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Can Episode VII ignore the prequels?

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Do you think that JJ Abrams will see the prequels as important continuity? Do you think he'll abandon the prequels to have a fresher start? I think it would be okay if he kept the basic backstory of episodes 1-3. But I think Abrams should abandon the midi-chlorians forever. What do you think?

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Didn't Abrams cite the prequels as partly inspiring the Star Trek reboot?

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Of course the PT can be ignored. The question is if it will be ignored.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, no PT characters/events/storylines/etc. should ever be overtly mentioned or alluded to. I wouldn't mind seeing some PT species or planets show up, but anything more than that is anathema.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Of course the PT can be ignored. The question is if it will be ignored.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, no PT characters/events/storylines/etc. should ever be overtly mentioned or alluded to. I wouldn't mind seeing some PT species or planets show up, but anything more than that is anathema.

Would that really be so bad, though? The OT mentioned the Clone Wars, Anakin's fall to the dark side, Padme (though not by name), etc. I see no problem with the ST acknowledging characters and events from the PT. Some people hate the PT and like to ignore it, I get that. So when you watch the ST, you can just pretend the references to the PT are just backstory (like in the OT).

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Ingnoring them, why not, but contradicting them, no they can't. Or else it would be some sort of reboot . And the title EPISODE VII is there to tell us that it's really a sequel trilogy. (well some could say that the PT and the OT already contradict themselves from certain Lucas points of view... but well)

I don't see Lucasfilm completely turn their back on PT fans. I mean, love it or hate it, but the people who love the PT and Clone Wars are a huge part of the audience who kept Star Wars a succesful franchise. Even if I'm an old fan of the OT, I would be a bit sorry for the PT fans if the new movies just completely relate on OT nostalgia without assuming a bit of the PT.

There's only two ways to please everyone (and for 4 billions, I think Disney want to please everyone!):

- Make a sequel trilogy with elements of the OT and the PT (as well as new ideas that please everyone...!)

- Make a sequel trilogy without any element of the OT nor the PT. Make something completely new in the same universe that is so awesome that everyone would be pleased. (but in this case why keeping the word EPISODE in the title? Make it a "Standalone trilogy".)

That's why I think that if (as it seems to be) the OT characters are returning in the sequel trilogy, then some elements of the PT will be there too. 

"Pleasing everyone" is not always a good way to make interesting art, but in this case I think it's the option that will be chosen, for Episode VII at least.

I could be wrong though... if they think their new ideas are strong enough, they could just use the OT characters to a minimum and almost make no references to the PT. Time will tell.

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DominicCobb said:

Would that really be so bad, though? The OT mentioned the Clone Wars,

That's entirely different though.  That was just two words in a sentence,  never meant to go beyond that utterance. 

I'd love it it Abrams did little more than name-check the prequels.  Time to move away from Lucas.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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If Anchorhead can ignore Episodes I, II, III, V, and VI, I don't see why not...

;-)

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Ignore is a strong word.  I do like that probe droid from Empire. 

;-)

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"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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OneCentSky said:

Do you think that JJ Abrams will see the prequels as important continuity? Do you think he'll abandon the prequels to have a fresher start? I think it would be okay if he kept the basic backstory of episodes 1-3. But I think Abrams should abandon the midi-chlorians forever. What do you think?

Nothing from the prequels strictly has to be acknowledged in the sequel films. Usually it's the lazier of EU stories that attempt to put PT stuff with the OT characters. They don't have to be written off as non-canon, but they don't technically need to be followed, especially if they do end up doing an original story.

The occasional allusion to past events is probably a given, though.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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It was obvious Lucas wanted to take the prequels in a different direction but the references to the originals were very badly done.

Its obvious that even with special edition 3.0 in 2011 the  continuity does not match between the trilogies.

I do hope that sensibilities and design are the same as the OOT with the updates in film technology.

Ignore the prequels i hope so.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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The fact that one person engineered a galactic war and then was Galactic Emperor for 23 years seems pretty hard to ignore.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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If they can reference events from the PT without a level of detail that invokes specific scenes/imagery/characterizations, then I would be satisfied.

For example...

Reference Palpatine's rise as an abuse of political power aided by the shroud of the dark side, but don't give us exposition about specific aspects of his plan.  We shouldn't need to know that he was a senator from Naboo, or how he controlled both sides of the Clone Wars, or who all of his apprentices were, or that he fought Yoda and won, etc...

By all means discuss the the fall of the Jedi Order and blame that on their deep involvement in politics, but don't explain every detail about how Anakin was close to the Palpatine, don't use Order 66 by name, don't even mention that the jedi were painted as traitors, etc...

---

In other words, if they must reference the PT, keep it in the form of general ideological overviews.  Stay away from detailed exposition of past events, and make sure the plot doesn't rely on such exposition.

An extreme case of this might be something like this... if we have a scene where Ghost Anakin has to sit down and explain to his grandchildren the Story of Darth Plagueis, so they can learn more about whatever enemy they are facing.  This level of exposition and relying on past events would be a slap in the face to any audience.  Frankly, I would walk out of the theater.

Keep the references light, and use them sparingly.

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The EU is far worse than the prequels.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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darklordoftech said:

The EU is far worse than the prequels.

You speak of the EU as if it's an actual film titled Star Wars: Expanded Universe that you dismiss as easily as TPM.

How can you reject that many books, comics, and games as a whole? What EU have you even encountered? I don't mean to sound confrontational, but seriously think about what you're claiming.

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Reegar said:

darklordoftech said:

The EU is far worse than the prequels.

You speak of the EU as if it's an actual film titled Star Wars: Expanded Universe that you dismiss as easily as TPM.

How can you reject that many books, comics, and games as a whole? What EU have you even encountered? I don't mean to sound confrontational, but seriously think about what you're claiming.

I know exactly what I'm claiming. I have read and researched the EU and I hate every bit of it.

Anyway, the sequel trilogy can do things to compensate for the prequels. For example, Luke could say, "The Jedi used to believe in midichlorians, but we now know that midichlorians don't exist."

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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Thrawn, Legacy of The Force, "tales of x"

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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darklordoftech said:

Reegar said:

darklordoftech said:

The EU is far worse than the prequels.

You speak of the EU as if it's an actual film titled Star Wars: Expanded Universe that you dismiss as easily as TPM.

How can you reject that many books, comics, and games as a whole? What EU have you even encountered? I don't mean to sound confrontational, but seriously think about what you're claiming.

I know exactly what I'm claiming. I have read and researched the EU and I hate every bit of it.

Anyway, the sequel trilogy can do things to compensate for the prequels. For example, Luke could say, "The Jedi used to believe in midichlorians, but we now know that midichlorians don't exist."

Except that they could check your blood and count the midichlorophill in it, so obviously it exists in this 9 episode version of Star Wars. That's like saying, "We used to believe in HIV, but we now know that it never existed." Unfortunately, it isn't something the Jedi believe in, it's something they've proved.

And it's very, very lame.

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Maybe bacterial science in the Star Wars universe is really off.

Whatever the case, it would be funny if Luke said that midichlorians don't exist.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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darklordoftech said:


Anyway, the sequel trilogy can do things to compensate for the prequels. For example, Luke could say, "The Jedi used to believe in midichlorians, but we now know that midichlorians don't exist."


In my eyes, I would much rather have a PT plot point be ignored than try to be fixed.  A scene like this would take me out of the moment.  Memories of Qui-Gon and young Anakin, memories of Palpatine's silly create life speech, these would all come flooding back and seriously take me out of what would probably be a meaningful conversation about the force (the only place a scene like this could probably fit).  Overall, it just seems unnecessary, other than appeasing a few disheartened fans.

I don't mean to pick on your idea, specifically, but it was a good example for me to explain why I feel it is more important to let the prequels be, reference them only in a broader manner, and leave the details out.  That way, those who want to ignore the prequels can continue to do so, but those who enjoy the prequels aren't completely left out.

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Humby said:

darklordoftech said:


Anyway, the sequel trilogy can do things to compensate for the prequels. For example, Luke could say, "The Jedi used to believe in midichlorians, but we now know that midichlorians don't exist."


In my eyes, I would much rather have a PT plot point be ignored than try to be fixed.  A scene like this would take me out of the moment.  Memories of Qui-Gon and young Anakin, memories of Palpatine's silly create life speech, these would all come flooding back and seriously take me out of what would probably be a meaningful conversation about the force (the only place a scene like this could probably fit).  Overall, it just seems unnecessary, other than appeasing a few disheartened fans.

I don't mean to pick on your idea, specifically, but it was a good example for me to explain why I feel it is more important to let the prequels be, reference them only in a broader manner, and leave the details out.  That way, those who want to ignore the prequels can continue to do so, but those who enjoy the prequels aren't completely left out.

If you avoid dealing with one problem, you create more. For example, if you let midichlorians exist without mentioning them, you'd have to come up with a reason for the Jedi not bloodtesting people that they would bloodtest according to all logic. In case you're wondering, I do think that The Joker's non-mentioning in Dark Knight Rises is awkward.

Additionally, there are things that I WANT to be mentioned. For example, Palpatine's scheming.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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darklordoftech said:


The EU is far worse than the prequels.


If this isn't the stupidest thing I've ever read on the Internet, it sure as hell is damn close.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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There's only one character, as far as we know, who actually was in the prequels and hasn't had their memory wiped. Something might be mentioned if it has bearing on what our heroes have to deal with now, but only in the same way we would talk about a historical event that happened over fifty years ago.

There's no need to mention midichlorians out loud. We know what Jedis are and what they can do, and the Force doesn't need technobabble explanations to slow down the plot. Luke probably has trained an entire new generation by now, and they're doing the recruitment and training offscreen somewhere.

A hologram or portrait of Padme seen in Leia's residence is more than enough.

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darklordoftech said:

Humby said:

darklordoftech said:


Anyway, the sequel trilogy can do things to compensate for the prequels. For example, Luke could say, "The Jedi used to believe in midichlorians, but we now know that midichlorians don't exist."


In my eyes, I would much rather have a PT plot point be ignored than try to be fixed.  A scene like this would take me out of the moment.  Memories of Qui-Gon and young Anakin, memories of Palpatine's silly create life speech, these would all come flooding back and seriously take me out of what would probably be a meaningful conversation about the force (the only place a scene like this could probably fit).  Overall, it just seems unnecessary, other than appeasing a few disheartened fans.

I don't mean to pick on your idea, specifically, but it was a good example for me to explain why I feel it is more important to let the prequels be, reference them only in a broader manner, and leave the details out.  That way, those who want to ignore the prequels can continue to do so, but those who enjoy the prequels aren't completely left out.

If you avoid dealing with one problem, you create more. For example, if you let midichlorians exist without mentioning them, you'd have to come up with a reason for the Jedi not bloodtesting people that they would bloodtest according to all logic. In case you're wondering, I do think that The Joker's non-mentioning in Dark Knight Rises is awkward.

Additionally, there are things that I WANT to be mentioned. For example, Palpatine's scheming.

Avoiding a problem may not work in real life, but framing a story to exclude awkward continuity issues is a good strategy in movies. A movie is like a dream in more ways than one. It need only be engaging and continuous in the moment. There's no reason for Leia to explain the nuanced reasons why she is leading the Death Star to the Rebel Base. It would simply slow the story down, and reasons can be invented later in the viewer's mind. There should be reasons for every action of course, but they don't need to be stated outright.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
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