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Info: Holiday Special on 16mm? — Page 4

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Originally posted by: olzen
"The two-hour visual and audio delight stars the cast from the hit motion picture, "Star Wars," along with special guest stars in a live-animated-musical-pot pourri of pure entertainment complete with astonishing electronic special effects."

No... no... NO!!!




?? astonishing electronic special effects ??
§ JxF §
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/Jediii_2006/box/blu-sw.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/Jediii_2006/box/starwars_ani.gif
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/489/bluraydisc2lk9.jpg
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I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I have a feeling this is legit. Some really unexpected things have popped up in the past, things that nobody even thought existed. If it is real, I'm going to guess that it was produced for exhibition at military installations. Most likely during the holiday season of '78.

Also, looking at his previous auctions for the vintage Martin, he is encouraging local pickup. I think if that's the case, he shouldn't have a problem with someone picking up the film in person as well. Scammers don't usually meet you in person.

But I do agree with what has been said, the seller is not making things easy. He could be sitting on a small fortune and his responsiveness, or lack thereof, is mind boggling.

Oh, and that bingo ball auction may just make me rethink everything.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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Okay--

1. It occurred to me that the seller here seems to be only offering one reel of film, as far as I can tell.

2. He claims that the film is "just a tad over 90 minutes" (it says 97 minutes on the canister in magic marker as well).

3. How much film fits on a 16mm reel? (think back to school days and how often they had to change the reels during the film)

4. Did research: standard 7 inch 16mm reel = 11 minutes of film. Even if you had a 14 inch reel, it would only be 38.5 minutes max.

5. The Star Wars Holiday Special would not even come CLOSE to fitting on a single 16mm reel.

6. The auction is a fraud. I don't know what this guy has on this reel, but it's not the Holiday Special.

7. I am attempting to retract my bid. I wish I could warn the others to do the same, but I can't get their contact info.

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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i have a bunch of stolen school films and i can verify what skot has said
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Getting money back through Paypal depends on him having money in his account. If he has money in it from other auctions it'll all be locked in when you file for a refund.

Steve
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Ha, the man has a excellent point. Funny that no one thought of that before. What if you contact ebay and tell them of your suspision if they wont let you retrack your bid. Maybe they will warn the others then. Really it is nonsense for this guy to get away with this. Also that bingo ball is really sketchy too. I highly doubt he has struck lucky so many times, and if he did and he really believe it is the ball, why sell the thing? And a lucky bingo ball is nothing of worth anyway, not even that likely there are ebayers searching for such things. He might have just placed it on auction for the very reason of trying to solidify is HS reel auction. We will see.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Took a look at the pics. Definitely 16mm. It's a 14 inch reel, though not full - I'd say about 30 min. I was initially pleased with the Magic Marker as film cans are often labelled poorly like this and "Star Wars Holiday Media" had a strangely authentic ring to it. However, "97 mins" definitely looked like it could be adapted from "17 mins". But then, if you look closely, the word Media looks like it was there before (reddish blurring around letters) and the other words were added around it, then "Media" was gone over to make it match better. But if you were planning a rip-off why not have the OT in mint condition on 16mm? Look at the prices they got recently.
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The guy wrote back this morning after I called him out on this, and claims now that there are actually 2 reels in that canister. Even if that's true, they still can't equal 97 minutes. My only question now is, what *is* on there, really?

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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It's certainly impossible to fit 97 mins on two reels - and even if there were two, why would he only show one in the pics? It's just such a weird choice for a scam - there are plenty of more valuable things you could pretend to have. BTW, the camera pointed at a TV showing the DVD idea is a no-go - it would cost him more for the stock, processing and printing than could be made on the auction.
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He claims to have limited technology, but he had no problem of posting a pic of a stupid bingo ball. So we know he has the technology to take pics and post them, but yet he didn't do so right away. Then he had to take a long time to post the pics, my bet is he ran out searching at some old thrift stores or junk shops somewhere looking for a reel of 16mm. Now he'll probably go out and get another one to stick in as the other half. I doubt there would be anything of any interest to us on that/those reels, could be some of his or somebody elses old family videos or they could even be blank. If there had been more time it could have been fun toying with him instead of calling him on it. For example to tell him something like "since a standard 16mm reel holds 120mins, is there anything tacked onto the end after the special? Some of the more rarer reels of the HW reportedly had cast interviews after the feature." If he knows nothing about 16mm as he seems to he might have fallen for it and said that either the end of the reel is just blank, or maybe even claimed that he remembers there being interviews at the end but isn't sure. Then he would have had nowhere to go, couldn't possible claim there are two reel then.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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First I agree it's a hoax BUT....

It's certainly impossible to fit 97 mins on two reels



16" reels can hold 2000 feet of 16mm film (super 16 and Type W) film which is 55.32 minutes so two reels would cover 110 minutes (multiply 0.02766 x total feet = run time)

The thing is, I think in 1978 the TV stations got either/or 2" quad tape (a reel also) and some stations MAY HAVE gotten 16mm - BASED on what the said studio used for broadcast.

SO, it is possible that there are a few 16mm reel tapes out there, but I think the studio owned them so they had to be returned upon request.

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Yes, it could fit onto two 2000ft spools - but it looks like the guy only has one. There are cans that will hold two, however, and as Rik says, some stations may have wanted 16mm back then. Ultimately, though, even if this was the real deal, I doubt you'd get a better transfer than the KCCI version out of it.
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So, did someone here actually win the accursed thing?
Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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And it sold for over $400!!!
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Originally posted by: SilverWook
So, did someone here actually win the accursed thing?


I hope so. Either somebody's gonna be deeply disappointed or discover that he/she is now in posession of the holy grail of bad taste!
"The things that stick in my mind and make me laugh were, like, memos worried about whether or not the Wookie should have pants. They're looking at this thing and saying, "Couldn't he have some lederhosen?" This is great. Of all the things to worry about, the Wookie has no pants." -Mark Hamill
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If it wasn't someone from this forum it will probably be some guy who doesn't own a projector who won't even attempt to view it and put it away as a collectible. So if it is just a film shot from a televison broadcast we may never know.

Hopefully it won't be that way. I am so curious of the outcome.
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The buyer, r2deux, is, IIRC, the same guy/gal who bought the complete 'scope trilogy on 16mm that sold on ebay late last year. Looking through his/her purchases, (s)he seems a serious 16mm collector. I contacted him/her about trying to arrange a telecine but got no reply.
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Maybe someone from here should contact the winning bidder in a week or so, stating that we are a group of "concerned individuals" who doubt the authenticity of the item and wish to verify the contents of the film reel.

Perhaps we could send a local delegation to view it.

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I let it go as a probable fake, knowing I'd be outbid long before eBay would answer back about retracting my bid. In the last 27 seconds, 3 guys were fighting for the final bid (using auction snipers no doubt). The guy who won apparently has bought 16mm films in the past, so hopefully he knows what he's doing. I contacted him on behalf of starwarsholidayspecial.com, so hopefully he gets in touch. If it's the real deal, hopefully I'll get some information about it for the site. If it's not, I'll publicise the fact that it was a fake (if the buyer wants).

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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The seller now has a 16mm print of Friday the 13th up for sale, he also mentioned that there was no vinegar smell from the HS reel - This could mean two things

1 - He knows about 16mm reels
2 - He's scouted around ebay and picked the phrase up

Wish the buyer would answer some mails! Might be worth bidding on something of his and then dropping it in conversation!

I bought it, therefore i own it, right?
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I checked and there was still no feedback left for the seller. I would have thought it would have made it to the buyer by now. I was thinking since he does seem to be a big SW reel collector as he bought that other set at a large price, and he paid a good deal for this reel, maybe he wont admit it if it is fake. Or maybe or won't even check it, might just shelf the thing in vault.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Or maybe the buyer was Lucas and he's now one step closer to "destroying every copy."

In other words, Rikter, if there's a knock at your door - don't answer it!
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Well, the guy who won it is from France... so as soon as I have time, I'm going to send him another e-mail only this time in French. And I'll keep bugging him until he finally answers me. I hate it when people refuse to share information...

--SKot

Projects:
Return Of The Ewok and Other Short Films (with OCPmovie) [COMPLETED]
Preserving the…cringe…Star Wars Holiday Special [COMPLETED]
The Star Wars TV Commercials Project [DORMANT]
Felix the Cat 1919-1930 early film shorts preservation [ONGOING]
Lights Out! (lost TV anthology shows) [ONGOING]
Iznogoud (1995 animated series) English audio preservation [ONGOING]

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Keep at it Skott!

Just out of interest I found a copy of a 1968 UK TV broadcast (Not of the Holiday Special!) that had been filmed on 16mm ie; someone pointing a 16mm camera at the TV!

Still possible that this is a reel recorded in that fashion, suppose technically he hasnt misrepresented the item if this turns out to be the case.

Itchin to find out!
I bought it, therefore i own it, right?
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I peeked at the listing again for the heck of it. The seller is now "not a registered user". (Which makes leaving any feedback impossible.) So, what was more fake? The 16mm reel, or the Brokeback Mountain screen worn shirt he was peddling last week?
Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?