two more of these on the way, I don't mind it if we don't get everything all at once.


Yeah, well Mark Hamill isn't getting any younger (and neither am I!) I may be dead before the next 2 come out! ;-)

Anyhow, good trailer. The trailers alone are already better movies than eps 1-3.

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kk650 said:


I personally have no problem with Vader being used as a motivating force for any of the characters, so long as they don't resurrect him or converse with him as a force ghost, his character arc is finished and his character/hayden christensen has no place in the new trilogy IMHO

 I agree.  People can be moved by someone, good or bad, without needing to be related to them.  We don't need to see a flashback and we don't don't need to see him speaking to a ghost. Kylo holding a piece of his old armor and having an internal conversation is all we need to see to understand his motivation. 

Six films spanning nearly thirty years is more than enough.  There are other people in the galaxy.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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Now that someone has mentioned it, can somebody explain to me what work of Vader Kylo intends "to finish"?

Vader's last work - we witnessed - was to get rid of the Emperor and convert back to the bright side of the Force...?!?

 

Lucas on the colorization of the THREE STOOGES in 2004: "Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was.Lucas on film preservation before Congress in 1988: "The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests."

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Mielr said:

joefavs said:


Unless everything we think we know about this film is completely off base, Luke's absence figures heavily into the plot. I'm totally fine with him barely being in it if it makes the story better. We've got two more of these on the way, I don't mind it if we don't get everything all at once.



Yeah, well Mark Hamill isn't getting any younger (and neither am I!) I may be dead before the next 2 come out! ;-)

Anyhow, good trailer. The trailers alone are already better movies than eps 1-3.

Mark put in a lot of effort getting into shape. That plus the time spent working on the film would seem to point away from a glorified cameo.

Unless they were secretly filming part of Episode 8 at the same time. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Lt. Hija said:

Now that someone has mentioned it, can somebody explain to me what work of Vader Kylo intends "to finish"?

Vader's last work - we witnessed - was to get rid of the Emperor and convert back to the bright side of the Force...?!?

 

I've been wondering the same thing.  In the ROTS, wasn't his work to eliminate all the Jedi and to become the most powerful?  Maybe Kylo doesn't want not even one Jedi (Luke) around.  Kylo does seem pretty powerful so I'm curious to know where he learned all this.  Self taught dark lord?

Also, why didn't Luke train Leia to become a Jedi since she is technically a Skywalker?  Maybe she refused and decided it was better to become a General.

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I hope that isn't a fallen Chewie Rey is crying over? at 1:45 into the trailer.

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After the negative reaction to Chewie's demise in the novel Vector Prime back in 1999, I doubt they'd want to open that can of worms again. ;)

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