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TFA: A Gentle Restructure (Released) — Page 2

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Jackpumpkinhead said:

Kexikus said:

Really looks great now! I would have placed them even further away but it’ good as it is too. I think there should be more TIEs though, the fleet in your shots seems quite small compared to what we see later in the Rey scene. And I would maybe try and make them a little brighter. I don’t know if that makes any sense but I feel like it could look better.

it seems as though everyone wants to see them further away, which i may try, idk. as far as there not being enough in the fleet, i think you are wrong. if you re-examine the shot where rey sees the fleet, we really dont see that many ties. besides, why would you send a huge fleet of ties to take our one little castle of seemingly unknowing and off guard bar patrons, and the same applies to the trooper transports. at least thats the way i see it. i will try making them “brighter”. i did try to give them a bit of a sky color tint so as to seem like they are in the distance somewhat.

I just checked the whole sequence again and you are right. There are only 10 TIEs in the shot where Rey spots them just like in your new shot. There are however at least 22 TIEs seen in the shot directly after Poe says: “Don’t let these dogs scare you.” Some of those additional TIEs probably arrived together with Kylos shuttle, so I guess 10 is fine 😃 Although there could be a few more since we might not have seen all of them in the Rey shot.
And to continue being nitpicky: There are at least four troop transports coming to the castle. One is seen taking of shortly after Kylo lands and three more are leaving at the end, but I guess that doesn’t exactly matter 😉

TL;DR You’re right^^

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 (Edited)

I think the ties need some highlights similar to the star destroyer. Also maybe take down the black levels in the ties. Then its about done.

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@Jackpumpkinhead - Looks great to me, nice work. Just a small suggestion, but maybe you could make the destroyer a bit darker in colour to be more in fitting with the style of the first order ships, and differentiate it from the old Imperial version.

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 (Edited)

https://vimeo.com/165767941

Viewing this again, it looks to me like the ships arrive from the other side of the forest, which is why they’re skimming the trees where Rey is hiding. I’d suggest giving some more movement to the Star Destroyer, as it is entering the frame from right to left. There’s no need to show the individual fighters and landing craft, since they are all shown later to be traveling fairly horizontally over the forest to the castle, presumably to be a surprise. If everyone saw TIEs and landing craft approaching the castle, there would be immediate pandemonium, but with just the distant Star Destroyer, it’s a bit more believable that there would be a few moments of relative calm beforehand.

In my opinion, the continuity is this: The Star Destroyer enters the system and launches attack crafts before it becomes visible to the castle, and only appears overhead moments before the attack group as a safeguard against escape.

JEDIT: In my ideal version, Finn looks up to see an escaping ship destroyed with lasers, but the source of the lasers is hidden behind the clouds. Then we just start to see the ship come out of the haze and cloud (and possibly the smoke of the explosion) as Finn says that ‘It’s the First Order, they’ve done it!’

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NeverarGreat said:

https://vimeo.com/165767941

Viewing this again, it looks to me like the ships arrive from the other side of the forest, which is why they’re skimming the trees where Rey is hiding. I’d suggest giving some more movement to the Star Destroyer, as it is entering the frame from right to left. There’s no need to show the individual fighters and landing craft, since they are all shown later to be traveling fairly horizontally over the forest to the castle, presumably to be a surprise. If everyone saw TIEs and landing craft approaching the castle, there would be immediate pandemonium, but with just the distant Star Destroyer, it’s a bit more believable that there would be a few moments of relative calm beforehand.

In my opinion, the continuity is this: The Star Destroyer enters the system and launches attack crafts before it becomes visible to the castle, and only appears overhead moments before the attack group as a safeguard against escape.

JEDIT: In my ideal version, Finn looks up to see an escaping ship destroyed with lasers, but the source of the lasers is hidden behind the clouds. Then we just start to see the ship come out of the haze and cloud (and possibly the smoke of the explosion) as Finn says that ‘It’s the First Order, they’ve done it!’

That Would be amazing.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

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@Jackpumpkinhead:

I didn’t see your second post when I commented on your latest video, so what I said probably felt out of place… Anyway, as I said, I don’t think the additional TIEs would have been necessary but I like their addition. Great work 😃

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NeverarGreat said:

https://vimeo.com/165767941

Viewing this again, it looks to me like the ships arrive from the other side of the forest, which is why they’re skimming the trees where Rey is hiding. I’d suggest giving some more movement to the Star Destroyer, as it is entering the frame from right to left. There’s no need to show the individual fighters and landing craft, since they are all shown later to be traveling fairly horizontally over the forest to the castle, presumably to be a surprise. If everyone saw TIEs and landing craft approaching the castle, there would be immediate pandemonium, but with just the distant Star Destroyer, it’s a bit more believable that there would be a few moments of relative calm beforehand.

In my opinion, the continuity is this: The Star Destroyer enters the system and launches attack crafts before it becomes visible to the castle, and only appears overhead moments before the attack group as a safeguard against escape.

JEDIT: In my ideal version, Finn looks up to see an escaping ship destroyed with lasers, but the source of the lasers is hidden behind the clouds. Then we just start to see the ship come out of the haze and cloud (and possibly the smoke of the explosion) as Finn says that ‘It’s the First Order, they’ve done it!’

to do this you would almost have to show a ship leaving as finn is packing up and then an explosion sound then cut to finn looking up and seeing the explosion and through the smoke the ties and the transports heading towards the castle, then cut to Han seeing the last bit of the explosion and the ties a bit closer.
i believe a bit of suspended disbelief is involved with this sort of edit

“You can’t polish a turd. But you can shape it to look like candy.”

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NeverarGreat said:

https://vimeo.com/165767941

Viewing this again, it looks to me like the ships arrive from the other side of the forest, which is why they’re skimming the trees where Rey is hiding. I’d suggest giving some more movement to the Star Destroyer, as it is entering the frame from right to left. There’s no need to show the individual fighters and landing craft, since they are all shown later to be traveling fairly horizontally over the forest to the castle, presumably to be a surprise. If everyone saw TIEs and landing craft approaching the castle, there would be immediate pandemonium, but with just the distant Star Destroyer, it’s a bit more believable that there would be a few moments of relative calm beforehand.

In my opinion, the continuity is this: The Star Destroyer enters the system and launches attack crafts before it becomes visible to the castle, and only appears overhead moments before the attack group as a safeguard against escape.

JEDIT: In my ideal version, Finn looks up to see an escaping ship destroyed with lasers, but the source of the lasers is hidden behind the clouds. Then we just start to see the ship come out of the haze and cloud (and possibly the smoke of the explosion) as Finn says that ‘It’s the First Order, they’ve done it!’

so how about somthing like this

https://youtu.be/PKHd7Yq-ux4

“You can’t polish a turd. But you can shape it to look like candy.”

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I was thinking more along the lines of a single large explosion taking up perhaps 1/8th of the sky. For that to work it really does need an establishing shot of a ship leaving Maz’s castle, then cutting to Finn boarding the transport as the explosion happens, then he turns and sees the debris in the sky, with the star destroyer just entering the frame from the right.

One thing that I didn’t consider was that Finn asks ‘Where’s Rey?’, and in this sequence of events it might imply that Finn feared that she was on the destroyed ship.

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NeverarGreat said:

I was thinking more along the lines of a single large explosion taking up perhaps 1/8th of the sky. For that to work it really does need an establishing shot of a ship leaving Maz’s castle, then cutting to Finn boarding the transport as the explosion happens, then he turns and sees the debris in the sky, with the star destroyer just entering the frame from the right.

One thing that I didn’t consider was that Finn asks ‘Where’s Rey?’, and in this sequence of events it might imply that Finn feared that she was on the destroyed ship.

yeah, i understand. however, there is no way i could do an establishing shot that would look good enough to fit in with the rest of the film. i think that if i did, it would come off as to “Prequelly” you know. this is really just a compromise. you still get to see the ties fire on some unsuspecting ships which gives an explanation as to why Finn says “It’s the first order, they’ve done it”.

as far as the star destroyer moving in from the right, this could be done. but with it being so far away and also very large, i think it would make it look as though the star destroyer was moving at break-neck speed in the atmosphere. idk, just my thoughts on it.

“You can’t polish a turd. But you can shape it to look like candy.”

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I started a new job (career, really) and so haven’t had nearly as much free time and mental energy to spend here.
But, does anyone know any foley effects that would fit in well for the people at Maz’s when they react to the looming TIES and Star Destroyer? Not mass panic, just a commotion enough for Fin to turn around.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Here’s a clip showing all the necessary changes to pull this off.
https://vimeo.com/170400167

For the clip with Finn and the TIEs, I used the most recent in-progress FX shots from Jackpumpkinhead, so these aren’t nailed down yet. For the audio, I couldn’t find a selection of music that fit in better than what was already there, since it would need to fade back into the music that ends the scene and begins the next. I just brought the sound down so you could hear the TIEs, and not feel like the music was too dramatic for what was onscreen.

Please, register feedback so we can improve what’s here.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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The shot would have to be played in reverse, having the camera pull back from a closeup, to match the downward movement of the star trail.
I will do a mockup so we can see what we think.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Still very interesting. The music cuts are pretty noticeable to me though. Not significantly moreso than in many prequel edits but for some reason it bothers me more here.

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I really wish I had my copy of TFA to examine, but alas, I have lent it to my parents.

Anyway, it makes very little sense for Han and Chewie to gaze up at a Star Destroyer with approaching fighters and not at least attempt to get to the Falcon. Even my previous suggestion of just showing the star destroyer/destroyer behind an exploding ship makes no sense from this perspective.

I propose a more radical series of events. When our heroes first arrive at Maz’s castle, the First Order spy could report to Kylo Ren, and then we cut to an unused shot of him (perhaps the one cut where he’s on the Star Destroyer viewing the superlaser) and overlay some new dialogue where he orders the spy to plant a thermal detonator on the first ship scheduled to leave the castle. It would be better if Hux were to say this since he doesn’t care if BB-8 is destroyed, but Kylo has the advantage of a mask and a muffled voice. This provides some tension during the ensuing scenes. The exploding ship never has to be seen, just the sound of a ship taking off and its destruction during Finn’s entry onto the transport, causing him to turn around. Then the rest of the scenes can happen pretty much as structured.

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Hal 9000 said:

Any specific music craps that stick out?

particular the cut from Han’s death to the starkiller base blowing everything up. I expected the track to continue seamlessly because those two scenes use essentially the same theme, but it actually felt kind of abrupt.

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Here’s a potential bit of restructuring that can help the removal of the cutaway to the Resistance HQ feel more organic.
https://vimeo.com/170889793
After Han is killed and Hosnian Prime is destroyed, Kylo Ren starts to hobble toward Finn and Rey, who begin to run away. Cut to the areal dogfight, and a pilot notes that they now have a chance to infiltrate the oscillator. Cut back to Finn and Rey making for the Falcon and encountering Kylo Ren. After Rey and Kylo begin to fight, cut to the X-wings descending toward the trench.

This would bump the pilots noticing the damaged oscillator up to right after it happens, and cover an otherwise awkward cut.

Also, there’s a quick cutaway during the trench run to Hux being informed the base is almost ready to fire. But, that’s easily removed.

EDIT: Also, also, I believe this project of ours will end up removing all mention of Hosnian Prime by name. Not a big deal, just a note. It was super easy to miss as it was anyway, and this wouldn’t affect the plot. People will be more apt to mistake it for Coruscant, which it is the functional equivalent of.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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In all honesty the audience assuming it is Coruscant makes more sense and has more of an impact for someone watching 7 after 1-6 (your edits for 1-3 of course!). Really really hyped for the Hal9000 treatment on 7.

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Hal 9000 said:

Here’s a clip showing all the necessary changes to pull this off.
https://vimeo.com/170400167

For the clip with Finn and the TIEs, I used the most recent in-progress FX shots from Jackpumpkinhead, so these aren’t nailed down yet. For the audio, I couldn’t find a selection of music that fit in better than what was already there, since it would need to fade back into the music that ends the scene and begins the next. I just brought the sound down so you could hear the TIEs, and not feel like the music was too dramatic for what was onscreen.

Please, register feedback so we can improve what’s here.

Just watched all the edits (and your newer video), so here’s my feedback:

The music in the TIE scene is fine, but I think the TIEs themselves are too loud and the crowd is not loud enough.

In the scene where Hux reports that the weapon is ready and is instructed to prepare it, it sounds like their target is the Resistance since they only refer to their target as “them” and not as “the Republic”. Not sure how this can be improved but I think it should be made clearer than it is at the moment.

If I may ask: What was changed in the briefing scene and the next one?

And in the latest video the music cut after “Give it everything you got” is quite noticeable.

Everything else seems fine but there is another scene that needs work I think: The SKB explosion and Resistance fleet leaving scene. The music and pilot reactions are too happy for the restructured plot. The latter can be cut but I fear this scene needs new music which might be quite hard to pull off.

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Kexikus said:

The music in the TIE scene is fine, but I think the TIEs themselves are too loud and the crowd is not loud enough.

Not a problem, especially since there’ll be no music replacement anyway.

In the scene where Hux reports that the weapon is ready and is instructed to prepare it, it sounds like their target is the Resistance since they only refer to their target as “them” and not as “the Republic”. Not sure how this can be improved but I think it should be made clearer than it is at the moment.

The problem is that difficult (probably impossible) FX work would be required to be able to keep the dialogue about targeting the Republic specifically. My thinking is that by not naming anyone, it telegraphs to the audience that their target is understood. Later, we get a Hitler speech making it clear what the target is.

If I may ask: What was changed in the briefing scene and the next one?

Removing tiny bits of dialogue leftovers. When Finn meets Leia, removed reference to “the weapon that destroyed the Hosnian system,” and during the briefing, removed exposition that SKB is now targeting the Resistance base.

And in the latest video the music cut after “Give it everything you got” is quite noticeable.

Yes. Structurally, I think this reordering is a very good thing. But, there is no wiggle room on either side to allow much crossfading. I will experiment with using the soundtrack to buffer it, if I can.

Everything else seems fine but there is another scene that needs work I think: The SKB explosion and Resistance fleet leaving scene. The music and pilot reactions are too happy for the restructured plot. The latter can be cut but I fear this scene needs new music which might be quite hard to pull off.

Yeah, and that might have to be chalked up to artistic Star Wars license, to have them be happy when perhaps they should be more somber. After all, in TFA no one appears to give a shit after the Republic capital is obliterated; Leia seems almost bored, Poe is happy as can be, and it comes off as a minor fringe attack.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

Kexikus said:
And in the latest video the music cut after “Give it everything you got” is quite noticeable.

Yes. Structurally, I think this reordering is a very good thing. But, there is no wiggle room on either side to allow much crossfading. I will experiment with using the soundtrack to buffer it, if I can.

Worth noting that the part of the soundtrack that plays during this portion (with the X-wings before the trench run) is found in the For Your Consideration tracks on “The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 1” at around 2:49. Shouldn’t be too hard to let that bit play out as you cut to Rey and Finn and try to transition there.

By the way, anyone editing this movie should absolutely have the original soundtrack and the FYC tracks. Or really just everyone should have them - this score is amazing!

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 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

Here’s a potential bit of restructuring that can help the removal of the cutaway to the Resistance HQ feel more organic.
https://vimeo.com/170889793
After Han is killed and Hosnian Prime is destroyed, Kylo Ren starts to hobble toward Finn and Rey, who begin to run away. Cut to the areal dogfight, and a pilot notes that they now have a chance to infiltrate the oscillator. Cut back to Finn and Rey making for the Falcon and encountering Kylo Ren. After Rey and Kylo begin to fight, cut to the X-wings descending toward the trench.

This would bump the pilots noticing the damaged oscillator up to right after it happens, and cover an otherwise awkward cut.

Also, there’s a quick cutaway during the trench run to Hux being informed the base is almost ready to fire. But, that’s easily removed.

Very nice work once again Hal 9000. This is big improvement over the way 'Noodle_Finger’s edit did things, where he merely just removed the ‘cutaway’ to the brief Resistance HQ scene…leaving the join between the ‘Rey & Finn turning to leave’ shot and the ‘Rey & Finn scrambling into the forest with explosions behind them’ shot looking like too much of a rough ‘jump-ahead-in-time’ edit.

Your notion to split up the ‘X-wing dogfight’ sequence and place part of it in-between those 2 particular ‘Rey & Finn’ shots definately works well, and lets things breathe a lot better now.

I’d settled on something similar, although I have a slightly different structure in mind for myself you might be interested to hear -

It would be the same as you’ve shown in your clip, except that I’m planning cutting at the END of the shot in the ‘dogfight’ when we see the distant explosion on the planet’s surface as Poe’s voice says “Looks like our friends got in”

…THEN I’m going to the ‘Finn & Rey scrambling into the forest with explosions behind them’ shot at this point, as we continue with Finn getting beaten by Kylo, and then cut as Kylo & Rey clash lightsabres as normal…

…and I’m intending to return to the ‘dogfight’ at this point like yourself, EXCEPT I’m starting with the close-up of Poe saying “Red Four, Red Six…cover us!” instead, as the pilots respond, and he continues saying “Everybody else, hit the target hard and give it everything you’ve got”, before they then go on to dive downwards towards the oscillator trench.