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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 60

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They never actually act like friends. Instead Anakin goes on about saving Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan denies it. They have the absolute worst on-screen chemistry of all time. ANH at least makes it seem like Vader and Obi-Wan really were good friends but the PT fails at actually showing it. It doesn’t help that the lightsaber fight is so long that it gets boring and many of the camera angles are too close to even see what’s going on in the over-choreographed battle. The climax of ROTS fails in many respects, there’s no point in even arguing that it’s good. I suggest looking up “Plinkett” on google Scott.

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Scott109 said:

Dueling with a life-long friend is a more emotionally grueling experience than dueling with a long-lost father with whom you have never had a relationship.

They were friends? It never seemed that way.

I always got the sense that they were friends. I think the central problem with the prequel trilogy - other than Jar Jar - is the fact that George Lucas gave what was supposed to be Obi-Wan’s role to Qui-Gon in Episode I, which should have clearly established Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship.

It is still evident that they are friends from the scene in the elevator in Episode II, the clone wars series, and the beginning of Episode III. It is important to remember that Obi-Wan never heard Anakin speaking negatively of him to Padmé, so from Obi-Wan’s perspective they were definitely friends even if they fought at times.

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Scott109 said:

It is still evident that they are friends from the scene in the elevator in Episode II,

This scene showcases Lucas’s inability to understand one of the fundamental ideas of filmmaking: show, don’t tell.

It isn’t effective to have them TALKING about adventures they had and what great friends they are. We need to see them actually acting like friends within the context of the film. One minute in the elevator at the very beginning where they might as well be looking into the camera and saying “Hey guys, we’re friends!” and then having them acting like a bitter couple the entire rest of the story does not work.

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Smithers said:

They never actually act like friends. Instead Anakin goes on about saving Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan denies it. They have the absolute worst on-screen chemistry of all time. ANH at least makes it seem like Vader and Obi-Wan really were good friends but the PT fails at actually showing it.

If you watch The Clone Wars animated series, you will see that they actually were good friends.

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Yes, but The Clone Wars is not the prequels.

Not enough people read the EU.

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Windows7Guy100 said:

Smithers said:

They never actually act like friends. Instead Anakin goes on about saving Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan denies it. They have the absolute worst on-screen chemistry of all time. ANH at least makes it seem like Vader and Obi-Wan really were good friends but the PT fails at actually showing it.

If you watch The Clone Wars animated series, you will see that they actually were good friends.

It doesn’t excuse how poorly the characters were handled in the film itself.

I shouldn’t have to wait years after the fact and then watch five seasons of a tv show just to understand the dynamic between characters that should have just been done better to begin with.

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ray_afraid said:

^ Yes! I don’t wanna have to watch a kids show (a very silly one from what I’ve seen of it) to understand what’s supposed to be happening in a series of films.

The Clone Wars actually turned into a pretty interesting show. Got off to a rocky start, but developed nicely.

That being said, my original point still stands that it shouldn’t be required viewing. TV shows, comic books, novels, all that should be supplemental. You shouldn’t feel like you’re missing anything within the films themselves by avoiding them.

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Smithers said:

They never actually act like friends. Instead Anakin goes on about saving Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan denies it. They have the absolute worst on-screen chemistry of all time. ANH at least makes it seem like Vader and Obi-Wan really were good friends but the PT fails at actually showing it. It doesn’t help that the lightsaber fight is so long that it gets boring and many of the camera angles are too close to even see what’s going on in the over-choreographed battle. The climax of ROTS fails in many respects, there’s no point in even arguing that it’s good. I suggest looking up “Plinkett” on google Scott.

In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin says he saved Obi-Wan’s life ten times. Obi-Wan says it was only nine times and that the instance on Cato Neimoidia did not count. That is not the same thing as Obi-Wan denying that Anakin saved his life multiple times.

Over-choreographed? How is that possible? I actually prefer the lightsaber duels in the prequels to the lightsaber duels in the original trilogy. At least in the prequels the characters actually look like trained warriors and not like little boys playing with toy swords. The only lightsaber duel in the original trilogy that even had any real choreography was the duel on Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back.

I find it extremely irritating when characters constantly pause in the middle of sword fights in order to speak. When characters focus more on speaking than on actually fighting, the duel becomes unrealistic. Anyone in a life-or-death duel who focuses more on speaking than on fighting frankly deserves to die.

Plinkett is not intelligent enough to review any film. He seems not to understand irony, sarcasm, or comic relief. For example, he criticized Obi-Wan’s tongue-in-cheek line “Another happy landing” in Revenge of the Sith because it was not a happy landing. No kidding. That was the entire point of the line. Anybody who is not intelligent enough to understand irony is not intelligent enough to review a film.

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Scott109 said:

Over-choreographed? How is that possible? I actually prefer the lightsaber duels in the prequels to the lightsaber duels in the original trilogy. At least in the prequels the characters actually look like trained warriors and not like little boys playing with toy swords. The only lightsaber duel in the original trilogy that even had any real choreography was the duel on Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back.

I find it extremely irritating when characters constantly pause in the middle of sword fights in order to speak. When characters focus more on speaking than on actually fighting, the duel becomes unrealistic. Anyone in a life-or-death duel who focuses more on speaking than on fighting frankly deserves to die.

Why are you even on this site? I’m not even going to argue this with you just look up “Plinkett” on youtube and all the things you like about the PT will be ripped to shreds.

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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Smithers said:

Scott109 said:

Over-choreographed? How is that possible? I actually prefer the lightsaber duels in the prequels to the lightsaber duels in the original trilogy. At least in the prequels the characters actually look like trained warriors and not like little boys playing with toy swords. The only lightsaber duel in the original trilogy that even had any real choreography was the duel on Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back.

I find it extremely irritating when characters constantly pause in the middle of sword fights in order to speak. When characters focus more on speaking than on actually fighting, the duel becomes unrealistic. Anyone in a life-or-death duel who focuses more on speaking than on fighting frankly deserves to die.

Why are you even on this site? I’m not even going to argue this with you just look up “Plinkett” on youtube and all the things you like about the PT will be ripped to shreds.

I watched Plinkett on Youtube. I disagree with him. Frankly, I question his intelligence as well.

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Scott109 said:

I find it extremely irritating when characters constantly pause in the middle of sword fights in order to speak. When characters focus more on speaking than on actually fighting, the duel becomes unrealistic. Anyone in a life-or-death duel who focuses more on speaking than on fighting frankly deserves to die.

Who cares if it’s realistic? It’s about drama and character development. If there’s no interaction between the characters then it’s just a meaningless, dragged out fight.

What’s great about the duels in the OT is that they weren’t just acrobatic fluff. They were about the characters and their conflicts. The talking is necessary because it adds drama.

If you were fighting with someone close to you and there was a lot of history and emotion behind the fight, you bet your ass you would be talking during the fight. It would be weird for them not to talk. Could you imagine if there was no talking at all during the ROTJ duel. You would lose so many great character moments and completely suck the drama out of it.

Character development is more important than flashy spectacle.

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I will agree that the duels in the PT may be more visually stimulating and appealing, but in terms of characterization and emotion, the OT duels are way ahead of anything in the PT.

Without any character development or emotion, the flashy fights become boring and moot.

If I can skip everything but the last minute of the fight and not miss anything important to the story, then it is a failure as a scene.

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My problem with the lightsaber duels in the PT is seeing everyone swinging for each other’s lightsabers all the time, instead of their bodies. Sure, the choreography was very well-practiced, but that was the problem.

A real lightsaber fight wouldn’t be practiced in advance. It would be spontaneous. They shouldn’t know where to swing for EVERY move, before it even happens. In my opinion, that reduces the impact of even having a lightsaber.

And they whipped them out for every little thing. In the OT, when a lightsaber was drawn, the room got quiet. In the PT, it was every other scene. I get that it was a different time period, but I don’t care for that excuse. If Lucas had simply limited the amount of time you saw a lightsaber in the PT, he wouldn’t even have to write a spectacular scene for those moments. You would immediately feel excitement from the sight of the lightsaber. If Obi-Wan had never used his lightsaber until the fight with Darth Maul in Episode I, the scene would have been infinitely more impactful with the exact same shots.

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Darth Lucas said:

I will agree that the duels in the PT may be more visually stimulating and appealing, but in terms of characterization and emotion, the OT duels are way ahead of anything in the PT.

Without any character development or emotion, the flashy fights become boring and moot.

If I can skip everything but the last minute of the fight and not miss anything important to the story, then it is a failure as a scene.

This is a legitimate criticism. The lightsaber duels in the Original Trilogy definitely contributed more to the character arcs.

Admittedly, other than Qui-Gon’s dying wish that Obi-Wan train Anakin, Mace Windu’s duel with Palpatine, and the entire duel on Mustafar, most of the lightsaber duels in the prequel trilogy were less emotionally powerful than in the original trilogy even if they made more tactical sense.

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My one request for the revisited prequel trilogy would be to find a way to completely remove Jar Jar Binks from all the scenes on Tatooine and from Episodes II and III.

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Sheepish said:

And they whipped them out for every little thing. In the OT, when a lightsaber was drawn, the room got quiet. In the PT, it was every other scene. I get that it was a different time period, but I don’t care for that excuse. If Lucas had simply limited the amount of time you saw a lightsaber in the PT, he wouldn’t even have to write a spectacular scene for those moments. You would immediately feel excitement from the sight of the lightsaber. If Obi-Wan had never used his lightsaber until the fight with Darth Maul in Episode I, the scene would have been infinitely more impactful with the exact same shots.

This is very true, the lightsaber is a tool to convey the drama in a scene. It is less of a visual distraction than it is a way to make an emotional scene more interesting. It shows a characters anger or fear when they draw it.

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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Darth Lucas said:

I will agree that the duels in the PT may be more visually stimulating and appealing, but in terms of characterization and emotion, the OT duels are way ahead of anything in the PT.

I don’t see how Dooku and Hayden spinning coloured glowsticks above their heads in extreme closeup, CGI Yoda bouncing around like a constipated frog, CGI Palpatine leaping off the walls, or Obi-Wan and Hayden twirling their lightsabers around like synchronized baton twirlers could ever be considered visually stimulating, let alone appealing.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Darth Lucas said:

I will agree that the duels in the PT may be more visually stimulating and appealing, but in terms of characterization and emotion, the OT duels are way ahead of anything in the PT.

I don’t see how Dooku and Hayden spinning coloured glowsticks above their heads in extreme closeup, CGI Yoda bouncing around like a constipated frog, CGI Palpatine leaping off the walls, or Obi-Wan and Hayden twirling their lightsabers around like synchronized baton twirlers could ever be considered visually stimulating, let alone appealing.

What I meant by that is just that they’re just more flashy. Visual stimulation with no substance. I’m not defending them. Quite the opposite.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

I don’t see how Dooku and Hayden spinning coloured glowsticks above their heads in extreme closeup, CGI Yoda bouncing around like a constipated frog, CGI Palpatine leaping off the walls, or Obi-Wan and Hayden twirling their lightsabers around like synchronized baton twirlers could ever be considered visually stimulating, let alone appealing.

+1

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Darth Lucas said:

I will agree that the duels in the PT may be more visually stimulating and appealing, but in terms of characterization and emotion, the OT duels are way ahead of anything in the PT.

I don’t see how Dooku and Hayden spinning coloured glowsticks above their heads in extreme closeup, CGI Yoda bouncing around like a constipated frog, CGI Palpatine leaping off the walls, or Obi-Wan and Hayden twirling their lightsabers around like synchronized baton twirlers could ever be considered visually stimulating, let alone appealing.

Other than Yoda’s lightsaber duels, all of the lightsaber duels in the prequels were brilliant.

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Sheepish said:

My problem with the lightsaber duels in the PT is seeing everyone swinging for each other’s lightsabers all the time, instead of their bodies. Sure, the choreography was very well-practiced, but that was the problem.

A real lightsaber fight wouldn’t be practiced in advance. It would be spontaneous. They shouldn’t know where to swing for EVERY move, before it even happens. In my opinion, that reduces the impact of even having a lightsaber.

And they whipped them out for every little thing. In the OT, when a lightsaber was drawn, the room got quiet. In the PT, it was every other scene. I get that it was a different time period, but I don’t care for that excuse. If Lucas had simply limited the amount of time you saw a lightsaber in the PT, he wouldn’t even have to write a spectacular scene for those moments. You would immediately feel excitement from the sight of the lightsaber. If Obi-Wan had never used his lightsaber until the fight with Darth Maul in Episode I, the scene would have been infinitely more impactful [sic] with the exact same shots.

I always thought that the Jedi were supposed to use the Force to anticipate the next moves of their adversaries, so it is not supposed to look spontaneous.

Considering that the lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi Knight, I am not sure why you would want less screen time dedicated to Jedi Knights using lightsabers. Surely you would not want for them to use blasters instead.