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2006 OT DVD: The Crawl on Star Wars — Page 2

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Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: zombie84
This still doesn't answer the question though: why is it different than the EOD crawl? Clearly the EOD crawl is newly struck from a film source, however the OOT crawl is very different, in terms of image quality, image characteristics and colouring.
The EOD crawl was coloured to match the 2004-crawl colouring. The EOD suffers more compression then the OUT, and the EOD crawl seems to be cropped differently (however, this could be because it's the "whole frame", and the OUT disc is cropped to the anamorphic ratio).


But the two are from completely different raw sources. The EOD one is even differently exposed, with fainter stars (is this why the star wars logo appears to receed quicker?). The OOT however uses what appears to be the very same backdrop from the 2004 DVD crawl (incidentally being the original one) which also leads me to believe that perhaps this is a re-creation--with the raw backdrop on file, the crawl could simply be digitally done, without the need for a dissolve to match the footage, as would have been required if they used the EOD file. What is the starfield like for the stardestroyer fly-by then? Is it also the same as the 2004 disk? If so, it may mean that they re-created the 1977 crawl using the same elements and technology that they used to re-create the 1981 crawl for the 2004 disk, and made a new composite using the 2004 fly-by.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
But the two are from completely different raw sources. Not necessarily. It's likely they're different transfers, though.Originally posted by: zombie84
The OOT however uses what appears to be the very same backdrop from the 2004 DVD crawl (incidentally being the original one) which also leads me to believe that perhaps this is a re-creation
The starfiled is the same... I used the stars to help me know when the crawl was "the same frame"... I don't know if I captured exactly correctly... but I did my best.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
And that just proves that you're an asshole about everything, even when you may have a point.
I was pointing out the fact that zombie84 hadn't checked his facts first. He deserved to have that called out, I don't see how that means I'm being an "asshole". I'm trying to contribute here, not partake in a flame-war. I said that when the DVD is released I would prove it's the original crawl, and here I have.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Ya know, if someone can rip the crawl from the new DVDs, I can directly compare it to the EoD doc. I'd prefer to compare the actual movement of both crawls, rather than rely on a series of screencaps.


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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Ya know, if someone can rip the crawl from the new DVDs, I can directly compare it to the EoD doc. I'd prefer to compare the actual movement of both crawls, rather than rely on a series of screencaps.


Hey everyone.....let's chill a bit. I didn't want to start a flame war here.

MBJ....I appreciate your efforts if you could do that. That's the kind of analysis I was hoping someone here would make.

When someone gets these today, can they please do a compare like MBJ says above or provide us with the materials we need to do this.
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Comparing screenshots provided by Boris in another thread:

OOT:
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4526/sw002sd0.png

EOD:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9162/eodcz3.png

Now is it just me or is the angle of the crawl subtly different in the OOT version? The original crawl was filmed at a slightly different angle than the rest of the series, from the looks of things it was slightly flatter looking. The ANH version was re-filmed probably at the same time that the titles were being readied for ESB, and ROTJ then used the same template. I dunno. The two don't look like they match to me.
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Nice catch! Here is a side by side version (perhaps easier to see the angle change):

http://kidsquid.com/files/starwars/title_angles.png

Note: I captured the same sized lower left rectangle of both images, but I had to move the OUT image so that the text would line up at the top.
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Wait a minute ... both those caps are 720x576. EOD is anamorphic while GOUT is not.
I think you should resize those images to square pixels before comparing angles.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Here's my two cents:

The EOD crawl clip transfer was done by the documentarians specifically for that documentary. It's not certain that Lucasfilm would use the same transfer that they used, or even have access to it necessarily. LFL may have done their own transfer of the original elements specific to their own usage, assuming that the crawl is the real deal. This would explain why it might look slightly different.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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Darth Mallwalker is right about the angle thing. Amazingly, the best supported argument so far is from boris, so I'm thinking it is original until MBJ proves otherwise.
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Ahh, sorry.. I was deceived by both source images having the same dimensions.
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Originally posted by: Darth Mallwalker
Wait a minute ... both those caps are 720x576. EOD is anamorphic while GOUT is not.
I think you should resize those images to square pixels before comparing angles.


True.

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I don't need any screen caps to confirm the angle change. It was one of the most obvious differences between the original crawl and all subsequent ones .... not to be snarky, but instantly noticeable to anyone who had seen Star Wars in '77 a bunch of times.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
[...] instantly noticeable to anyone who had seen Star Wars in '77 a bunch of times.
I saw Star Wars in '77 a bunch of times, but I don't have eidetic memory.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Originally posted by: calamari
Nice catch! Here is a side by side version (perhaps easier to see the angle change):

http://kidsquid.com/files/starwars/title_angles.png

Note: I captured the same sized lower left rectangle of both images, but I had to move the OUT image so that the text would line up at the top.


Look at the letters and their relative position to the star background. Either it is a very well done recreation, or it might indeed be sourced from original elements. And yes, the angle change is anamorphic VS non-anamorphic.

Also, the graphical representation of the letters matches exactly.

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http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8456/goutvseodcrawlyd7.png

Okay, so when you resize the EOD to account for anamorphic, the angle and layout match exactly.
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Originally posted by: THX
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8456/goutvseodcrawlyd7.png

Okay, so when you resize the EOD to account for anamorphic, the angle and layout match exactly.


Perhaps we were a little bit too fast here, dismissing the crawl as newly cgi generated....

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I was about to believe it was the real thing (or at least perfectly recreated) until Obi Jheewhyen said that he remembered that the angle was different originally. Now I'm not sure what to think.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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With all due respect to THX, the reason I'd rather see video being compared, rather than screencaps, is because I want to see if the "wiggle" is the same. Not trying to be impossible, but having created my own crawl from the EoD documentary, I noticed a stark difference between the smoothness of mine to the wobble of the original (which, again, was preferable to me - I just haven't gotten around to adding "wiggle" to mine.)

When you've looked at these things frame-by-frame at high magnification, these are the little things that tend to stick out.

I wonder if Netflix has these yet.....

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Although this thing now appears to be pretty top notch--whether real or re-created--i am now more curious about the fact that the EOD version is an entirely different transfer and one obviously taken from a film print. The OOT crawl clip supplied by Boba Feta looks suspiciously digital in its look and movements, even though there is the PAL speed-up. Furthermore, why is the colouring changed? The original was more of a deep yellow, as EOD shows, rather than the gold of previous home video versions (what do the PT/SE look like? I can't remember now--my memory is that they are sort of in between the gold and yellow).

The ANH-SE features a digitally re-created crawl. With the original backdrop. And perfectly matching text and movements. Perfectly integrated with the star destroyer fly-by.
So, it is definitly possible to have a perfect, re-created crawl. They have all the elements available.
If it really was the true, film-transfered original, why wouldn't they use the EOD footage? My guessing is because the difference in image characteristics made it difficult to integrate into the original footage, and that it would be easier to simply use the template created for the SE/PT and simply re-time the text movements to match what is seen on EOD. This still doesn't explain why they went with the revised gold colouring though. Obviously, its not a NEW transfer, as they would have obviously advertised making new film transfers for this release, and instead only reference scouring the LFL archives for material--in other words for the pre-transfered 1977 crawl. But this is not the pre-transfered 1977 crawl, as was displayed in EOD. This is something else, something entirely new. Perhaps a re-creation?

It looks good, but I'm still not 100% convinced yet.
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I agree with MBJ that no single frame comparison can be considered proof overall. But it does prove that the angle is the same on the GOUT as on the EOD crawl.

As far as the color is concerned, I don't think the EOD color is accurate - I think it was timed to match the SE it came with, which are more orange, like the PT. The GOUT one looks more accurate, and matches the other two movies.